Cell Phone, Location and Mapping the Route

[Factoria]

Other than Newone's confirmation, I don't remember the other source of them walking to Tim's.

Also for anyone local to that area....I need to know the location of an old Timmies or a an old Waffle House at or near Wilson-2 and Trinity-52.

Can anyone help or remembers the location when the building was a Waffle House?

There's a Tim Hortons much farther up on Hwy 2 ~ 1290 Colborne St E(Hwy 2/Wilson St is called Garden Ave or Colborne St. E in that area). It would be on your right hand side if you're travelling from Ancaster towards Brantford. The next set of lights past that is Brant County 18, and there used to be a Pancake House at that corner, on Brant 18 ~ on your right hand side if you were to make a left off of Colborne. That was many, many moons ago. It's now some sort of industrial strip. You've piqued my curiosity now... what is the significance of this location?

 

[Rob Ocelot]

In case you missed it, the day of the announcement for the second arrest, in the presser, LE announced they had narrowed the possible route taken to 3. I feel pretty confident in saying this comes from cell tower pinging.

Two obvious routes are Hwy 2 and 403. The third route could be the back roads south of Hwy 2 (which IMO doesn't bear out with the quoted times for TB's disappearance and the report of the truck in Brantford) or possibly Jerseyville road which is north of the 403, but that doesn't seem to make sense given how TB's cell phone ended up where it was near Oak Park road. There's only two ways to get there: approach from the north on Oak Park (off the 403) or from the east on Hardy road which satisfies the 'truck went through downtown Brantford' requirement.

To my sense of things it's more likely they took the Hwy 2 route. Then again, I'm not committing a crime with a hostage/corpse in the cab of the truck so perhaps logic gets thrown out the window. In any case you either know the area and the easiest routes to get somewhere or you plug it into a GPS and follow that. Some simple field work would reveal if a fastest or shortest route calculated in a GPS instructed to avoid major highways like the 403 would take you down Hwy 2 and through downtown Brantford. Maybe I should go do that today...

 

[Lindsay7136]

This google image shows the intersection. I believe the small building may housed a Donut Diner or somethin similar, currently the whole plaza appears to be deserted. As a local I toured through the area, there is some illegal dumping going on behind the plaza, and I assume the search parties had already searched the whole area.
I too believe that the vehicle was overtaken while on Trinity Road.
The local Tim Horton's is a Right Turn from Trinity, the Google map is inaccurate as the Timmie's has a new building, the one shown on Google is now empty. This is a heavy traffic area, with a large parking lot. Locals know there is always activity at a Timmie's regardless of the time of day/night. I do not believe the vehicles ever made it to Tim Horton's. Local word of mouth is that TB had called SB from the vehicle to inform he was driving the two males to Tim Horton's to meet up with their ride.

Not sure what you are saying is deserted - since you quoted my post, I will assume it is what I mentioned, which is not deserted. I live right down the street - the exact address for the Tim Hortons is 1180 Wilson Street West (At least according to google - it was recently moved to the other side of the so-called plaza (Wendys and a gas station)) if that helps.

 

[Mscree]

I really do think LE know a lot more then is out there. But I do remember them saying at one of the press conferences that they weren't able to identify the vehicle following the truck and even people from auto clubs weren't able to either but they suspected it was an SUV. It ends up being a Yukon which is fairly common do you think the video was obtained form one of the businesses around where the phone was ditched? Sorry I'm not familiar with the ancaster area or brantford.

 

[Wondergirl]

Do you have a link re: narrowed the possible route taken to 3?

Canadian cell tower map

http://www.ertyu.org/steven_nikkel/cancellsites.html

Of course we do not know the cell phone provider for TB

Just watched the presser for the second arrest and there is NO mention of possible routes taken

http://new.livestream.com/joeycoleman-ca/events/2103111

Two obvious routes are Hwy 2 and 403. The third route could be the back roads south of Hwy 2 (which IMO doesn't bear out with the quoted times for TB's disappearance and the report of the truck in Brantford) or possibly Jerseyville road which is north of the 403, but that doesn't seem to make sense given how TB's cell phone ended up where it was near Oak Park road. There's only two ways to get there: approach from the north on Oak Park (off the 403) or from the east on Hardy road which satisfies the 'truck went through downtown Brantford' requirement.

To my sense of things it's more likely they took the Hwy 2 route. Then again, I'm not committing a crime with a hostage/corpse in the cab of the truck so perhaps logic gets thrown out the window. In any case you either know the area and the easiest routes to get somewhere or you plug it into a GPS and follow that. Some simple field work would reveal if a fastest or shortest route calculated in a GPS instructed to avoid major highways like the 403 would take you down Hwy 2 and through downtown Brantford. Maybe I should go do that today...

I am sure that I heard this directly in a video, in the last couple of days.

You are correct, Snooper, it's definitely NOT in the Presser, nor the extended Q & A period. It took me half an hour to find the presser online, with the Q & A period. So, I will post the link for reference.

I will attempt to find that, as I am not dreaming that up, I feel confident, lol. As of now, please disregard my earlier comment about the 3 possible routes taken.

Sorry and TIA.

Extended Press Conference on Second Arrest:

http://www.cp24.com/video?clipId=931810

 

[SnooperDuper]

I am sure that I heard this directly in a video, in the last couple of days.

You are correct, Snooper, it's definitely NOT in the Presser, nor the extended Q & A period. It took me half an hour to find the presser online, with the Q & A period. So, I will post the link for reference.

I will attempt to find that, as I am not dreaming that up, I feel confident, lol. As of now, please disregard my earlier comment about the 3 possible routes taken.

Sorry and TIA.

Extended Press Conference on Second Arrest:

http://www.cp24.com/video?clipId=931810

Here you go my dear, you were not hallucinating:

"Earlier in the investigation, there were five police officers assigned to review 30 security video tapes that captured images of Bosma's truck on May 6, the night he was abducted. Kavanagh said the officers were able to plot out three possible routes the truck took that night. He has also said he believes Bosma was killed that night."

http://news.ca.msn.com/ontario/hamilton/clairmont-no-id-yet-of-two-other-suspects-in-bosma-murder

 

[SnooperDuper]

So disturbing how someone could do something like this to another person. Obviously they are not normal. Just my guess Tim was IDed by something he was wearing such as a wedding band, clothing, maybe his wallet in his pants pocket, footwear or a combination of things. According to this article a complete forensic examination had not been done at the time they released this information of it being TB. I don't mean to sound grotesque, but if he was lying on his back and set him on fire, the back of him may not have burnt, being it is against the ground. Therefore his wallet, if he had it on him, which he probably did as it would have contained his license and other personal information. Also the clothing he had on may not have fully burnt underneath him either JMO. I do not think the incinerator was not used for TB. The news about the incinerator came out after TB's body was discovered. The bottom link I provided, is the video at 1:15, where the reporter claims she was told by a man who rents the farmland property, police told him the two green tents are covering two burnt areas of ground. Just my guess, two burnt areas...TB and the seat(s) from his truck.

Sunday, May 12, 2013 - Tim's truck found in MB's driveway.
http://www.cp24.com/news/police-find-truck-belonging-to-missing-man-tim-bosma-1.1278097

Tuesday, May 14, 2014 - TB's remains found
But Bosma was murdered, and taken to a location in the Waterloo area, where his body was burned beyond recognition, chief investigator Matt Kavanagh told a press conference Tuesday afternoon.

The coroner's office and the Centre of Forensic Science is assisting, Kavanagh told a press conference.

"The cause of death comes from the expertise that comes from the coroner's office," Kavanagh said., noting that the exact cause of death will not be known until that examination is complete.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2875368-live-police-update-timothy-bosma-investigation/

Thursday, May 16, 2013 - information about the incinerator.
Hamilton Police have found an incinerator on farmland owned by Dellen Millard, the man accused of killing Ancaster resident Tim Bosma.

Police confirmed the discovery of the incinerator to Global News Thursday afternoon.

http://globalnews.ca/news/569264/tim-bosma-police-find-incinerator-on-millard-owned-farm-land/

Video - man who rents property was told by LE tents covering two burnt areas of ground.
http://video.theloop.ca/watch/incinerator-seized-at-millards-farm/2387637822001#.UaECf0BJ4gt

The picture of the incinerator taken by the neighbours appeared on the net on May 10, the same day DM was arrested. LE did not confirm they had an incinerator until the 16th, though. TB's death was announced the 14th. LE knew of the incinerator right off the bat, as the neighbours reported it to them and got their phone seized, and that's where LE set up their tents.

 

[Peace777]

You would think DM and MS would be smart enough to have physically destroyed the phone...

This part of finding TB's phone just doesn't fit into anything (Why wasn't it destroyed?) Would there be any reason for it just to be left there to BE found on purpose? Then a free Kijiji ad was put out to look for a phone on the ground how does that fit in? (You would think that only the participants in this grisly murder scheme would know that as I don't think TB's body had been found yet?) Strange IMO Things that just make you go Hmmm

 

[Peace777]

Also...in my searching this morning...I happened upon this article:


http://globalnews.ca/news/545030/man-disappears-after-test-drive-with-interested-truck-buyers/

"Customers looking to contact sellers on classified sites such as Kijiji generally have to e-mail the seller, police said at a press conference Wednesday.
But Bosma had put his phone number on the classified ad websites, allowing him to be contacted directly.
As a result, police were not able to glean any information from the website’s e-mail records."

BBM

Hadn't there been some discussion where Kijiji said there wasn't any personal info on TB's ad? I recall a few people from here at WS saying they had seen it there too before the ad was gone? Just found this very interesting as it seems the above information was from LE...that he HAD his # on there...

Anyone besides TB who had access or used that Kijiji acct. likely took the phone # off so as not to be contacted anymore for privacy reasons? I don't think Kijiji did it (got onto the acct.). Did the Bosma's normally sell stuff on Kijiji as I read somewhere the ad also mentioned TB didn't need the truck as he was selling his trailer too. Was there another vehicle they had besides the truck?JMO

 

[Mscree]

They may not have a choice with the phone if there was a struggle maybe they just tossed the phone so there was no way Tim could get a hold of it! Not really thinking things through. Or not thinking they would link the phone to tim

 

[swedie]

The picture of the incinerator taken by the neighbours appeared on the net on May 10, the same day DM was arrested. LE did not confirm they had an incinerator until the 16th, though. TB's death was announced the 14th. LE knew of the incinerator right off the bat, as the neighbours reported it to them and got their phone seized, and that's where LE set up their tents.

Yes I realize this but the incinerator did not become an issue/reported about until after TB's body was found. One would think that IF the incinerator was used for TB, LE would have announce the same day that they discovered it the same day as finding Tim and would have more than likely hauled it away that day. I am also going on the man's words who rents DM's farmland. Why would LE lie to him? It's possible the two burnt areas may have been TB's truck seats. There were two tents which were set up over that area and to me that says they were protecting/preserving those areas for two apparent reasons. 1. Privacy and 2. containing evidence.

A police source told CBC News that investigators believe Bosma was killed inside his truck, during a struggle as part of an attempted hijacking. The same police source said that Bosma's truck was found with seats missing. Hamilton police could not be reached for comment on these details.

http://www.cbc.ca/hamilton/news/story/2013/05/17/hamilton-bosma-details.html

 

[Gibson67]

I really do think LE know a lot more then is out there. But I do remember them saying at one of the press conferences that they weren't able to identify the vehicle following the truck and even people from auto clubs weren't able to either but they suspected it was an SUV. It ends up being a Yukon which is fairly common do you think the video was obtained form one of the businesses around where the phone was ditched? Sorry I'm not familiar with the ancaster area or brantford.

maybe they clued into it being a yukon after DM was identified and they were able to determine what vehicles were registered to him..once having that info they would then see if the video looked like his yukon.

 

[skatergirl]

This part of finding TB's phone just doesn't fit into anything (Why wasn't it destroyed?) Would there be any reason for it just to be left there to BE found on purpose? Then a free Kijiji ad was put out to look for a phone on the ground how does that fit in? (You would think that only the participants in this grisly murder scheme would know that as I don't think TB's body had been found yet?) Strange IMO Things that just make you go Hmmm

I would guess LE assumed the phone had been discarded, so that in no way could it be tracked any further by cell towers even though it was turned off, therefore leading LE down the path they had taken and toward more evidence

 

[Archangel7]

There's a Tim Hortons much farther up on Hwy 2 ~ 1290 Colborne St E(Hwy 2/Wilson St is called Garden Ave or Colborne St. E in that area). It would be on your right hand side if you're travelling from Ancaster towards Brantford. The next set of lights past that is Brant County 18, and there used to be a Pancake House at that corner, on Brant 18 ~ on your right hand side if you were to make a left off of Colborne. That was many, many moons ago. It's now some sort of industrial strip. You've piqued my curiosity now... what is the significance of this location?

I had information that the chase car was "seen/videoed at that location

County 18/Garden Ave/Colborne. I think I've got it...."Tiki Loft?"area.

If true, it will (likely)place all involved at that point in order for us to setup a route and timeline. Also likely, given where TB phone terminated, to determine where exactly the attack happened thus an idea of motive. Also would tend to gives us a route (with the deceased), which adds urgency and gives us an idea where to look for the splitting routes to farm/hanger and BGI where TB's phone was found.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I had information that the chase car was "seen/videoed at that location

County 18/Garden Ave/Colborne. I think I've got it...."Tiki Loft?"area.

If true, it will (likely)place all involved at that point in order for us to setup a route and timeline. Also likely, given where TB phone terminated, to determine where exactly the attack happened thus an idea of motive. Also would tend to gives us a route (with the deceased), which adds urgency and gives us an idea where to look for the splitting routes to farm/hanger and BGI where TB's phone was found.

The problem is...

"Bosma had his cellphone on him, but it was turned off shortly after his disappearance. Because of the rural area’s poor reception, police were able to track its last ping — that is, the final signal from the phone that bounced off the nearest tower — only to within 50 kilometres."

http://www.chfi.com/2013/05/10/heart...ing-mans-wife/

 

[swedie]

You would think DM and MS would be smart enough to have physically destroyed the phone...

Speculation on my part, I don't think DM or MS had Tim's phone at anytime. Where Tim's phone was found, could have been where DM pulled over in the industrial area and this is where they were going to load his truck into the trailer. There may have been a scuffle at this point in the truck and Tim may have opened his door trying to get away and his phone could have fallen out of the truck without anyone realizing. You would think if DM or MS had Tim's phone, they would have thrown it into some bushes where it would have been harder to find. MOO

Does someone have a map or information of how far away from TB's home the industrial area is? TIA

 

[frazzled]

The problem is...

"Bosma had his cellphone on him, but it was turned off shortly after his disappearance. Because of the rural area’s poor reception, police were able to track its last ping — that is, the final signal from the phone that bounced off the nearest tower — only to within 50 kilometres."

http://www.chfi.com/2013/05/10/heart...ing-mans-wife/

So does that mean that the "within a mile" description from LE is based on time rather than location?
I keep wondering the time the phone went off. Is shortly 2 mins or 20 mins? Could they had driven to multiple locations over the course of 30 mins then came back "within a mile" before the phone went off? The assumption is that "within a mile" meant it happened pretty much right away.

 

[THXGuru]

Speculation on my part, I don't think DM or MS had Tim's phone at anytime. Where Tim's phone was found, could have been where DM pulled over in the industrial area and this is where they were going to load his truck into the trailer. There may have been a scuffle at this point in the truck and Tim may have opened his door trying to get away and his phone could have fallen out of the truck without anyone realizing. You would think if DM or MS had Tim's phone, they would have thrown it into some bushes where it would have been harder to find. MOO

Makes a lot of sense, so would you say Tims body was transferred to the Yukon?

 

[SnooperDuper]

So does that mean that the "within a mile" description from LE is based on time rather than location?
I keep wondering the time the phone went off. Is shortly 2 mins or 20 mins?

"Police say the cell phone was turned off shortly after 10:00 Monday night and hadn’t been turned back on since"

Many news outlets have reported the "shortly after 10" time but here's just one for proof:

http://www.chch.com/timeline-for-bosma-case/

So shortly after 10, like 10:10, DM, MS and TB were already in Brantford.

Note the info about the last ping and "shortly after 10" comes from LE; "within a mile" does not

 

[Gibson67]

"Police say the cell phone was turned off shortly after 10:00 Monday night and hadn’t been turned back on since"

Many news outlets have reported the "shortly after 10" time but here's just one for proof:

http://www.chch.com/timeline-for-bosma-case/

So shortly after 10, like 10:10, DM, MS and TB were already in Brantford.

Note the info about the last ping and "shortly after 10" comes from LE; "within a mile" does not

so shortly after 10 puts them in Brantford and where Tim's phone was found and possibly some video footage of something being seen..which maybe why they are confirming he died in the truck that night.