Nova
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Except for the birthday, the same may be said of almost everyone accused of killing with a knife.
Amanda Knox New Motivation Report RE: Meredith Kercher Murder #1 *new trial ordered*
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Except for the birthday, the same may be said of almost everyone accused of killing with a knife.
Nova
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If what you say is true, that interpretations of evidence in Guede's trial are now binding on Knox and Sollecito simply because Guede has been convicted, that is the worst sort of miscarriage of justice. I'm surprised you aren't outraged.
As for your last assertion, it makes no sense to me. There is ample evidence of Guede in the murder room and on and inside the victim's body.
There is no equivalent for Knox or Sollecito. In fact, the only evidence that Sollecito ever touched the victim is an obviously contaminated bra clasp.
Nova
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Because they barely knew one another and his interrogators convinced him that Knox had turned on him. This is a common interrogation technique and means nothing with two people who had known each other for only a week or two.
And, in any event, how do you give someone an ironclad alibi when you both have been sleeping? I have no reason to believe my husband got out of bed last night, but then I was asleep most of the time. He could have made a run to Denny's. How would I know?
Nova
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BBM: That is NOT clearly illogical. We'll have to wait for the report. Whether results are reliable depend on how the artifacts were collected, the size of the sample, the exposure of the samples for weeks on the floor v. DNA kept safe INSIDE the victim.
Let's use an analogy. I rinse my dirty dishes in the sink, and then run them through the dishwasher, and as I'm unloading it I notice that some of the plates still have food stuck to them; does that mean all the dishes are dirty?
Of course not, just the ones I probably didn't rinse enough under the sink before putting them in the machine. Like those dirty dishes, the CSI team was careless with some items, getting improper results from the machine when they ran the tests. Some items were never fit to be run through the machine in the first place like the knife and bra clasp, kind of like putting a broken glass in the dishwasher. If I unload the dishwasher and see a broken glass, I don't throw out all the other dishes.
He backed her alibi once he was out of the interrogation. He wrote it in his prison diary, it was his defense during the trial and it is in his book.
(snipped for relevant section)
Ah, the irony! You may remember, Otto, that I've shown that photo here several times before and stated back then as I will again now that the image comes from Perugia Murder File, and if I'm not mistaken it's from Yummi, if not another revered poster from that exclusive forum of people who only believe the pair are guilty. I believe he/she darkened the contrast to allow the shape to be more visible. I liked it because it was the first I found that was side by side like that. So you can drop all the (not so)subtle insinuations that this is some doctored photo from a pro-innocence site.
Ah, the irony! You may remember, Otto, that I've shown that photo here several times before and stated back then as I will again now that the image comes from Perugia Murder File, and if I'm not mistaken it's from Yummi, if not another revered poster from that exclusive forum of people who only believe the pair are guilty. I believe he/she darkened the contrast to allow the shape to be more visible. I liked it because it was the first I found that was side by side like that. So you can drop all the (not so)subtle insinuations that this is some doctored photo from a pro-innocence site.
There is evidence of Guede's bloody footprints going from Meredith's bedroom, down the hallway and out the front door. There is no evidence of him going into the bathroom shared by Meredith and Knox (bathmat). There is evidence of him using the toilet in the bathroom shared by Filomina and Laura.
At this point, the conviction stands and the appeal has been nullified (for lack of a better term). The conviction still has to be confirmed, but if an appeal is successful (i.e.: no illogical rulings) then the conviction will be nullfied. Until the end of the court process, nothing is written in stone. That is the legal process in Italy. Many countries have a judicial system where both prosecution and defense can appeal a verdict, so although it may seem strange and unjust in the US, it is probably normal in many parts of the world.
The problem for Knox is that she has been connected with a crime in a foreign country and so the law of that country trumps. US law in not international law.
We'll have to wait a couple of years to learn whether the conviction will be confirmed, or whether a successful appeal is possible. At that time, the extradition process will begin and only then will we learn whether the US is prepared to extradite someone that is convicted of murder in Italy. The Harvard law professor seems to think that, according to the laws that exist today, Knox would be extradited if she is convicted of murder in Perugia.
I'm not singling out the US as the only country for which there is a language barrier, I'm commenting on why people in the US (eg: Seattle) may not be fully aware of all of the facts of the case. If we were discussing a case where the murderer was from Latvia and the murder was in France, I wouldn't have mentioned Italy and the US.
So it's a bit like all the red plates have food on them and all the blue plates don't? All of Guede's DNA was perfectly handled, perfectly analyzed and everything was perfect, but all of Knox/Sollecito's DNA was imperfectly handled, imperfectly analyzed and was generally speaking, imperfect? That would be quite a coincidence.
Regarding the two photos of the foot prints. One is original, and the other is cropped, resized and modified in ways that make it look quite different (in my opinion) from the original. I have not come to any conclusions regarding the much darker image other than what I have read here ... specifically that it somehow supports the theory that the bathmat footprint belongs to Guede.
Yes, it was cropped, resized and modified... by a person on PMF to support the argument that it actually belonged to Raf. So the irony that you saw it and think it's doctored to look like Rudy's when the complete opposite is true is rather interesting. Try as they might, they are unable to reconcile all the signature characteristics of Raf's distinct foot with that print.
No, because not all of Amanda and Raf's DNA samples were LCN or contaminated.
regarding the whole time of death theory i dont see it being at late as conviction says and i am curious about the hole theory of stomach contents.. reading this thread earlier about the emptying of the stomach is it possible she died late and came home and ate having already passed te first meal?
my problem is with the transit in her digestive system because surely even if she died earlier or late there wouold have been something passing in her system from eating at 6 o' clock......i mean food starts being broken down and passing from ur stomach into intestines after 30 minutes or so i would guess so part of this food would be in there even if she died at 8/9/10.
I dunno just trying to understnad that info
my problem is with the transit in her digestive system because surely even if she died earlier or late there wouold have been something passing in her system from eating at 6 o' clock......i mean food starts being broken down and passing from ur stomach into intestines after 30 minutes or so i would guess so part of this food would be in there even if she died at 8/9/10.
I dunno just trying to understnad that info
Boytwnmom, this article seems to shed more light on the subject:
"The legal question would be whether Knox was acquitted, as U.S. courts would define the term, or whether the case was merely reversed and still open for further appeal, said criminal lawyer and Harvard Law Professor Alan Dershowitz.
...
Much of the complication stems from the differences between the Italian and U.S. legal systems. In the United States, if a defendant is acquitted, the case cannot be retried.
In Italy, prosecutors and lawyers for interested parties, such as Kercher's family, can file an appeal. Unlike American courts of appeal, which only consider legal errors in the courts below, Italian courts of appeal, which are comprised of both judges and jurors, can reconsider the facts of a case.
Depending on the Italian high court's reason for overturning Knox's acquittal, it is possible that the court of appeals could consider new evidence that's introduced, said Dalla Vedova. As a result, a defendant can effectively be retried in the course of one case in Italy.
Dalla Vedova said the high court's decision does not raise a double jeopardy problem because the retrial would not be a new case but rather a continuation of the same case on appeal.
Other defendants who have been acquitted in other countries and then convicted on appeal have attempted to raise the double jeopardy principle to avoid extradition, without much success, said Mary Fan, a law professor at the University of Washington who specializes in cross-border criminal law.
While the issue is rare in the United States, several courts have rejected the double jeopardy argument in similar cases. In 2010, a federal court in California found that a man who was acquitted of murder in Mexico and later convicted after prosecutors appealed the acquittal, could not claim double jeopardy to avoid extradition to Mexico. That court cited a 1974 decision from the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in New York, that reached the same conclusion with respect to Canadian law, which also allows the government to appeal an acquittal"
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/03/27/uk-italy-knox-extradition-idUKBRE92Q01620130327
"The legal question would be whether Knox was acquitted, as U.S. courts would define the term, or whether the case was merely reversed and still open for further appeal, said criminal lawyer and Harvard Law Professor Alan Dershowitz.
...
Much of the complication stems from the differences between the Italian and U.S. legal systems. In the United States, if a defendant is acquitted, the case cannot be retried.
In Italy, prosecutors and lawyers for interested parties, such as Kercher's family, can file an appeal. Unlike American courts of appeal, which only consider legal errors in the courts below, Italian courts of appeal, which are comprised of both judges and jurors, can reconsider the facts of a case.
Depending on the Italian high court's reason for overturning Knox's acquittal, it is possible that the court of appeals could consider new evidence that's introduced, said Dalla Vedova. As a result, a defendant can effectively be retried in the course of one case in Italy.
Dalla Vedova said the high court's decision does not raise a double jeopardy problem because the retrial would not be a new case but rather a continuation of the same case on appeal.
Other defendants who have been acquitted in other countries and then convicted on appeal have attempted to raise the double jeopardy principle to avoid extradition, without much success, said Mary Fan, a law professor at the University of Washington who specializes in cross-border criminal law.
While the issue is rare in the United States, several courts have rejected the double jeopardy argument in similar cases. In 2010, a federal court in California found that a man who was acquitted of murder in Mexico and later convicted after prosecutors appealed the acquittal, could not claim double jeopardy to avoid extradition to Mexico. That court cited a 1974 decision from the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in New York, that reached the same conclusion with respect to Canadian law, which also allows the government to appeal an acquittal"
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/03/27/uk-italy-knox-extradition-idUKBRE92Q01620130327
Very good article by Harvard law professor
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324789504578384871256488436.html
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324789504578384871256488436.html
redheadedgal
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Even if Knox is convicted this time around, it is unlikely she will ever come back to Italy. There is a valid extradition agreement between the two nations, but the U.S. has not set much of a precedence in returning suspects for such matters. In 1998, an American fighter jet clipped a ski lift cable sending a gondola of 20 passengers to their death in the Italian Dolomite mountain range.
Italy had requested their extradition to try them for multiple manslaughter, but the U.S. refused and tried them in a military tribunal instead. They were found not guilty.
And in 2012, Italy's high court upheld the conviction of 22 CIA agents and an Air Force colonel in conjunction with the extraordinary rendition of Egyptian cleric Abu Omar from a street in Milan. Again, the U.S. refused to comply with the extradition order. Both previous high-profile cases involved state employees or military members. Knox's case is a private matter with very little precedence.
http://www.edition.cnn.com/2013/03/...nda-knox-analysis-nadeau/index.html?hpt=hp_c3
Italy had requested their extradition to try them for multiple manslaughter, but the U.S. refused and tried them in a military tribunal instead. They were found not guilty.
And in 2012, Italy's high court upheld the conviction of 22 CIA agents and an Air Force colonel in conjunction with the extraordinary rendition of Egyptian cleric Abu Omar from a street in Milan. Again, the U.S. refused to comply with the extradition order. Both previous high-profile cases involved state employees or military members. Knox's case is a private matter with very little precedence.
http://www.edition.cnn.com/2013/03/...nda-knox-analysis-nadeau/index.html?hpt=hp_c3
redheadedgal
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“She was actually sitting alone in a separate room waiting for her boyfriend, and Napoleani said in court Friday (Feb. 27) that when she went to get some water she walked by the room where Amanda was and saw Amanda ‘doing the splits.’ She said she thought this was ‘odd behavior’ and that Amanda should have instead appeared to be mourning the loss of Meredith. The tabloid press further sensationalized her statement by changing ‘the splits’ to ‘cartwheels,’ and the mainstream press ran with that. ”
“Amanda does yoga to calm herself down and relieve stress, and she told her father and me that’s why she was doing the splits."
http://www.westseattleherald.com/2009/03/01/news/knox-says-cop-misread-yoga-move
"The factors behind the initial conviction included an admission by Ms. Knox that she was at the crime scene in the northern Italian town of Perugia, plus her false accusation that a bartender had slit Kercher's throat. The case against her also included a questionable alibi and evidence of her DNA on the alleged murder weapon. In a bizarre ruling, the trial court held that Ms. Knox's admission could not be used against her, but that her false accusation could form the basis of a separate crime that the Italians call "calumny." The appeals court then threw out the DNA evidence (for technical forensic reasons) and acquitted Ms. Knox of the murder charges." ~ Dershowitz
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