Amanda Knox New Motivation Report RE: Meredith Kercher Murder #1 *new trial ordered*

[Perodicticus potto]

Your link does not say anything about the time food stays in the duodenum. It is not only the first part of the intestines, it is also a very small part and therefore it only makes sense that it doesn't stay there very long.

Like so many things, this "only makes sense" at first glance, but doesn't once you know the whole story.

First of all, food doesn't fall straight through the duodenum like a kid through a water slide. The emptying of the duodenum into the jejunum coordinates with the emptying of the stomach into the duodenum, which in turn is strictly regulated by hormones that are produced by the duodenum itself. One part will empty into the next only when the right stage of digestion is reached.

Secondly, while the duodenum may be relatively small in length, it is lined with projections called villi that greatly increase its surface area.

And thirdly, there is one heck of a lot going on in that space. Much of the digestion that we superficially think of as occurring in the "stomach" actually occurs in the duodenum. It is the main site where proteins, fats and carbohydrates are broken down into their component amino acids, fatty acids and monosaccharides, using secretions from the liver, the pancreas and the duodenum itself.

There is no single answer for how long food stays in the duodenum, because it depends on the amount and composition of the food -- also, different components of the same food will not necessarily travel through the digestive system at the same rate. But it is not a lightning-quick process.

 

[Ebbiguise]

Like so many things, this "only makes sense" at first glance, but doesn't once you know the whole story.

First of all, food doesn't fall straight through the duodenum like a kid through a water slide. The emptying of the duodenum into the jejunum coordinates with the emptying of the stomach into the duodenum, which in turn is strictly regulated by hormones that are produced by the duodenum itself. One part will empty into the next only when the right stage of digestion is reached.

Secondly, while the duodenum may be relatively small in length, it is lined with projections called villi that greatly increase its surface area.

And thirdly, there is one heck of a lot going on in that space. Much of the digestion that we superficially think of as occurring in the "stomach" actually occurs in the duodenum. It is the main site where proteins, fats and carbohydrates are broken down into their component amino acids, fatty acids and monosaccharides, using secretions from the liver and pancreas.

There is no single answer for how long food stays in the duodenum, because it depends on the amount and composition of the food -- also, different components of the same food will not necessarily travel through the digestive system at the same rate. But it is not a lightning-quick process.

Is it possible that it took over 2.5 hours for her stomach to start moving food into her duodenum?

Is this scientifically even possible?

 

[Perodicticus potto]

Is it possible that it took over 2.5 hours for her stomach to start moving food into her duodenum?

Is this scientifically even possible?

Well, strictly speaking the stomach doesn't move food into the duodenum; it's the duodenum that controls the process. But anyway, if the meal had large amounts of fat and protein, then gastric emptying could certainly have been quite slow. I'm afraid I can't say exactly how slow, though.

 

[Perodicticus potto]

It doesn`t say that stomach contents is unreliable in determining time of death only when applied to the Nicole Simpson murder, only when argued by medical experts, or only when the stomach contents are a particular stage of digestion.

Er ... and neither did I. :waitasec:

You know the stomach is just one part of the digestive system, right? We have been talking about duodenal contents, not stomach contents.

 

[Ebbiguise]

Well, strictly speaking the stomach doesn't move food into the duodenum; it's the duodenum that controls the process. But anyway, if the meal had large amounts of fat and protein, then gastric emptying could certainly have been quite slow. I'm afraid I can't say exactly how slow, though.

ha, yea I meant stomach contents starting to move into the duodenum

 

[otto]

Of course you do now. Your previous talking point turned out to be completely false.

One of the people that helped break down the door was behind the police officer when the officer lifted the duvet from Meredith's head. I'm not convinced that this explains Knox's knowledge of how Meredith died.

 

[otto]

Er ... and neither did I. :waitasec:

You know the stomach is just one part of the digestive system, right? We have been talking about duodenal contents, not stomach contents.

I guess I completely misunderstood. I understood that the discussion was about the stomach contents, and that there was an attempt to pinpoint the time of death based when, and what, someone ate. If this is about the something other than what Meredith ate and when she ate it, then of course the discussion is unrelated to stomach contents.

Is there some information (a link?) about duodenal contents, unrelated to stomach contents, that indicates time of death?

 

[Malkmus]

One of the people that helped break down the door was behind the police officer when the officer lifted the duvet from Meredith's head. I'm not convinced that this explains Knox's knowledge of how Meredith died.

Luca testified that he told Amanda and Rafaelle in the car ride to the police that Meredith had her throat slit. Raf asked if it was with a knife. What don't you get?

 

[otto]

Luca testified that he told Amanda and Rafaelle in the car ride to the police that Meredith had her throat slit. Raf asked if it was with a knife. What don't you get?

The source:

"John Follain is the Rome correspondent for The Sunday Times and this book is a mixture of his own interviews and the publicly available material. It brings together as much of the story as we know, beginning with Knox and Kercher’s arrival in Perugia and ending with Knox’s flight home to Seattle.

...

It’s unlikely that Death in Perugia is the “definitive account”, as it claims on the cover. But it does a good job of reminding us that amid the reams of print and reel are human lives; some innocent and some guilty, but all irreparably disfigured by this horribly sad story. "

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...746/Death-in-Perugia-John-Follain-review.html

 

[Malkmus]

The source:

"John Follain is the Rome correspondent for The Sunday Times and this book is a mixture of his own interviews and the publicly available material. It brings together as much of the story as we know, beginning with Knox and Kercher’s arrival in Perugia and ending with Knox’s flight home to Seattle.

...

It’s unlikely that Death in Perugia is the “definitive account”, as it claims on the cover. But it does a good job of reminding us that amid the reams of print and reel are human lives; some innocent and some guilty, but all irreparably disfigured by this horribly sad story. "

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...746/Death-in-Perugia-John-Follain-review.html

No idea what point you're trying to make. Does it have something to do with Luca's testimony?

 

[otto]

Even if Knox is convicted this time around, it is unlikely she will ever come back to Italy. There is a valid extradition agreement between the two nations, but the U.S. has not set much of a precedence in returning suspects for such matters. In 1998, an American fighter jet clipped a ski lift cable sending a gondola of 20 passengers to their death in the Italian Dolomite mountain range.

Italy had requested their extradition to try them for multiple manslaughter, but the U.S. refused and tried them in a military tribunal instead. They were found not guilty.

And in 2012, Italy's high court upheld the conviction of 22 CIA agents and an Air Force colonel in conjunction with the extraordinary rendition of Egyptian cleric Abu Omar from a street in Milan. Again, the U.S. refused to comply with the extradition order. Both previous high-profile cases involved state employees or military members. Knox's case is a private matter with very little precedence.

http://www.edition.cnn.com/2013/03/...nda-knox-analysis-nadeau/index.html?hpt=hp_c3

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is the implication that although Knox may well be guilty of murder, and she may well have her conviction affirmed, she should not have to serve a prison sentence because during one stage of the trial, she was released from prison due to an overturned appeal ruling?

 

[Ebbiguise]

It is suggesting that the U.S more then likely would not get involved and force extradition.

She then would never be able to travel anywhere outside of the U.S for fear of being detained if she does.

 

[jjenny]

It is suggesting that the U.S more then likely would not get involved and force extradition.

She then would never be able to travel anywhere outside of the U.S for fear of being detained if she does.

A lot of people living in US manage not to travel outside of it and don't consider it too much of a hardship.

 

[Ebbiguise]

Right, I wasn't implying anything....just stating the obvious perhaps.

If the U.S doesn't do anything, setting foot in any other country might be problematic since she will basically be a wanted person.

 

[otto]

Right, I wasn't implying anything....just stating the obvious perhaps.

If the U.S doesn't do anything, setting foot in any other country might be problematic since she will basically be a wanted person.

She already has travel restrictions based on her other conviction and jail time. If her murder conviction is affirmed, then she should serve out her sentence. That seems like a no-brainer, yet based on comments here, I get the impression that people believe that Knox shouldn't have to suffer the consequences for murder if the murder is in a country with a different legal system. That's a scary thought.

 

[Ebbiguise]

I get the impression that people believe that Knox shouldn't have to suffer the consequences for murder if the murder is in a country with a different legal system. That's a scary thought.

Who said this?

I haven't analyzed every comment, but people are simply saying that the U.S government more then likely will not extradite here, and they are saying this based on previous cases.

This does not imply people agree this should be the case, there is simply a lot of speculation on if this will happen (extradition or not).

 

[sherlockh]

Like so many things, this "only makes sense" at first glance, but doesn't once you know the whole story.

First of all, food doesn't fall straight through the duodenum like a kid through a water slide. The emptying of the duodenum into the jejunum coordinates with the emptying of the stomach into the duodenum, which in turn is strictly regulated by hormones that are produced by the duodenum itself. One part will empty into the next only when the right stage of digestion is reached.

Secondly, while the duodenum may be relatively small in length, it is lined with projections called villi that greatly increase its surface area.

And thirdly, there is one heck of a lot going on in that space. Much of the digestion that we superficially think of as occurring in the "stomach" actually occurs in the duodenum. It is the main site where proteins, fats and carbohydrates are broken down into their component amino acids, fatty acids and monosaccharides, using secretions from the liver, the pancreas and the duodenum itself.

There is no single answer for how long food stays in the duodenum, because it depends on the amount and composition of the food -- also, different components of the same food will not necessarily travel through the digestive system at the same rate. But it is not a lightning-quick process.

The theory was supposed to proof that Meredith died right after 9pm. Saying that there is no single answer then how can this be called proof? We don't even know how much Meredith ate. The coroner gave 2-3 hours for the stomach to empty, and there is 4-5 hours from the moment Meredith ate. Is 4-5 hours enough for a slice of pizza to have emptied from the stomach and passed the duodenum? The sources say that this is not unreasonable at all.

On the other hand, the sources say that a gastric emptying delay of 3 hours is very unlikely unless Meredith had a medical problem or was very stressed for example. When something is very unlikely opposed to the alternative being normal then why is this theory even still mentioned? I doubt we will hear from it during the appeal trial, but we will see.

 

[believe09]

I apologize if this article is already in the thread-I read it this morning:

TIME LINK KNOX HATERS

snip

When Italy‘s highest court reversed the acquittal of Amanda Knox and ex-boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito this week, a small cottage industry on the internet began grinding back into high gear. Actually it has never had a down day: the Knox-hating websites have been passing along innuendo and cherry-picked factoids for six years now.

and

In my opinion, the new panel will agree with the last one that the case against the students is fatally flawed. I could, of course be wrong. In the eyes of the Knox-haters, I will always be wrong. But another shoe is also about to drop: Harper Collins plans to bring out Amanda Knox’s own book next month. For the company, which paid a reported $4 million for the memoir, the timing cannot be more perfect.

 

[otto]

Who said this?

I haven't analyzed every comment, but people are simply saying that the U.S government more then likely will not extradite here, and they are saying this based on previous cases.

This does not imply people agree this should be the case, there is simply a lot of speculation on if this will happen (extradition or not).

Previous cases do not confirm that the government will not extradite someone convicted of murder, quite the opposite in fact.

"Other defendants who have been acquitted in other countries and then convicted on appeal have attempted to raise the double jeopardy principle to avoid extradition, without much success, said Mary Fan, a law professor at the University of Washington who specializes in cross-border criminal law.

While the issue is rare in the United States, several courts have rejected the double jeopardy argument in similar cases. In 2010, a federal court in California found that a man who was acquitted of murder in Mexico and later convicted after prosecutors appealed the acquittal, could not claim double jeopardy to avoid extradition to Mexico. That court cited a 1974 decision from the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in New York, that reached the same conclusion with respect to Canadian law, which also allows the government to appeal an acquittal"

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/03/27/uk-italy-knox-extradition-idUKBRE92Q01620130327

 

[otto]

I apologize if this article is already in the thread-I read it this morning:

TIME LINK KNOX HATERS

snip

and

A witch? Superstitious alleys of Perugia? Cultish? That reminds me of the early comments made by the Knox/Mellas family claiming that Italy was a backwards medieval town. Where did the witch/cult/supersticious stuff come from? The first I recall is from Doug Preston, an author that had a run in with Perugia officials for interfering with a murder investigation. Preston was researching a book, but in doing so he got a little too close to the investigation. When he was questioned about his activities surrounding the investigation, he was very upset. He retaliated by accusing investigators of consulting with superstitious, cultish, witch-types to solve murders.

Time Magazine used to be about news, but today we see an article that does little more than criticize the administrators of forums using complaints made by an author that was upset after being interviewed by police for interfering with a murder investigation.

"In the sexist media world we inhabit, though, a pretty girl wrongly accused of a heinous crime can’t be just a jerk, she’s got to be a murderess or, in the superstitious alleys of Perugia, a witch.

...

Given the notoriety of the case, and the fact that so many Italians still believe the original prosecutor’s theory that Kercher died in a cultish sex-game gone wrong, the high court may merely be applying an extra layer of judicial safeguard."

http://world.time.com/2013/03/29/th...ow-they-learned-to-hate-me-too/#ixzz2OviCRXao