Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #103

[Cutiekitty]

I feel like LEO are da*ned if they do, and da*ned if they don’t. Can only imagine what it’s like for those who know WAYYYYYYY more than we do, or maybe ever will. As I’ve said before, if I were the victim, I’d want them on my side searching for this creep. I don’t think they see this as a “game,” and reality isn’t tv. I rather them take the necessary time to get an airtight case...rather than details get out and the wrong person be taken to trial. JMO

Eta: spelling

YES! 100% agree.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

Haaa. I didn’t mean to imply that you were implying that the girls could have done more.

My point was that capturing him on audio and video, shows how smart they were. Doing something sneaky with the phone, wasn’t necessary.

As for the shoes. That’s subjective I suppose. I’m not reading anything into the question about what color the shoes were.

I’m of the opinion that they were on their feet, and not lying separately.

Good thoughts!

I think that when this is all over and BG has been arrested some of these details will matter very little to us all.

Right now its kind of all we can do to 'help'. Discuss....speculate and analyze everything to death. Again and again.

Ultimately...all most of us care about here is seeing 'ARREST' next to this thread title.

JMO

 

[ab01]

Haaa. I didn’t mean to imply that you were implying that the girls could have done more.

My point was that capturing him on audio and video, shows how smart they were. Doing something sneaky with the phone, wasn’t necessary.

As for the shoes. That’s subjective I suppose. I’m not reading anything into the question about what color the shoes were.

I’m of the opinion that they were on their feet, and not lying separately.

yah i agree, I think they were likely found on her feet, As the context of the conversation seems to be they found the girls and then asked what shoes she was wearing.

If they were found somewhere else I don't think the conversation that KG relayed would have been in the same context

JMO

 

[Mind your biscuits]

Good thoughts!

I think that when this is all over and BG has been arrested some of these details will matter very little to us all.

Right now its kind of all we can do to 'help'. Discuss....speculate and analyze everything to death. Again and again.

Ultimately...all most of us care about here is seeing 'ARREST' next to this thread title.

JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

@bradfordsleuth for some reason I’m messing up quoting your post #1319

I think not allowing anyone near the bodies other than the searcher/s is probably an organized search protocol as well. Whether or not the searcher knew a double homicide had occurred by visual observation, it’s be prudent that the bodies not be touched or moved nor a potential crime scene contaminated beyond the presence of the searchers until LE and the coroner arrived on site.

 

[ab01]

@bradfordsleuth for some reason I’m messing up quoting your post #1319

I think not allowing anyone near the bodies other than the searcher/s is probably an organized search protocol as well. Whether or not the searcher knew a double homicide had occurred by visual observation, it’s be prudent that the bodies not be touched or moved nor a potential crime scene contaminated beyond the presence of the searchers until LE and the coroner arrived on site.

Agreed and the speculation that searchers disturbed the crime scene and destroyed evidence its just BS in my opinion

When the girls were found it was an organized search and the searchers had no doubt been instructed IMO

 

[bradfordsleuth]

Agreed and the speculation that searchers disturbed the crime scene and destroyed evidence its just BS in my opinion

When the girls were found it was an organized search and the searchers had no doubt been instructed IMO

Sorry. I am confused.

I never speculated about searchers disturbing the crime scene or destroying evidence!

 

[ab01]

Sorry. I am confused.

I never speculated about searchers disturbing the crime scene or destroying evidence!

I was responding to @MistyWaters

Not directed at you whatsoever

eta: sometimes when things trigger something in my head i just respond to said post without looking at previous context of said conversation

 

[bradfordsleuth]

I was responding to @MistyWaters

Not directed at you whatsoever

I am sorry. I misinterpreted your post.

 

[thesensitivechild]

I don’t think he has any friends.

I’m not buying that there are several people covering for him either.

No double child killer is worth that.

Hopefully we get an answer some

I also believe it went into her pocket as the crime started...but I think she left it in her sock or shoe near the end so it would be found by someone later on.

That kid sure was smart!

JMO

could he have asked them to take off their shoes in order to cross the water. I don’t think so, but if one wants to believe her shoe was found perhaps another explanation could be that BG demanded (or suggested- we don’t know with 100 percent at what point they were attacked or threatened completely) they remove their shoes to cross the creek so they wouldn’t have wet foot gear (who knows, weird controlling quirk? Misguided attempt to seem friendly? I’m totally not right on this the more I think it over) On the other side no time to properly put shoes back on or fully tie them? This is neither here nor there, just a thought that would a. Make me have to consider the rumor that a shoe was found b. Make me reconsider some of the specifics behind what we just assume based on what has been presented and what makes most sense. (ETA my sentences make no sense. Poop). truly doubt this happened.



ETA: @MassGuy I had meant to respond earlier to you in regard to that I agree with the notion that he isn’t some popular guy moonlighting as a pastor. He could have a fine job, although I doubt that. I think he has very few “friends”, if any. To me acquaintances are not to be considered friends here. I think he is unremarkable and antisocial. As a side note I often wonder if no one actually saw BG that day. That seems like a possibility, although I hope it isn’t the case. I also question the extent to which they have DNA, if any of BG, and have for the past 20 months or so. It concerns me. I haven’t given up hope that they can find him however.

 

[MistyWaters]

Agreed and the speculation that searchers disturbed the crime scene and destroyed evidence its just BS in my opinion

When the girls were found it was an organized search and the searchers had no doubt been instructed IMO

Good point! I can imagine an “unorganized” scenario where family is requested to visually ID the bodies, next comes friends and other relatives to comfort and console them, then others notice a gathering and their curiosity gets the best of them.... soon there’s 30 or 40 people gathered right there. Any criticism of the searchers is misguided imo, they did what they were required to do.

 

[Krwiley60]

We don't know that they were ordered down the hill. Maybe he was saying, "I just came down the hill." It could be an order, as you say, but it could be part of a

Yes I think you are.

Agree.
ETA: not quite sure what happened to this post and why Blue shoe was quoted. @MistyWaters I was agreeing to your post!

 

[Krwiley60]

Delete

 

[AryaStark]

Words cannot express how frustrating this case is. I mean, cases have been solved with much less than sketches and A/V. Someone in that community needs to grow a conscience and speak up. JMO

 

[heyjudette]

Thanks for replying MistyWaters. Yeah I’ve been wondering if any of the witnesses saw ANY man out there dressed like photograph BG. It’s odd that nobody saw a man dressed like him. Somehow he got to the bridge without anyone seeing him. This whole thing is so bizarre. MOO

Agreed. Really makes me wonder how he got to the bridge/what direction he was coming from/what direction he left... was he lying in wait?

I keep checking back here everyday hoping for an update. I’m going to continue doing that. Thanks to everyone on here for continuing to keep this discussion alive.

 

[BNA]

Yah I don’t believe anyone is covering for him either! Yet I’m still confused why nobody has put two and two together

Most likely because the person that needs to put 2 and 2 together is absolutely unaware that 2 and 2 need to be put together. JMO.

 

[dub]

I'm curious what others think about this.

BG had to of seen that Libby and Abby were together. So in his mind, as he was walking across that bridge or beforehand, his decision to act included that fact. He acted in broad daylight and on a public trail with the odds of two against one. Even if he had a gun or knife he still had two to his one.

My question is what sort of person does that? Is he just so bold, confident and so enamored with himself or is he on the other side of the spectrum, throws caution to the wind because he's self-loathing, spontaneously just acts on his feelings and if I get caught so what type of killer?

From reading around, double murders seem to happen in a home by someone known to the victims or if outside, like Son of Sam, at night. I'm finding it hard to find another instance of a double murder outside in a public area in broad daylight. Spree killers like to use separate locations and not much time in between, serial killers have some cooling off period between victims. Other than murderous couples who kill two people at once, I don't see this type of double murder being written about.

The closest thing I can think of to the parameters you described is the Lake Berryessa Zodiac murder.

Technically it wasn't a double murder because one of the two victims survived, but otherwise it fits.

A couple notes from that murder related to speculation in this one:

-Zodiac went out of his way to conceal his identity in that case.

-he used a gun to gain compliance but then attacked the couple with a knife once they were subdued.

Also interesting to note that that was not only two adults, but one which was, to my understanding, a VERY large man. I read somewhere the guy was like 6'7".

 

[BNA]

I think it could be as simple as—they were lying face down, or faces covered in some way. The situation is still terrible, but no need torturing ourselves by imagining it worse than it might be.

I figure he probably posed them. That is not uncommon.

Carter's comments 1 month ago at the PC gave me that impression right off.

 

[PaulaDC]

Just listened to this Kelsi German interview. Now I know where the movie reference of The Shack came from, also her opinion is the killer was local. I wonder if when reviewing the case LE listened to her thoughts......I was surprised when Kelsi reveals her Grandparents heard more of the recording.

 

[What if...]

I think you are right that they have figured out who the OBG is and it is not him who committed the murders. MOO

I also believe they have identified OBG.

IMO, it’s the only way the change to the NBG sketch would make any sense. LE has stated that the sketches are of two different people, yet they are no longer requesting information regarding OBG. Even if LE received new information that has pointed them in this “new direction”, I believe they would still be looking for OBG as he was on the trails that day and would still be considered an important potential witness even if they no longer considered him a POI.

Pure speculation on my part, but I think OBG had his own reasons for not wanting to be identified. Those reasons could be anything from his own illegal activities to actually witnessing the murders. (IIRC, LE stated to the killer something along the lines of “you made mistakes - there are witnesses”)
Perhaps he was there and was following the girls, but for reasons other than murder.

Once he was identified, I think it’s very possible that not only was he cleared, but very probable that he is the one that provided additional information that has now thrown NBG into the spotlight.

In my attempt to make sense of it all, I believe that the witness that provided the sketch of NBG only 3 days after the murders reported something he/she saw that occurred somewhere other than the trails that day. Far enough from the crime scene that it was discounted as improbable due to the tight time line. (This would also account for LE’s belief that he was able to move around quickly)

OBG gets identified and provides a description of the person he saw on the trails that day, and that description is a near match to the NBG sketch.

MOO and best theory I have at the moment...

On a side note, it really makes me wonder what was witnessed that was relevant enough for LE to take the time to develop the sketch in the first place...?? Something else to ponder