CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #42 *ARREST*

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
Imo pleading the fifth isn’t meant to do anything but excuse you from testifying. It does not in any way infer that you are guilty or not guilty in the eyes of the law. All moo
 
nwmouse said:
Its fairly reasonable to come to the conclusion that KB was beaten to death.

A gun shot would likely not have left a tooth in a vent unless she was shot through the jaw/mouth.

There was probably brain matter that spattered as PF was swinging the bat up and down against her head whilst he beat KB to death. It may have gotten stuck in between floor boards, on walls etc. Even a minute speck in a certain location on the wall/ceiling/floor would be a tell-tale sign of a beating to death rather than a gunshot wound.

The blood spatter/brain spatter would be a different pattern if it was a gun shot that killed her.

Forensics did a pretty thorough job of searching the room for evidence of spatter that was left behind, even though KK / PF did their clean-up job.

KK stated that PF beat KB to death and that baby Kaylee was in another room.
Why would KK lie? Why would she jeopardize her sweet deal with LE to testify against PF because they would be able to find out if she WAS lying? She squealed to save her own hide from possible LWOP.

I think at this stage it would be reasonable to believe KK -- that KB was beaten to death by PF with a baseball bat. Probably the forensics will prove it.

MOO
Click to expand...
Re the slug/bullet/casing:
There has to be a reason, why PF decided to burn his victim KB, even in a trough (open fire, visible from afar, I think), leaving nothing of her behind except remains, which he collected and disposed of. I would like to know, if the burning was planned in advance or not. After all, it was another risk to be discovered.
What, if KKL had taken the tote bag with dead KB to Idaho? Would she have got an order by PF, to burn it somewhere there too?
ETA: "Re the slug/bullet/casing:"
 
Last edited by a moderator:
FromGermany said:
There has to be a reason, why PF decided to burn his victim KB, even in a trough (open fire, visible from afar, I think), leaving nothing of her behind except remains, which he collected and disposed of. I would like to know, if the burning was planned in advance or not. After all, it was another risk to be discovered.
What, if KKL had taken the tote bag with dead KB to Idaho? Would she have got an order by PF, to burn it somewhere there too?
Click to expand...
I'm not a forensic expert but PF presumably thought that burning would destroy KB's entire body, nothing left to ID her.

It makes no difference if PF had planned to burn her remains before the murder or after. My guess is before as he had been planning her slaughter for months.

Why does anyone think KB was killed with a gunshot when KK clearly told LE that KB was beaten to death by PF and forensics likely have evidence to prove it?

Perhaps PF thought if there was no body to find, LE couldn't pin the murder on him.

Why would KK take the tote with KB's remains to ID? Makes no sense.

IMO, PF thought the ranchette would be an ideal place to dispose of a corpse by burning it.

In his stupid mind he figured he could outwit LE if they couldn't find KB's body, and it backfired spectacularly.

moo
 
Last edited:
gitana1 said:
The DA elicited testimony from CBI agent Slater that KK was not present on 11-22 and arrived on 11-24.

You are pointing to statements you believe the DA brought out via testimony showing that KK's ID burner phone pinged near KB's home on 11-22, and that this was significant. And yet the defense hasn't found this out yet? (Even though they were at the prelim). And the DA didn't care about it and contradicted it totally with statements by the same witness (CBI agent Slater)? How does that make sense?

Why on earth would they elicit testimony indicating someone else was at that house on the day of the murder at a probable cause hearing for PF? That's not the way the law works. That would be what is called possible exculpatory evidence and no prosecutor would present exculpatory evidence at the prelim when trying to convince a judge there's probable cause that a particular party committed murder.

Once again, the same witness testified clearly that KK was not there the day of the murders and arrived on 11-24. It c ant get any clearer.
Click to expand...

Very well said as always Gitana.

But I can just picture the defense scrolling through this thread and screaming, “wait, how did we miss that?!”
 
MyBelle said:
I agree. Especially because of this (Tippy's notes at top of thread). Who had the Idaho number and was in Colorado on Nov. 22 if it wasn't KK?

At 4:37 pm Nov. 22, PF called an Idaho number, also in vicinity of KB’s home, it hit off a tower, southwest of KB’s townhome. He receive a return call from this number a few minutes later. It hit off the same tower, southwest of KB’s townhome. Shortly after, he received a call from that same number. Slater says it pinged off a tower in Divide.
Click to expand...
So, this means she would have come into CO on the 20th or 21st?
 
MassGuy said:
Yes. But the car was borrowed on the 23rd, and all indications are that Kelsey was murdered on the 22nd.
Click to expand...
If she KNEW KK didn't leave with the car until the 23rd and had no idea when KB died, then she was doing her duty.
UNLIKE OTHERS

If she "fudged" the date and KNEW KK WAS in the area on the 22nd she was in CYA mode and lied about when the car was borrowed!
Moo
 
gitana1 said:
This was at the beginning of the hearing before it was clearly testified to that KK was not in CO until 11-24.

So the wording made the reporter assume it was KK.

In fact, PF showed up at her home on Thanksgiving. Once again, why on earth would the DA try to elicit testimony from her about another defendant being present on CO on the day of the murders, at PF's probable cause hearing?

Ya'll. We need to use common sense. The DA isn't stupid. They prepare carefully. They wouldn't try to use the probable cause hearing to get in evidence that another possible culprit was there and thus could've been the murderer instead of the guy they're trying to bind over for trial, at that probable cause hearing.

Obviously they were trying to get SF to testify as to when PF arrived at her home on Thanksgiving.
Click to expand...


Thanks for clearing that up.
 
MyBelle said:
I think it says the phone call pinged on a tower SW of KB's townhome because it originated there.
W2go
Here's Tippy's notes about the testimony about Nov. 22:
November 22, 2018 - Thursday
(Thanksgiving)
  • KB last seen on video surveillance shopping in Safeway (noon hour)
  • KB exchanged daughter with PF (fiancé)
  • KK learned PF committed homicide
  • KB was last seen alive on Nov. 22.
  • CB says she talked to KB on the phone for about 5 minutes on Nov. 22. During CB and KB’s conversation KB had asked for a bread recipe because her and PF had plans to go out with Baby K for Thanksgiving dinner, but she wanted to a dip recipe from CB if something happened. Slater says, per CB, KB didn’t talk about relationship problems.
  • CB told Slater there was another conversation at 9:17 a.m. with Kelsey. Slater says that conversation was about Christmas plans. Nothing about visiting family in Washington state or Idaho though.
  • CB told Slater on the evening of Nov. 22, CB says she received texts from KB’s phone that she got her gun back & felt safe now with PF.
  • KB was last seen on the Safeway surveillance video about 12:27 p.m. KB’s purchased items for dip and flowers at Safeway. KB was next seen in her car on surveillance video from Williams Bros Furniture, at 12:37 approaching her townhome.
  • PF was seen on Walmart & Williams Furniture Store surveillance, and on Arlo camera by KB’s neighbor caught KB, baby K and PF at KB’s door at 1:34 p.m.
  • Adams: another surveillance video showing PF at KB’s residence at 3:36 p.m.
  • Slater said KK told him PF contacted her, and she knew that he had killed KB.
  • Courtroom testimony from CBI agent: KK says PF told her that he covered KB’s eyes with a sweater for a guessing game to guess candle scents. PF used a bat to assault KB, beating her and kill her.
  • Slater: KK says PF put KB in a black tote and set that on the ground near the green Toyota before putting it in the back of his truck & transporting her remains to Nash Ranch in Fremont County, CO. PF placed the black tote that KB’s body was in on top of haystacks in a barn at Nash Ranch.
  • During the crime, KK told Slater the couple’s 1-year-old daughter was in a room nearby, according to his testimony.
  • The murder, according to KK (through PF), happened in a back office/second bedroom.
  • According to testimony PF left the murder scene and then went to have Thanksgiving dinner with his family. Later, he allegedly returned to collect KB’s body and burned it.
  • PF went to Thanksgiving dinner with his family that same night, according to Slater’s testimony.
  • Slater says PF put KB’s body in black bag in truck — and drove to celebrate Thanksgiving with family.
  • Phone records show 12:30 both PF and KB’s phones show location at KB’s apartment. Both phones were traveling together later that day. Later that evening phone towers showed both phones together again
  • Then later that evening, Adams says the phones were together and pinged west of Cripple Creek. Adams says PF called KK and his mother SF on Nov. 22.
  • Agents found PF called his mother on Nov. 22 around 4:24 p.m. They determined his phone pinged off a tower near KBs townhome, heading west from there.
  • Adams wrote search warrants for both KB and PF’s phones to Verizon. He says there were a few phone calls between the phones on Nov. 22. Adams says cell tower data showed they were in the vicinity of KB’s townhome. Later that day, they pinged near Divide.
  • Phone records show KB’s phone and PF’s phone were together the entire day on Nov 22. Records show both phones move west, go off the grid, come back on at a later time. The phones are shown heading toward Cripple Creek. They go dark once again.
  • Slater says it’s his understanding that KB’s phone was in close proximity to PF’s phone. They were moving west from Woodland Park toward Divide, then later that night toward Florissant & Cripple Creek.
  • At 4:37 pm Nov. 22, PF called an Idaho number, also in vicinity of KB’s home, it hit off a tower, southwest of KB’s townhome. He receive a return call from this number a few minutes later. It hit off the same tower, southwest of KB’s townhome. Shortly after, he received a call from that same number. Slater says it pinged off a tower in Divide.
  • Referencing the Idaho number belonged to KK, state asks if PF contacting that number became important, knowing that was near the last ping of KB’s phone. Slater said yes, then they tried contacting her.
  • CBI agent testified that at 4:24 p.m. on Nov. 22 PF’s phone called his mother. At 4:37 p.m. it called KK. Cell towers show he was southwest of KB‘s home.
  • Adams says he also recovered video of PF at the drive through of Ent Credit Union. He says he couldn’t see the baby in the truck, but did see a baby carrier.
  • Two more exhibits from the state. First is a still of PF on the surveillance at the bank showing him. Second shows the back of his truck, with a black tote in it. He says they learned that tote played a big role in what happened to KB
  • Adams says he talked to PF’s brother, a Colorado Springs police officer as part of the investigation. Sean (unsure of spelling) says he saw PF on Nov. 22 & didn’t describe anything as suspicious that day. It doesn’t say exactly when PF arrived for Thanksgiving. Sean says he got there around 2:30 p.m., and that PF arrived a little later. He had baby K with him. Defense says PF’s brother would be aware of things out of the ordinary. since he is a CO Springs police officer. Prosecution says Sean and Patrick have estranged relationship.
  • KK spoke with PF at 4:30 p.m. PF texted KK asking for her to call him. PF eventually called KK, saying, she had to get to CO because she had a mess to clean up. KK interpreted that as KB was dead.
  • KK said she couldn’t come out right away, realizing what happened. Slater says PF said, “Just *advertiser censored**ing talk.” He made it clear to KK that she needed to bring things with her to “clean up”.
  • Slater says PF told KK,“You don’t know how hard it was to have Thanksgiving dinner after killing her. “
Click to expand...
Maybe the wording should be changed in those notes because it does make it sound like the phone that pinged was the phone from Idaho. It refers to PF's phone as "it" and also the Idaho phone as "it."
It should be clarified that the pings they are referring to are only PF's phone and KB's phone, to determine their location and show they were together.
It's causing some confusion. Imo
 
What did I just wake up to.

Facts matter: KK was In Idaho during the time of the murder.

It can be twisted and spun however you want, but the state has stated many times that PF contacted kk in Idaho. They have also said specifically that kk was not in Colorado that day. and I’m sure the State can prove it.

This was not some big ahh haa moment.

I think I may need something stiffer than coffee....
 
Last edited:
Yellow Rose said:
Imo pleading the fifth isn’t meant to do anything but excuse you from testifying. It does not in any way infer that you are guilty or not guilty in the eyes of the law. All moo
Click to expand...

I think it's a bit more than that. You would only be able to take the fifth if testifying would incriminate you. You wouldn't be able to take the fifth merely to avoid testifying.
 
Artis said:
I respectfully disagree. I believe it was CB2 who noticed blood in Kelsey's bathroom. Then they come back with the Luminol or whatever and the murder scene is established. Not compatible with life", IIRC. They had Frazee on the neighbor's security cam - after he said they exchanged the baby and he's the last known person to have seen her alive. Then they have his lies to CB. That's all before LE visits to see/talk to KK.
Click to expand...
Yet they did say that without KK, they wouldn't have any idea which room KB was killed in.
Most importantly they have his confession to her, which is crucial when there is no body. Imo
 
gitana1 said:
This was at the beginning of the hearing before it was clearly testified to that KK was not in CO until 11-24.

So the wording made the reporter assume it was KK.

In fact, PF showed up at her home on Thanksgiving. Once again, why on earth would the DA try to elicit testimony from her about another defendant being present on CO on the day of the murders, at PF's probable cause hearing?

Ya'll. We need to use common sense. The DA isn't stupid. They prepare carefully. They wouldn't try to use the probable cause hearing to get in evidence that another possible culprit was there and thus could've been the murderer instead of the guy they're trying to bind over for trial, at that probable cause hearing.

Obviously they were trying to get SF to testify as to when PF arrived at her home on Thanksgiving.
Click to expand...

Thank you! For being a voice of reason!
 
Good morning. I have been thinking... and if KK was so damn afraid, couldn't she have just taken some photos of that horrific crime scene (and everything else for that matter, when PF wasn't looking) and gone right to the police? I wonder if she did take any photos. And if she didn't, why the hell not?

Also I think SF would have talked in court and placed the blame on KK if PF was at all innocent. Since she pled the 5th I also think she's up to her ears in the disposal (if not helping plan) and the cover-up of poor KB's senseless murder. I believe this because of the way SF jumped to gain FULL custody of Baby K (away from the Berreths) after the fact. She was going to complete the main motive for that murder for him. imo.

MOO

That is all. Have a great Friday and weekend ahead friends!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 162 more.
Total: 3,669 (members: 163, guests: 3,506)

Online statistics

Members online
163
Guests online
3,506
Total visitors
3,669
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
592,480
Messages
17,969,476
Members
228,781
Latest member
ChasF419
Back
Top