George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #3

[Words2Serve]

Wow, you guys are moving fast! My thoughts on what I saw of Rachel's testimony today is that I truly don't know what to do with it. She seemed ver authentic but also irritated and very uncomfortable on the stand. I honestly don't know what to make of her.

My take on Rachel, Dee Dee, others so far is that all of them have 'changed/interpreted' their stories differently at times. Whether for depositions, talking to news, 911, etc. so I think these jurors are going to have to pick and choose what parts of their testimonies they feel they can use, and what parts they are not comfortable with because of the changes.

I feel GZ has slight differences in stories, and so have these witnesses, and the Defense may have the same case with some of their witnesses. This case appears to have alot of that happening. I have remembered things differently than I had first stated many times, I don't see this as outright 'LYING'. So the jury will have to decide if they believe it was intended or innocent 'changes in the story'

If this jury is not hung I will be very interested in how they came to their consensus. So far IMO these witnesses 'work' for whatever 'side' your on.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Guess it depends where you teach.

I've been to schools where a few of the English teachers talk just like this witness.

It has nothing to do with standards and everything to do with reality.

That's a very sad reality if that's true.

 

[miimaa]

but what if the witness is telling the truth when she said TM last words were get off of me get off of me, and george was grabbing his collar or jacket - and TM didn't know who he was, just knew he was chasing him, do you think TM is still guilty of assault??

I watched her testimony today and she did not say GZ was grabbing TM's collar or jacket. Also when was GZ 'chasing' TM? She did not say that. She said TM stated GZ was watching him and later following him. At one point in her testimony she stated TM said he was behind his daddy's house -- so how did he get himself back over by GZ's vehicle?

 

[Karmady]

Or of being grievously injured.

It's actually "great" rather than "grievous." Great, imo, has a slightly less dire connotation.

 

[polleypockets]

Wow, you guys are moving fast! My thoughts on what I saw of Rachel's testimony today is that I truly don't know what to do with it. She seemed ver authentic but also irritated and very uncomfortable on the stand. I honestly don't know what to make of her.

you know, thats what makes me beieve her - its obvious she wasn't coached or anything but the prosecution, that she is just telling what happened and not letting DT twist her words - all be it in a way that is prolly not the best way - but remember she is 19 years old and still a senior in high school, she hasn't had the proper education or been taught how she is suppose to act in court - but lets face it especially mentally imo she still is just a teenager

 

[4Jacy]

Another pathetic strike out for the state. Between her lying, confusion and anger and apparently being inconvenienced by a few hours of testimony i dont know what to think. I also am surprised by the minimization of the only actual racial slurs we've heard so far...which came,supposedly, from TM imo

I'm sure he said that to sound cool to his female friend.

 

[PrincessSezMe]

1. Totally agree with this.......

2. How much do you punish someone who was clearly trying to save their own life and did not want to kill anyone?

The answer is you don't.

JMO

I agree with everything you said in #2 except what I put in red. I haven't seen that clearly shown at all yet. I don't think he set out to kill anyone, but I haven't seen anything other than his own say so that he truly thought his life was in danger. He had some superficial wounds. That, and he has his story. It's not enough information for me to conclude that he had no other choice than to pull out his gun and kill someone.

I will wait and see what all the evidence shows on both sides.

 

[MeeBee]

punching someone and breaking their nose and pounding their head against a sidewalk is a crime and it is illegal.

Trayvon Martin's actions that night are the solid reason he is dead.

If he would not have done what he did to George, George would not have had to use legal force to save his life.

JMO.

If George had not confronted Trayvon, Trayvon would never have attacked him or been in a fight with him. Also, Rachel's version paints a very different picture.

I just don't see how anyone can have made up, definitively their mind one way or another. George may have felt his life is in danger, but is he completely innocent if the reason he's even in the situation in the first place is because he put himself there???

 

[AngelWings444]

I agree! I think these kids need something else to do besides staying on the phone and social media all day. Today's youth have a lot of pitfalls and traps to fall into. You really have to stay on top of them as parents to ensure they stay on track. It doesn't sound like that happened with the kids involved in this case. Sad to say.

No kidding! My son had almost 4000 text messages in ONE month, during school. Needless to say, he lost his phone privilege's for a long time.

This girls Mom was out of the country. I feel bad for our youth today. Raising themselves, too much time on their hands. Hopefully, she will come back tomorrow with a different attitude towards the defense. I do believe her though...and she has obviously not been coached. We have to remember she is a teenager, obviously devastated by the death of her friend. I don't think she wants to be there and clearly, she doesn't like the defense questioning her about her friends death. If my friend was killed, I wouldn't want to have a defense attorney use me to try to keep the person responsible from being held responsible. I feel sorry for her. Truly. This is a huge burden for any teen! She shouldn't get so defensive, but I understand.

 

[m00c0w]

It's actually "great" rather than "grievous." Great, imo, has a slightly less dire connotation.

That's the general term, but yes, I believe that's the wording specific to Florida. I stand corrected.

 

[Words2Serve]

Under Florida Law, George only has to be in reasonable fear for his life.

Asking because I honestly don't know the wording of the LAW... but I thought it stated any force, but 'deadly force'?

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Head wounds bleed, a lot. It was barely a scratch. His clothes were spotless. The mark on his nose would best be described as a nic like from shaving. No way was his nose broken.

All IMO.

Did you not see the huge bump on the side of his nose?
And his black eyes in the reenactment?

 

[Linda7NJ]

I am older than dirt and I would be very upset if my child disrespected anyone ever especially in court. But, he has been taught to be respectful. How do we know what this girl has been taught in her life. I live in the deep south. I don't live in a big city like Miami and have no idea what her lifestyle is like. Perhaps she has never been taught how to act in court and around authority. If she has not had a role model especially through this how can anyone expect her to suddenly know how to act??????

Another thing almost off subject....years ago my husband was a volunteer fireman. There was a huge fire to a business here and many of the fireman were called to a trial in another large city to give their accounts of what they saw and did. There was a high powered attorney that kept asking my hubby what he did on Engine 7. He corrected the attorney and told him he was never on Engine 7 he was on Engine 9. This went on for quite some time with the attorney constantly referring to him being on Engine 7....he said he finally told the attorney " I keep telling you I was never on Engine 7" !!!! He told me this when he got home and I was mortified as I would never have confronted anyone in my life...however, he was raised differently and has NO qualms about saying what he feels.....all this just to say we don't know this girl's home life, her past or anything. Let's just kind of see how this plays out....her memory on lots of things was amazing!!!!!!! IMO.

Being respectful has its limits.
Respect is earned, not freely given.
I taught mine to think for himself, not blindly obey. Listen to his instincts.
I prefer to raise mine to be assertive.

 

[Karmady]

That's a very sad reality if that's true.

I know for a fact that it is a reality for some. But that has absolutely nothing to do with the law, the facts, or the credibility of the witness in this case. Whether the way she speaks, thinks or acts is common in her reality doesn't mean it can't be evaluated under standards to which the witness cannot or will not subscribe. jmo

 

[TorisMom003]

Do you know if the PA he saw the following day put on a dressing? If the medics had thought he needed stitches they'd have used butterfly bandages.

During the walk through with LE the next day, after he went to the dr, he was sporting large bandages on the back of his head (2 of them) and one on his nose as well. They could be called "butterfly bandages" in a way I suppose however they are much larger than any butterfly bandages I have seen before. In the following video you can see what I am talking about.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX1sxARNq_c"]Raw Video: George Zimmerman reenacts incident for Sanford Police - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Linda - I am an English teacher. If you are not exaggerating, all I can say is Lord help us!!!

Ok. So now I'm all worried about my punctuation and grammar.

 

[kimlynn]

punching someone and breaking their nose and pounding their head against a sidewalk is a crime and it is illegal.

Trayvon Martin's actions that night are the solid reason he is dead.

If he would not have done what he did to George, George would not have had to use legal force to save his life.

JMO.

None of this would have come about if George had waited for the police as he was advised by the dispatcher.
IMO

 

[m00c0w]

If George had not confronted Trayvon, Trayvon would never have attacked him or been in a fight with him. Also, Rachel's version paints a very different picture.

I just don't see how anyone can have made up, definitively their mind one way or another. George may have felt his life is in danger, but is he completely innocent if the reason he's even in the situation in the first place is because he put himself there???

Considering he was conducting a lawful activity if he did not threaten, assault, or batter Martin... Yes, he would be completely innocent if the defense's side of the story is true.

Him being stupid and getting out of his truck to try and help police find where Martin was going should not be a death sentence.

:moo:

 

[Karmady]

That's the general term, but yes, I believe that's the wording specific to Florida. I stand corrected.

Wasn't meaning to correct you. I just think it's important to because the words do, imo, mean something signficantly different. And you are correct, grievous is the general term.

 

[iluvmua]

If George had not confronted Trayvon, Trayvon would never have attacked him or been in a fight with him. Also, Rachel's version paints a very different picture.

I just don't see how anyone can have made up, definitively their mind one way or another. George may have felt his life is in danger, but is he completely innocent if the reason he's even in the situation in the first place is because he put himself there???

According to what Dee Dee/ Rachel said Martin was the first one to initiate the conversation.

I'm basing my opinion based on evidence and factual information.....

All of the documents are online, the evidence has been out for over a year.

JMO