Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #11

[PostTruth]

It seems that if the police didn't know the man on the newly announced surveillance footage is, they'd ask for the public's assistance to identify them. No? Was the man possibly one of the real estate agents?

 

[MistyWaters]

It seems that if the police didn't know the man on the newly announced surveillance footage is, they'd ask for the public's assistance to identify them. No? Was the man possibly one of the real estate agents?

If what the neighbour reported was true, why a male realtor would enter the Sherman home alone and without clients raises serious questions. The listing realtor is female.

I think we can only play guessing games as to the possible identity of the man but not to miss the forest for the trees —- this is positive news, that a security video camera was possibly pointed toward the Sherman driveway, aligned well enough to also capture entrance into the residence. What’s most important is the date of Dec 13th.

Perhaps the purpose of the information is not expecting or requiring the public’s assistance, but just to rattle the killer?

 

[Arnie M]

The Sherman’s were targeted, nobody else has to worry. The killers are likely in another country by now.

.

A contract killer would never risk all the exposure of being in a home like that and under those circumstances.

Two seconds and two bullets in a parking lot would be more like it.

That goes for any (outsider) killer(s) or enemies (of the Sherman's) ..... they would never risk being so exposed to potential home security systems , cameras , neighbor cameras , neighbor witnesses , cleaning staff coming and going , real estate people coming and going .

Not to mention knowing when the Sherman's would be home that night ..... heck , the Shermans likely did not even know themselves , sounds like a quickly arranged meeting with the architect , and even after the meeting they went their separate ways.

Couple of months ago I made a list of all those types of snags regarding an "outside murderer" and all the intimate knowledge required about the home and security etc. It was a long list .

No "outside killer" would have taken those chances.

For that reason I still lean toward the original reports of murder suicide.

Thank you

 

[PostTruth]

If what the neighbour reported was true, why a male realtor would enter the Sherman home alone and without clients raises serious questions. The listing realtor is female.

I think we can only play guessing games as to the possible identity of the man but not to miss the forest for the trees —- this is positive news, that a security video camera was possibly pointed toward the Sherman driveway, aligned well enough to also capture entrance into the residence. What’s most important is the date of Dec 13th.

Perhaps the purpose of the information is not expecting or requiring the public’s assistance, but just to rattle the killer?

Points well-taken. Thank you. I suppose there might be much more footage from that camera, helpful to the investigation, than the public knows. Also, yes, the listing realtor is female but if memory serves me correctly I think one of the agents showing the home was male and present there when the bodies were found.

If in fact the person responsible for the murders was the one on the driveway, it'd certainly betray them as amateurs. There's no way they'd be a professional criminal, much less as serious contract killer.

 

[MistyWaters]

Points well-taken. Thank you. I suppose there might be much more footage from that camera, helpful to the investigation, than the public knows. Also, yes, the listing realtor is female but if memory serves me correctly I think one of the agents showing the home was male and present there when the bodies were found.

If in fact the person responsible for the murders was the one on the driveway, it'd certainly betray them as amateurs. There's no way they'd be a professional criminal, much less as serious contract killer.

Yes the realtor with the Asian clients was male. But there’s absolutely no reason for a realtor to visit a home by himself a day prior to a showing.

My opinion is this wasn’t a contract killing because of the staging involved inside the residence. A professional assassin has no reason to cause deception or confuse the crime scene because causing death is the sole goal. It was personal and the Shermans knew their killer IMO.

It’s not out of the realm of possibility the killer returned to the crime scene a day later to take a second look, knowing the murders hadn’t yet been discovered.

 

[PostTruth]

Yes the realtor with the Asian clients was male. But there’s absolutely no reason for a realtor to visit a home by himself a day prior to a showing.

My opinion is this wasn’t a contract killing because of the staging involved inside the residence. A professional assassin has no reason to cause deception or confuse the crime scene because causing death is the sole goal. It was personal and the Shermans knew their killer IMO.

It’s not out of the realm of possibility the killer returned to the crime scene a day later to take a second look, knowing the murders hadn’t yet been discovered.

Great observations. Thank you. The last point you make makes total sense.

 

[PostTruth]

Yes the realtor with the Asian clients was male. But there’s absolutely no reason for a realtor to visit a home by himself a day prior to a showing.

My opinion is this wasn’t a contract killing because of the staging involved inside the residence. A professional assassin has no reason to cause deception or confuse the crime scene because causing death is the sole goal. It was personal and the Shermans knew their killer IMO.

It’s not out of the realm of possibility the killer returned to the crime scene a day later to take a second look, knowing the murders hadn’t yet been discovered.

Got me thinking now whether that person on the driveway is the police's prime suspect. If it is, I'm wondering what they're missing to make an arrest. Thanks again.

 

[casesensitive]

Det. Sgt. Susan Gomes did say at the press conference, that they had surveillance camera video of "people in the area". I assumed that this fact was one reason why they determined that this was a targeted, double murder, and that is certainly what she was implying.

 

[MistyWaters]

Got me thinking now whether that person on the driveway is the police's prime suspect. If it is, I'm wondering what they're missing to make an arrest. Thanks again.

I’ve been wondering what they’re missing too. Maybe it’s only a matter of dotting a few more i’s and crossing t’s and what ever it takes to ensure a strong prosecution. I hope so.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

It seems that if the police didn't know the man on the newly announced surveillance footage is, they'd ask for the public's assistance to identify them. No? Was the man possibly one of the real estate agents?

I think the police might know who it was. It could have been a worker of some type. Or someone from Apotex or connected to HS checking up on them. They could have phoned to seek permission to access the home via the lockbox.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

.

A contract killer would never risk all the exposure of being in a home like that and under those circumstances.

Two seconds and two bullets in a parking lot would be more like it.

That goes for any (outsider) killer(s) or enemies (of the Sherman's) ..... they would never risk being so exposed to potential home security systems , cameras , neighbor cameras , neighbor witnesses , cleaning staff coming and going , real estate people coming and going .

Not to mention knowing when the Sherman's would be home that night ..... heck , the Shermans likely did not even know themselves , sounds like a quickly arranged meeting with the architect , and even after the meeting they went their separate ways.

Couple of months ago I made a list of all those types of snags regarding an "outside murderer" and all the intimate knowledge required about the home and security etc. It was a long list .

No "outside killer" would have taken those chances.

For that reason I still lean toward the original reports of murder suicide.

Thank you

What about an ‘inside killer’. Someone close to the Shermans.
If you have a copy of that list you mentioned, I’d be interested in reading it.

 

[Tripod]

I think the police might know who it was. It could have been a worker of some type. Or someone from Apotex or connected to HS checking up on them. They could have phoned to seek permission to access the home via the lockbox.

This IS an interesting tidbit of info, isn't it? At first thought, it would seem to me that LE most likely already determined the identity of that man in the car some time ago. But then again, the Shermans would have been deceased at the time that man went inside the house, so... I don't know what to make of it.

 

[human]

My neighbor has some nice cameras because he had several burglaries.

The camera clearly caught the burglar but he was wearing a head covering.

My neighbor figured out who the guy is. The population here is small and the guy lives a mile away so it was easier for him.

Perhaps the man has lots in terms of disguise,

 

[Tortoise]

My sense is that the murders may have been a two-man job.

I think one would have been on lookout for Barry's return while Honey was being dealt with by the pool, and that they couldn't have predicted that Barry and Honey wouldn't return home at the same time with the complication of them possibly using different entrances to the home, one via the garage and the other via the front door. I do think each was taken by surprise and swiftly, to prevent any chance of escape or phone call for help.

If there are arrests I think this could develop into a case of two men blaming each other for the actual murders.

JMO

 

[rickcross]

.

A contract killer would never risk all the exposure of being in a home like that and under those circumstances.

Two seconds and two bullets in a parking lot would be more like it.

That goes for any (outsider) killer(s) or enemies (of the Sherman's) ..... they would never risk being so exposed to potential home security systems , cameras , neighbor cameras , neighbor witnesses , cleaning staff coming and going , real estate people coming and going .

Not to mention knowing when the Sherman's would be home that night ..... heck , the Shermans likely did not even know themselves , sounds like a quickly arranged meeting with the architect , and even after the meeting they went their separate ways.

Couple of months ago I made a list of all those types of snags regarding an "outside murderer" and all the intimate knowledge required about the home and security etc. It was a long list .

No "outside killer" would have taken those chances.

For that reason I still lean toward the original reports of murder suicide.

Thank you

Thats a really interesting point. Thanks!

 

[rickcross]

What’s most important is the date of Dec 13th.

Post from ldlager last week...

This story was originally reported over a week ago- I heard it first on CFRB 1010 radio early/mid last week, on the same day that the story about demolishing the house came out. This story about the video was originally promoted by the local media as a major development, because the neighbor said that they had given the video to LE, and that LE hadn't bothered to investigate it- the media was questioning why LE hadn't acted on it. Then sanity prevailed- firstly, how would anyone know whether the police had acted on it or not? Then CFRB reported that the neighbor admitted that in fact the video had been shot a week or two prior to the murders having taken place, NOT the day before they were discovered. Finally, the media accepted that it could be someone as innocent as a realtor waiting for clients, the cleaning people, etc. Given all this doubt and uncertainty , the story was quickly dropped from CFRB's news reports.
I know the article linked above indicates the video was from the day before the bodies were found, but I believe this is inaccurate- the details about the man in a car, getting in and out of the car, etc. are the same as what was reported by CFRB, and subsequently dismissed, so this is likely the same incident.

So assuming ldlager's post is correct, what exactly do we know?

- There was a security camera pointed at the Sherman home.
- The neighbour reviewed the tape, going back at least a week or two
- The only thing out of the ordinary occurred one or two weeks prior to the crime
- Nobody was seen approaching the residence or entering the residence in the day prior to the crime.

As there were no signs of forced entry it has been speculated that the killer either entered using the lockbox, or waited and ambushed Honey as she returned home. It seems this video didn't show either of those things happening. So how did the killer get in the house?

 

[human]

Do you think police reveal everything they know?

 

[rickcross]

Do you think police reveal everything they know?

Of course not, but one can use common sense to make logical conclusions based upon fact.

For instance, the fact that this woman mentioned only the incident that happened a week or more than the crime indicates that there likely was nothing out of the ordinary after that. She obviously reviewed the footage, so if she'd seen somebody lurking around on Dec 14, why wouldn't she ask the reporter about that? Do you think it is likely that the security footage shows somebody at the house at about the time of the crime?

 

[dotr]

House belonging to Barry and Honey Sherman to be demolished
"March 19 2019
On Tuesday, North York City Council approved a request by the family to level the house.

A representative of the family said the home can be demolished in three to four weeks.

An application for a demolition permit for 50 Old Colony Rd. was submitted Feb. 11 by a representative of the family."

Judging by the 2 comments following article, not everyone thinks it is a good idea, imo.
Sherman family gets OK to demolish murder mansion
"A representative for the family said it would take a month to tear down the home and agreed to landscape the lot with sod."

 

[MistyWaters]

Do you think police reveal everything they know?

The killer/s would sure wish for that.

The news of a security camera panned on the driveway and entrance is very significant. Because if a suspect was sighted entering the Sherman residence in or around the time of the double homicides regardless of any disguise, out goes a defence based on m/s.

Onward from there though, I can’t help but be reminded of Kerry Winter’s accomplice/helper theory.