Luka Magotta AKA Eric Newman Trial, Week beginning Oct 27, 2014 - Trial Thread #3

[LoyalSleuth]

Anyone know why the fathers name is
under publication ban, but siblings Conrad and Melissa are not?



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[Rayemonde]

I don't know, but the dad got a "support person" with him whilst testifying too... maybe he's classed as vulnerable because of his mental illnesses or something? :thinking: I dunno, I don't have any legal knowledge, I don't know how these things work. Is the mom's name under a publication ban? Leclair was hoping she would testify too.

 

[LoyalSleuth]

I would like to hear from his mother...

So the grandmother he was with in Peterborough is his maternal grandmother? The one who tied brother Conrad to the highchair?


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[Rayemonde]

btw, I've been throwing in the odd Sue Montgomery tweet too when I can, because sometimes she reports stuff that the other guy misses (and vice versa). But if anyone can transcribe all the Sue Montgomery tweets, or any from any other reporters, go ahead I'm getting myself muddled

 

[Rayemonde]

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 1m 1 minute ago
Everyone's back, break's over. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 3m 3 minutes ago
Witness still on the stand. Crown not done, my error, apologies. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 2m 2 minutes ago
Mentioned being estranged from Eric? When? Can't recollect. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 2m 2 minutes ago
Recent? Or in your 30s? In 30s or 40s. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 2m 2 minutes ago
When saw your son when he was a free man? A long time ago. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 2m 2 minutes ago
See him in Montreal? Yes. Remember apartment? No. 2nd fl? Don't remember. Near expressway? Don't remember. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 1m 1 minute ago
Where live before that? In apt in Scarborough, Ridgemount. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 52s 53 seconds ago
Did he travel anywhere? He told me Russia. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 1m 1 minute ago
With wife? Teaching English as second language? Yes. #Magnotta

ME: wtf?!? Wife?!?!

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 40s 41 seconds ago
Did he have condo in Montreal or tell you about that? No, don't know, don't recall. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 59s 59 seconds ago
Russia, Italy, California were some of places #Magnotta told witness he travelled to. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 43s 43 seconds ago
How doing in Montreal? He said he was ok. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 25s 25 seconds ago
What about wife, Oksana (sp?)? He told me they split up. #Magnotta

 

[Rayemonde]

suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 24s 24 seconds ago
He wrote letters, I think, father says. #Magnotta was fine in Mtl. He told dad he had split up with wife, Xanna

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 34s 35 seconds ago
He told me he was going to meet wife's relatives in Russia, where he said he worked for couple of years. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 19s 20 seconds ago
Does Eric have son? No. 4 year old? No. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · now 3 seconds ago
Does he speak Russian? Don't know, a little bit. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 24s 25 seconds ago
Ex spoke Russian, Russian roots in family. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · now
Pix of Eric in Russia? No. Never sent pix? No. How long he had job in Russia? Don't know. #Magnotta

suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 31s 31 seconds ago
#Magnotta still not looking at his father. Head down



Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 22s 22 seconds ago
Know for a fact he had job in Russia? That's what he said. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · now 3 seconds ago
Most of his contact was with his mother and grandmother, witness says about son. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 24s 25 seconds ago
You on Facebook? A long time ago, Eric was helping me, teaching me. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · now 3 seconds ago
I stopped being interested, he stopped teaching me. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 3s 3 seconds ago
Who did you communicate with on FB? Brothers, stepdaughters, brother's kid, just with relatives and some people. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 3s 3 seconds ago
Eric was showing me how to set up FB. Stopped learning it, gave up laptop. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · now
How many times visit Eric in jail? 5 I think. First time? Don't remember. Maybe summer. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · now
With this gentleman here in court, here to help you? Yes. More confidence when he's around? Yes. #Magnotta

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

RAYEMONDE! You're doing a magnificent job. YAAAAAAY YOU!! :tyou:

 

[Rayemonde]

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 26s 26 seconds ago
In jail visiting Eric with wife? She wasn't allowed in. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 27s 27 seconds ago
When did he change his name? 10 years I think. He wanted to get rid of last name. I didn't understand why he did that. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 9s 9 seconds ago
Were you offended by that? Defence objects. Jury leaves. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 30s 30 seconds ago
Witness leaves too. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 27s 27 seconds ago
Debate over. Jury being summoned. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 55s 55 seconds ago
Back to witness. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 26s 26 seconds ago
When met with Eric in jail, private conversation? Private. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 41s 42 seconds ago
Parlour inside cell? Met him in room, no guards, closed room. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 26s 27 seconds ago
Just asked how he was doing. He said he had good days and bad days. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 4s 5 seconds ago
Knew he was charged with murder? Yes. Didn't ask him if he did it? No. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 22s 22 seconds ago
He never said he did it? No. He never said he was innocent? No. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 6s 6 seconds ago
No just talked about how he was feeling, how he loved his family. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 31s 31 seconds ago
I know he didn't do it, that's just my own feeling, I just know him as Eric Newman. #Magnotta


suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 17s 17 seconds ago
We just talked about health and the family, witness says. I told him I loved him. I know that he didn't do it. it's my feeling #Magnotta


Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 51s 51 seconds ago
Asks again about Eric changing names. Move on, the judge says. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 36s 36 seconds ago
Asking about the voices. Alcohol had no bearing? No.#Magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 16s 16 seconds ago
I coped with it through alcohol but it was the wrong way to deal with the situation, witness says. #Magnotta



suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · now 3 seconds ago
Last time dad heard voices was a week ago. Alcohol didn't cover them up, witness says. I sought help. Drank excessively #Magnotta

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Did I read that correctly? Did MAGNOTTA have a wife?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 39s 39 seconds ago

Debate over. Jury being summoned. #Magnotta
0 replies 0 retweets 0 favorites
Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 8m 8 minutes ago

Witness leaves too. #Magnotta
0 replies 2 retweets 2 favorites
Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 9m 9 minutes ago

Were you offended by that? Defence objects. Jury leaves. #Magnotta
0 replies 1 retweet 1 favorite
Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 9m 9 minutes ago

When did he change his name? 10 years I think. He wanted to get rid of last name. I didn't understand why he did that. #Magnotta
0 replies 2 retweets 1 favorite

 

[Rayemonde]

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 36s 36 seconds ago
Drinking excessively? Yes. Heard voices while drinking? No. After? Yes. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 8s 8 seconds ago
Heard voices urging you to kill yourself? Yes. Kill others? No, hurt others. Never acted on these? No. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 29s 29 seconds ago
Asking about other kids. He doesn't keep much contact. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 3s 3 seconds ago
Last time spoke with other son, 10 years ago. Was he ill? Don't know, just know he was in trouble with money. #Magnotta


suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 33s 33 seconds ago
Witness is estranged from other 2 kids, Conrad and Melissa. Last time he spoke to Conrad was 10 yrs ago. He was always in trouble re $

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 24s 24 seconds ago
He never killed anyone? No. You never killed anyone? Oh no. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · now 3 seconds ago
After the medication my life changed. It took awhile to get the right medication. #Magnotta


suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 27s 27 seconds ago
You never killed anyone, crown says. NO! witness says. It took awhile for the right medication to kick in. #magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 30s 31 seconds ago
Crown done. Witness done, says God Bless You to court. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 19s 20 seconds ago
Jury releases jury until Monday. #Magnotta

 

[Rayemonde]

Yes, it seems that Magnotta had a wife - or at least his dad thinks he did :thinking: But no child.

 

[italianWSfan]

I think LM made up stories to impress his father.. like him haiving a wife, travelling, having a job in Russia...
Maybe his father didnt even know LM was a gay escort?
About the letter from this Diana person... I agree that LM has probably sent it himself.
He seems that he always wanted attention and action. Once his life got a bit boring, he fabricated some stories just to see what would happen, how others would react, etc.
I dont know what to think about his father. How can he say he does not believe his son killed Jun Lin? Is he trying to say Eric Newman didnt do this, but LM did this? Two different personalities?
:waitasec:

 

[Rayemonde]

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world...her-says-magnotta-grew-up-isolated/ar-BBce90B

The father, whose name is protected by a publication ban, said Magnotta’s mother insisted on home-schooling her sons, despite the fact she did not graduate from high school.

As a result, the boys had no friends and were isolated, the father testified.

“They were mixed-up kids and they still are,” Magnotta’s father said.

The father travelled from Ontario to testify today to “help [his] son,” and he had a clergyman sitting next to him for support during his testimony.

. . .
Magnotta’s father said the boys were taught at home by their mother against his wishes, because she was clingy and wanted to have “total control over them.”

The family moved back to a Toronto suburb from a smaller town, and when the children started school Magnotta would get beat up, his father testified.

He also alleges Magnotta’s maternal side of the family mistreated the boys, and their maternal grandmother tried to get custody. “She wanted mostly Eric. She smothered him. She favoured him,” he said.

 

[Rayemonde]

Magnotta’s father said his wife insisted on homeschooling her children. Over time, he began to notice his children were becoming isolated and were not developing childhood friends.
“If I may say so, she didn’t do a very good job,” he testified.
In addition, he said his wife was a “germaphobe”— she wore gloves so as not to touch things with her bare hands; she used large amounts of Lysol disinfectant; and she refused to let her children use public toilets.
The man also accused his wife of overspending, running up credit cards to the point that the family could no longer pay their mortgage and bills. They eventually lost the house and were forced to move in with his family.
. . .
With the split came a battle for custody between Magnotta’s mother and her own mother Phyllis Yourkin, who could be cruel and abusive with her grandchildren, but who seemed to take a shine to Magnotta, his father testified.
Magnotta, who was seven or eight years old at the time of the custody dispute, remained with his mother, who eventually moved in with another man in Toronto. This man was also abusive toward Magnotta.
“He called him a ******, he beat him up and he treated him terribly,” Magnotta’s father said.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...se_in_luka_magnotta_trial_starting_today.html

 

[Rayemonde]

I dont know what to think about his father. How can he say he does not believe his son killed Jun Lin? Is he trying to say Eric Newman didnt do this, but LM did this? Two different personalities?

No, I thought it sounded more like he's in denial - doesn't want to think that his son did such a terrible thing. He intentionally avoided asking him if he did it - presumably because he was afraid of the answer.

 

[BorgQueen]

Wow. Interesting. A WIFE?! Wasn't expecting THAT one.
I feel sad for his father. And while I don't feel much sympathy for the man Magnotta has become, I do feel sad for young Eric. What a mess of a life...
But as it was pointed out, Magnotta's father did not act on voices. He didn't kill anybody. He got help. He has been working very hard over the years to keep himself stable. It is a shame that Magnotta couldn't/wouldn't do that for himself...
(and this is kind of why NCR doesn't work for me. He IS responsible because he was NOT consistent with psychiatric care, if his undoubted mental issues have anything to do with the crime he committed. IMO)


Thanks for all the tweets! I have been out all day, and have to go back out soon (yay, Halloween...). Made things easier for me. Much appreciated!

 

[Rayemonde]

I did a bit of googling, and LM was claiming a few years ago to have a wife named Oksana.

But as it was pointed out, Magnotta's father did not act on voices. He didn't kill anybody. He got help. He has been working very hard over the years to keep himself stable. It is a shame that Magnotta couldn't/wouldn't do that for himself...
(and this is kind of why NCR doesn't work for me. He IS responsible because he was NOT consistent with psychiatric care, if his undoubted mental issues have anything to do with the crime he committed. IMO)

Yeah, I see where you're coming from but apparently a lot of people with schizophrenia have no insight into their condition. How do you know that you're acting strangely, that the voices aren't real? You use your brain to figure it out or to understand what the doctors are telling you. But in schizophrenia, the brain is not functioning correctly so it can be literally impossible for some people to realise that they are ill, or they may realise that some symptoms are due to an illness but not others. It's called Anosognosia.

a recent study used MRI to analyze relationships between patients' ability to recognize aspects of their schizophrenia and the volume of gray matter in different areas of their brains. More gray matter in certain areas of the brain was associated with greater awareness of schizophrenia. Different areas of the brain were responsible for recognizing that problems exist and making a connection between the problems and the illness.

http://www.everydayhealth.com/schizophrenia/recognizing-the-illness.aspx

I don't know if this applies to LM, of course. We do know that he saw a psychiatrist around a month before the murder, it will be very interesting to find out what he told them.

We also know that back in 2005 he was on several different medications, including two different antipsychotics (it is normally NOT recommended to give someone two antipsychotics at the same time), and one medication to relieve the side-effects of the antipsychotics. The doctors may have been having trouble relieving his symptoms - some people with schizophrenia do not respond to treatment at all, and others (like LM's dad) still have symptoms such as hearing voices but not as often, or the voices seem less intense and they are better able to ignore them. Plus, even when on meds that work for them, many people with schizophrenia still have relapses and have to go into a psychiatric hospital; these hospitalisations are just less frequent when they are on an effective medication regime.

Research has shown that adding a second drug doesn’t usually improve the outcome very much, but does increase the side effects, which can diminish your quality of life, and may even be life-threatening.

http://www.mind.org.uk/information-...ribed-and-taking-antipsychotics/#.VFP28PmsWro

 

[Rayemonde]

According to Allan Woods' courtroom tweets, one of the medications that LM's dad takes is clozapine. Clozapine is usually only prescribed for treatment-resistant schizophrenia, because it can have life-threatening side-effects.
https://twitter.com/WoodsAllan

Clozapine may cause side effects; most are minor, although some are serious and potentially fatal. Common side effects include extreme constipation, bed-wetting, night-time drooling, muscle stiffness, sedation, tremors, orthostatic hypotension, hyperglycemia, and weight gain. The risk of developing extrapyramidal symptoms such as tardive dyskinesia is below that of typical antipsychotics; this may be due to clozapine's anticholinergic effects. Extrapyramidal symptoms may subside somewhat after a person switches from another antipsychotic to clozapine.[20]
Clozapine also carries five black box warnings, including warnings for agranulocytosis, CNS depression, leukopenia, neutropenia, seizure disorder, bone marrow suppression, dementia, hypotension, myocarditis, orthostatic hypotension (with or without syncope) and seizures.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clozapine BBM

IMPORTANT WARNING:
Clozapine can cause a serious blood condition. Your doctor will order certain lab tests before you start your treatment, during your treatment, and for at least 4 weeks after your treatment. Your doctor will order the lab tests once a week at first and may order the tests less often as your treatment continues. If you experience any of the following symptoms, call your doctor immediately: extreme tiredness; weakness; fever, sore throat, chills, or other signs of flu or infection; or sores in your mouth or throat.

A program has been set up by the manufacturers of clozapine to be sure that people do not take clozapine without the necessary monitoring. You, your doctor, and your pharmacist must be registered with the program, and your pharmacist will not dispense your medication unless he or she has received the results of your blood tests.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/meds/a691001.html

So LM's dad takes this, and he still hears voices telling him to kill himself and hurt people. And if you thought you weren't ill, there's no way you'd want to take this medication.

 

[BorgQueen]

Indeed, it is a difficult illness to deal with. And it is also difficult to say whether or not he was aware any voices were not "normal". Many different doctors could have many different opinions.