Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #43

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I believe I read early on after JP was arrested that his father had visited the house a few times during which JP made JC hide under the bed and threatened her that bad things would happen if she made noises or revealed that she was there. IF JC had been discovered by PP I think JP would have murdered his own father. MOO
 
I too think this started with one of the P family mouthing the words I love you to JP and as media often does it escalated from there. Originally I thought it was his sister and not his father but who knows. I think as a parent you would be in court-maybe not even to support your child-but you would just be there. I have a grandson just a little younger than JP that is the love of my life and I try to imagine if he were to have done something as horrendous as JP has done. I would still love him but would make it very clear to him that this was wrong-his doing and he needs to be accountable for his actions-but I would be in court
I am struggling to understand why his father is being scrutinized so much. I truly believe he is devastated by his sons actions and there is Nothing he can do He has not once voiced any support for JP and just the opposite. He asked for prayers for Jayme and her family-not for his own
When Mollie Tibbets murderer was in court his aunt, uncle and baby mama were there but I don’t recall much said about them even when they said what a nice guy he was Bailey Boswells grandmother told her she loved her in open court after her granddaughter allegedly dismembered Sydney Loofe and discarded her body parts in garbage bags
So I ask this with all sincerity-what should JP’s father do.


IMO, JP's father and siblings should continue to support their son/brother by appearing as much as they want to for hearings, etc.

Hopefully PP will stay away from the media and respect "some" of the families wishes, as I understand that Jayme is their primary concern as she should be. MOO
 
Just want to point out that the OP made reference to JP's family member "calling out" that they loved him, another poster bumped that up to use the term "hollering" which then went on to someone else bumping it up to "yelling".

Gosh folks ... this is Websleuths. Please don't embellish ;)
 
And honestly, (and again), this is so Refreshing after the Watts fiasco, I’m willing to give dad a pass. It’s not like there are rules of etiquette for how to behave in this situation. I think he is doing the best he can in a very stressful situation.

Doghairrules, I agree.
The poor Dad, is doing what he thinks is best, during this stressful time.
Of coarse, he loves his son, but is shocked with his son's actions, and is expressing himself.
 
I searched the thread and the above post is apparently where I saw it reported his father "yelled" in court. Maybe @heartgoesout can recall which reporter said that? Perhaps that was the only reporter to use the word yell because now I'm not finding other reports that he "yelled" the words. :confused::oops:
It was Jean Casarez on HLN. She said she was in the court room sitting right behind the father and was explaining that many people interpreted JP's smiling as inappropriate but many people could not hear the father "yell" out we love you which prompted JP's smile. I don't believe he "yelled".
 
Just watched a reporter who was in the court room say when JP came into the courtroom his father yelled out to him prompting JP's smile. As he exited his father again yelled out, we love you, which prompted that smile.
Here is my original post. I didn't realize the word yelled would be so controversy! I did not interpret the reporter to mean he obnoxiously yelled out WE LOVE YOU. I interpreted more that the father got JP's attention by saying we love you.
The point however was this is why JP smiled.
 
Here is my original post. I didn't realize the word yelled would be so controversy! I did not interpret the reporter to mean he obnoxiously yelled out WE LOVE YOU. I interpreted more that the father got JP's attention by saying we love you.
The point however was this is why JP smiled.
Ok, but that’s not a quote from the reporter. And someone else paraphrased Jean Casarez saying they “told” him they loved him.

We just really need to be careful. If something REALLY angers you in a thread (not you - just the general you), it’s a good idea to make sure there’s even a reason to be angry before going off on a tangent. Verify information, folks.
 
Ok, but that’s not a quote from the reporter. And someone else paraphrased Jean Casarez saying they “told” him they loved him.

We just really need to be careful. If something REALLY angers you in a thread (not you - just the general you), it’s a good idea to make sure there’s even a reason to be angry before going off on a tangent. Verify information, folks.
I have no idea what conversations have been had regarding yelling and hollering and told and saying.
The father yelled out to him. That's what he did to get his attention. Whispered loudly? Spoke in a get your attention type of way? Does it even matter?
I just saw someone quote my post and ask a question.
I ain't angry bout nothin. ((Sips martini))
 
I have no idea what conversations have been had regarding yelling and hollering and told and saying.
The father yelled out to him. That's what he did to get his attention. Whispered loudly? Spoke in a get your attention type of way? Does it even matter?
I just saw someone quote my post and ask a question.
I ain't angry bout nothin. ((Sips martini))
No, you weren’t the one to get angry. But plenty of others were.
 
Jayme and her parents were ordinary people minding their own business just as most of us are, I guess.

Jayme wakes up because her dog is barking. She rouses her parents,

Mom and Jayme hear Dad get shot.

Mom and Jayme are in the bathtub with Mom hugging her beloved child,

The monster breaks in and has mom try to tape Jayme but it does not work.

He shoots mom’s head off in front of Jayme.

He hauls Jayme out the door where her dad has been shot.

She is put into the trunk and so on.

Some people wanted the death penalty for JP. Now there is sympathy? Love needed?

Who could stand to look at anyone involved with such a killer? The pain would be beyond belief.

The aunt stated something about not having to have anything to do with them.

They are obviously a very strong family, They have to be for Jayme’s sake. I cannot and do not want to imagine it
 
As a parent I can think of many things my child could do that would upset and appall me. Those would certainly include the horrible crimes done by JP but I can't think of any circumstances where I wouldn't show up for her. I can't think of a time I wouldn't tell her I love her given the opportunity. I would visit every chance I got and try to help her examine where she went wrong and repent for her crimes. In this case I would expect her to pay the price and stay in jail for life but I would want to help her live the best life she could under those circumstances and hope that she would ask God and her victims' forgiveness......but that's just me.

Very well said and very much agree with this. Loving someone and particularly one's child does not mean one endorses every choice, every behavior, or in this sad case, a seriously life altering choice, and harm and deaths of innocent people, which he also confessed to, not much room for denial. He is still their son, however, and I am sure they love him.
 
Nobody yelled it. In fact, it took awhile to find out it even happened. I believe one reporter saw them mouth, “we love you” to him, and that’s when he smiled. In fact, people thought he was smirking until we found out his smile came from this exchange that could not be heard.

People seem to be getting a little carried away in here.

It was claimed some time back and took on a life of its own. I mentioned it recently but pointed out specifically that I never heard it and had watched more than one video. I pointed out that I could hear the judge speaking so it seemed unlikely we would not be able to hear this yelled after the judge spoke and that I therefore doubted it. In fact I said "if true" I did not think it was a wise thing to do and mouthing it would be better.

I agree though, let's put that one to rest. I still thought when originally brought into this thread not long after the hearing that one media org claimed it and some poster cited it but could be wrong. It makes far more sense it was mouthed or the media would be having a field day playing the sound bite one would think.
 

“Rissman said during the seminar he wanted to emphasize that life is a series of growths and losses, and that when tragedies like this strike, it's important to grieve properly.

“What I'm hoping for Barron, Wisconsin is that this horrible tragedy is something that people grieve well and they come out the other side more resilient, more willing to get the most out of every day they have with people,” says Rissman.“
 
"The opposite of love is not hate, it is indifference."

Understanding what the above statement of truth means is one of the most important things I ever learned.
The events as they happened are outlined well here for us to keep perspective on what JP has confessed to, that we know of, which is much less than the sum total of his crimes against the Closs family, the survivor Jayme, only 13 years old, 5 feet tall, and weighing 100 pounds.

It's been asked here" Well, how would you feel/ react if it were your child?" and the automatic response has been " Appalled at what he's done but would love and support him."

Everyone's entitled to set their own parameters regarding what evil in a mind and soul they will accept.
I would choose indifference regarding the man I once gave birth to from the moment the evidence made it clear, and I was sure he'd murdered two innocent parents in cold blood and sadistically kidnapped, held and likely did horrible things to their child.. I would not support anything about him if he held a little girl captive for 88 days and only stopped because she escaped from him. I would never speak his name again. Total indifference. Whether he lived or died would no longer matter to me because of the lives he'd taken. I am not co-dependent and I am not an enabler of evil.

Birth is an event of chance, relationships ending are a matter of choice which, to me, far outweigh the chance that a killer was born because of me.We can't choose what an adult does, but we can choose how respond after it reaches the maximum of evil, the level of hurting, murdering others.

The only regrets I'd have was that he was ever born, because he was raised with an abundance of love shown and proven to him. He was in a stable home without any deprivation or violence. My deep sympathy and sorrow would only be for his victims. I'd be as much of a victim advocate for them as any other person.

He would be dead to me for the rest of his days on earth, because we are quick to cut out physical cancer but somehow feel a totally diseased mind and soul deserves different treatment if there is a genetic link to that person. I disagree. .
JP likely has never loved anyone in his life once he was old enough to choose to love or not love. I don't blame his parent or parents for loving him, nor his siblings. That's their choice, and not mine to judge. One day, I think feelings may change, like they do for many relatives of sadistic killers.

If love and concern could rehabilitate the mind of a sociopathic killer or invoke one iota of change in the most violent of all criminals, then love could rehabilitate robbers, thieves, those who wounded victims but didn't manage to kill them. Our prisons would be emptied if forgiveness, acceptance and love were all it took to rehabilitate people who likely were born with a desire to harm others.

Likewise, I neither would expect or request any support or love from any friend or family member if I went on a rampage of killing a couple where they were, shot point blank in the heads, and stepped over the man's body like debris as I was taking their child out of the house to torture. I would know exactly why I never heard from my family again. We reap what we sow. Forgiveness is not possible nor appropriate in some extreme situations, and what JP did is what I consider to be a good example of unforgivable.

Respectfully, IMO.
 
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"The opposite of love is not hate, it is indifference."

Understanding what the above statement of truth means is one of the most important things I ever learned.
The events as they happened are outlined well here for us to keep perspective on what JP has confessed to, that we know of, which is much less than the sum total of his crimes against the Closs family, the survivor Jayme, only 13 years old, 5 feet tall, and weighing 100 pounds.

It's been asked here" Well, how would you feel/ react if it were your child?" and the automatic response has been " Appalled at what he's done but would love and support him."

Everyone's entitled to set their own parameters regarding what evil in a mind and soul they will accept.
I would choose indifference regarding the man I once gave birth to from the moment the evidence made it clear, and I was sure he'd murdered two innocent parents in cold blood and sadistically kidnapped, held and likely did horrible things to their child.. I would not support anything about him if he held a little girl captive for 88 days and only stopped because she escaped from him. I would never speak his name again. Total indifference. Whether he lived or died would no longer matter to me because of the lives he'd taken. I am not co-dependent and I am not an enabler of evil.

Birth is an event of chance, relationships ending are a matter of choice which, to me, far outweigh the chance that a killer was born because of me.We can't choose what an adult does, but we can choose how respond after it reaches the maximum of evil, the level of hurting, murdering others.

The only regrets I'd have was that he was ever born, because he was raised with an abundance of love shown and proven to him. He was in a stable home without any deprivation or violence. My deep sympathy and sorrow would only be for his victims. I'd be as much of a victim advocate for them as any other person.

He would be dead to me for the rest of his days on earth, because we are quick to cut out physical cancer but somehow feel a totally diseased mind and soul deserves different treatment if there is a genetic link to that person. I disagree. .
JP likely has never loved anyone in his life once he was old enough to choose to love or not love. I don't blame his parent or parents for loving him, nor his siblings. That's their choice, and not mine to judge. One day, I think feelings may change, like they do for many relatives of sadistic killers.

If love and concern could rehabilitate the mind of a sociopathic killer or invoke one iota of change in the most violent of all criminals, then love could rehabilitate robbers, thieves, those who wounded victims but didn't manage to kill them. Our prisons would be emptied if forgiveness, acceptance and love were all it took to rehabilitate people who likely were born with a desire to harm others.

Likewise, I neither would expect or request any support or love from any friend or family member if I went on a rampage of killing a couple where they were, shot point blank in the heads, and stepped over the man's body like debris as I was taking their child out of the house to torture. I would know exactly why I never heard from my family again. We reap what we sow. Forgiveness is not possible nor appropriate in some extreme situations, and what JP did is what I consider to be a good example of unforgivable.

Respectfully, IMO.

Wow, let me see if I have the words.

First of all, I entirely get what your point is and why one would decide this. I learned the very hard way in life, and it took me a long time, that one has every right to cut themselves off from family or friends who are toxic or wish you nothing well and to NOT feel guilty about it. Your post above fits into that very same concept.

With regard to JP, I feel at 21 it would be difficult for a parent when it is their child. I am not saying they will not come to find that or that if he had never been caught that he very likely would have done the same or worse again, and one day they would need to realize and face that but I would imagine right now it is a process for them and probably a grieving process if they had no real clues as to the depths of what was going on inside of him and what he is all about.

I have come to a point in life where I try harder to recognize evil or even someone not good hearted. People who are not evil have a disadvantage--we do not think like evil, we think there are reasons or excuses, instead of distrusting after we learn there is a reason to, we offer our trust first and often right off of the bat. We make excuses, if only his childhood, or maybe if he had not suffered this or that or if I had done this or that differently, and we guilt ourselves as well as parents, children, friends, you name it.

I think it is somewhat our nature to if not minimize then to try to find a reason to explain the unexplainable. We need to know for instance something is not random so we feel safer if we live in the same area. We need to find a cause or a reason he/she is like this. I know I tend naturally towards that. We are taught to forgive. Etc. I could go on...

I do not think all criminals are inherently evil but the acts in this particular case defy almost any other logic. Even though I recognize my thought patterns are that of someone who cannot comprehend doing such a thing and I am far more awake these days than years ago in trying to open my eyes to evil, I still have to remind myself not to think about a perp or less than good person the way I think generally, like a mostly decent person would. Forgiving, understanding, not comprehending there is sometimes just pure evil without explanation. Most decent people do not get it because we do not think as they do, we have empathy, we care, we have something in us that would stop us from EVER doing such a thing. Not sure if that made sense or I worded that as well as I wanted to....

There is at the very least an absolute lack of empathy or emotion for other living creatures aside from himself to be able to commit such atrocities in cold blood and premeditated where JP is concerned. imho.

I hope I put this correctly to show I get your meaning entirely.

I do think with any family when it comes to their child it will be a process and theirs is just beginning. I think they are shedding tears and are probably absolutely devastated (giving them the benefit of the doubt as we do not know anything further) while I am very unsure that he cares one bit whatsoever but tries to act as if he does... For the family it is a grieving process that has just begun...

I do know that most parents who would have to face that their child did such a thing would be absolutely destroyed by it. And destroyed is not even the right word, I do not have a word strong enough... Maybe would be almost annihilated by it...? May be the wrong use of that word but it is the one that comes to mind...

Thank you for a different point of view; I entirely get what you mean and you are very strong to voice it as the trend is towards knowing the parents love this child and want to be there for him. I am one that has said as much. We are human and it takes a lot sometimes to see what is in front of us as we want to believe the best... Or find help... Or a reason...
 
You know, I get what you mean on this. And without getting into too much detail, I can say I have seen the opposite. Where a perp has no one and no family present. And then all say he had no one that cared and that is how he ended up that way...? Could that be part of the reason? Trying to show he did have a family that "cared"? Or guilt? I don't know but it does take some guts, so many people care how they look to others and will not get involved...

I am so back and forth on this and I readily admit it.

His timing and sentiments are wrong. I feel. PPs I mean.

I can only think of TWO reasons to show up at the hearings. One is support of your son if not endorsement of anything he did and to show they care. The other would be a hope he would not involve them or say they knew and that is very far fetched based on the facts we know.

The showing up is not going to help him get any better sentence nor get off of the charges so I would guess it is support or guilt or both. I have no idea.

We do have dad's house, sister's car, brother's example. A feeling of guilt?

I do not know, I just know how many people would not show their faces if the thought it could affect their life being on a very unpopular side of the room--and I feel that is more what mom is doing.

Then I feel guilty for judging. But that is just me and who I am...
Some of the most recent heinous murderers have had family present during hearings and trials.....
Casey Anthony, Scott Peterson, Chris Watts, Christian Rivera Mollie Tibbetts killer, the list goes on and on.

I even saw a recent interview type show with John Wayne Gacy's sister. I started watching so angry and predetermined in my mind to not really like her, to judge her, and to blame her for his actions. They would have to have known right!

By the end of the show, I had some compassion for the sister. Her quote was "I loved John as a brother, not as a murderer".

I guess my point here being, I loathe these killers as much or more than anyone, especially JP. I've never been so invested in a case as with Jayme. She touched a part of my heart and soul with her innocence and then with her strength and courage as she escaped. She gave many people a renewed Hope in general.

That said, IMO, JP's family legally has a right to be present in court. They have reached out to the Closs family and expressed sympathy. Okay once, twice pushing it. Now, attend out of love for your son, brother, etc. if you feel so inclined, but please keep the Closs name out of your mouths going forward. This is about justice for Jayme and her family, period.

JMO
 
Some of the most recent heinous murderers have had family present during hearings and trials.....
Casey Anthony, Scott Peterson, Chris Watts, Christian Rivera Mollie Tibbetts killer, the list goes on and on.

I even saw a recent interview type show with John Wayne Gacy's sister. I started watching so angry and predetermined in my mind to not really like her, to judge her, and to blame her for his actions. They would have to have known right!

By the end of the show, I had some compassion for the sister. Her quote was "I loved John as a brother, not as a murderer".

I guess my point here being, I loathe these killers as much or more than anyone, especially JP. I've never been so invested in a case as with Jayme. She touched a part of my heart and soul with her innocence and then with her strength and courage as she escaped. She gave many people a renewed Hope in general.

That said, IMO, JP's family legally has a right to be present in court. They have reached out to the Closs family and expressed sympathy. Okay once, twice pushing it. Now, attend out of love for your son, brother, etc. if you feel so inclined, but please keep the Closs name out of your mouths going forward. This is about justice for Jayme and her family, period.

JMO

I agree with absolutely every word you said here.

Jayme is the first case I followed on here, it hit hard for some reason. I read for quite awhile before I joined.

Remarking on Gacy's sister, Scott Peterson's mother, Casey Anthony, etc. I get entirely what you mean. I guess what one has to understand and most of us do is to them this is their child and they know them or perceive them differently than we do. I guess with Gacy's sister as you said, she remembers him as a brother. I can feel sympathy for the families and do oftentimes.

If I am honest, I would fight for my children if accused, if I felt the facts were not right or I felt unfairly accused or railroaded, etc. BUT JP confessed. There is no denial here, there are no other factors we know of that might mitigate this, etc. HE HIMSELF confessed. As a parent in that situation, one then has to face the horror of what your child did and there is no denial.

I have said before and will again, I do give the father and the siblings credit, it has to be incredibly difficult to be in a room that one can probably feel the animosity towards their son. They face it and they face it as a family. They have a right to be there.

I agree with you though--their son made them victims and their son made the Closses INNOCENT victims, no one did a dam*ed thing to JP, he did this to himself and to his family.

I try not to judge but I agree, quit trying to reach out. Normal grief with a natural death takes a long time to process, this will be far, far longer before I would think most are ready to hear a word from their family. I do not pretend to know and maybe I am wrong, not speaking for anyone, but that is what I would think... I sure would not be ready to hear from anyone in any way connected to JP.

ETA: JMO.
 
After some long thought re PP his & family's expressions of love and regret/ sorrow for the Closs family, I began to wonder if the Dad is the only hope for convincing JP to agree to a plea deal. "We love you Son please do the right thing for everyone."
JMO
 
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