Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #110

[moonlessnight]

I have taken your point and reviewed the video frame by frame. The supposed camera unit does move along with his head. There are 2 frames when he turns his head to the R slightly where it appears the camera unit does not move, but it moves in all other frames along the same angle as his head movements.

Thank you for pointing this out - I am now more convinced whatever is in front of his face and neck is attached to his head or face due to the synchronized movements of his head and the device/unit.

When i looked closely, I have to wonder why the camera does not move when he moves his head/chin in the video. I wanted to believe, but I do not think there is a gopro mount .

 

[squareandrabbet]

Since the last two press conferences I saw were heavily scripted (as they should be) with bullet points and statements, there was some reason for the two (what I call odd) comments:

1) "Who may be in the room." - Was this just a way of saying that this person (hiding in clear sight), they have no idea who they are but they know they are following the case and may be even sending taunting notes to LE? LE seems more angry to me than just frustrated. Angry that the person is clearly following the case? and sending answers perhaps to LE from previous press conferences to answer questions. Just a guess.

2) "Hiding in plain sight". This to me is an indication that the person is blending right back into their regular job after this crime. Someone that hides in plain sight could be someone who is manipulative and cunning. Other than throwing away the jacket and pants, someone who did not get their hair cut, grow a beard, or anything else to disguise their appearance, thus not alarms set off with people around him. He might be a chuckling good actor who maybe laughs at someone saying "where were you on Feb 14th?" This is possibly someone you would never think would kill two girls like that. The other thing that popped into my mind is this is a person with a very good alibi who they can't link to the crime scene because they didn't get good enough DNA from the crime scene.

I'm sure this has already been broached as a possibility somewhere in the threads; but how about if it's literal? What about if it's "LE suspects someone else in LE"; or they suspect that it's a member of the media; or that they just can't prove whomever it is well enough to nail that person beyond a reasonable doubt? Who else would be attending said press conferences, outside of law enforcement, media, and maybe family/close friends of the girls' families?

 

[Sugarcane18]

I'm sure this has already been broached as a possibility somewhere in the threads; but how about if it's literal? What about if it's "LE suspects someone else in LE"; or they suspect that it's a member of the media; or that they just can't prove whomever it is well enough to nail that person beyond a reasonable doubt? Who else would be attending said press conferences, outside of law enforcement, media, and maybe family/close friends of the girls' families?

Interesting speculation and makes sense with Carter's comments of, "You want to know what we know." Media personnel and journalists and news anchors definitely want to (innocently) know what LE knows about the story they are covering so that they can report on it. Could also double for nefarious reasons as well.

I personally don't think BG is one of these persons. I'm sure people in Delphi watch the news and would recognize if he were a news anchor or reporter, etc.

However, many news articles and stories are written by people behind the scenes who never get in front of the camera. Interesting speculation, thanks for sharing.

Jmo.

 

[tresir2012]

That's what I was wondering, For the local, state and federal LE to act on just a tip or even two, those tips would have to be pretty darn convincing, I would think, to generate probable cause in front of a judge to raid someone's property. I wish I could ask my Dad, state LE for 34 years, but he's passed on. Appreciate your opinion.

Early on there were 70 warrants and subpoenas issued. Some of the search locations are in the Case Map on page 1. Some locations were BBR and RL property, Peru and Lebanon IIRC. We have heard of phones being handed over as well so some of the subpoenas could have been for phone info.

 

[tresir2012]

I really think if the perp had a camera, or a gas mask or something the girls would have mentioned it the recording. But police report that conversation to be what normal girls talk about. If there was something so unusual about him like a mouth camera, or dare I say a goat in his coat, or a horse halter on him. They would have said ‘look at the weirdo with a goat and respirator’ that would have been so unique the police would have quickly asked the public for tips on a perp with oxygen equipment or farm animals. Along the same lines if it was a person known to them I would think they would say to one another look at Tom, or John or Mr so n so. Why is he following. And that would have been recorded in the ‘girl talk’. Moo

Re the horse halter, I didn't mean he was wearing it but had it shoved down his jacket with some of it sticking up from his jacket.

 

[mtnlites]

Interesting speculation and makes sense with Carter's comments of, "You want to know what we know." Media personnel and journalists and news anchors definitely want to (innocently) know what LE knows about the story they are covering so that they can report on it. Could also double for nefarious reasons as well.

I personally don't think BG is one of these persons. I'm sure people in Delphi watch the news and would recognize if he were a news anchor or reporter, etc.

However, many news articles and stories are written by people behind the scenes who never get in front of the camera. Interesting speculation, thanks for sharing.

Jmo.

That statement about wanting to know what they know could also apply to everyone on these true crime forums, blogs, Facebook groups, Twitter accounts, etc. There's a request or complaint for "more information" on a daily basis. And who knows, he may be someone in one of those groups doing the demanding.

 

[mtnlites]

I actually heard a video of the family talking about how they had discussed putting a GoPro on a stick and searching the water before they found the girls.

Not insinuating that family had anything to do with it, but making the point that GoPro's are very popular and common.

GoPros themselves are extraordinarily popular. Last Christmas they were Best Buy's #1 selling item and one of Amazon's. GoPros with mouth mounts are a different story.

 

[Justice101]

GoPros themselves are extraordinarily popular. Last Christmas they were Best Buy's #1 selling item and one of Amazon's. GoPros with mouth mounts are a different story.

yes, I have a poor man's version of a GoPro 4K - it is actually amazing. I mount it on my helmet or a body harness when I go mountain biking. I post some of the videos with background music on youtube. These small waterproof cameras are amazing.

 

[mtnlites]

yes, I have a poor man's version of a GoPro 4K - it is actually amazing. I mount it on my helmet or a body harness when I go mountain biking. I post some of the videos with background music on youtube. These small waterproof cameras are amazing.

They really are. We have a "regular" one and then one we use for business (YouTube videos, marketing, etc.) We actually have fun mounting them in our car during roadtrips. We record a lot of the drive (we record us, not the road) and when the trip's over I edit the whole thing down to about 15 minutes. It's good fun, and I like documenting these times with my kids.

I know this isn't definitive, but I have visited the "dark web" (people who actually go on it don't call it the "dark web", the refer to it as the "sub level") and I have some connections to people who work in cyber crimes. Back about a year ago when people were wondering if he'd filmed the girls' murders so that he could upload them to the sub, I talked to the people I know about it and put out feelers. There's been nothing uncovered down there that relates to the girls'murder (other than a chat board which is actually pretty tame considering). Still nothing. They've singled out some crazy things down there, all kinds of recorded criminal acts, but though Delphi is on alert nothing in the sub has popped up on them. There are certain areas down there that are home to really vile things, but a video of the murders isn't one of them.

I have theories and ideas about the murders, but I try not to let myself get tunnel vision and become attached to one single thing. Nobody can agree on the white thing on his neck, his age, what may or may not be in his pocket, etc. The reason we can't agree, IMO, is because the image/video lacks defined lines. Our brains end up filling in the holes and a lot of times we bring our personal biases and history to the interpretation of the image. When the facts are so sketchy, I try to apply logic and reason. You know, like I can't say for certain that he doesn't have a goat stuffed down the front of his shirt, but logic says that he probably doesn't because XYZ.

 

[sunshineray]

if he recorded the crime it would have everything to do with the crime, his motives, and what someone involved in the crime would know about.

What I meant was if there was a mouth camera used by the killer, it would have no bearing on whatever evidence was left at the crime scene area...unless he spit it out and left it lying somewhere.

 

[tresir2012]

They really are. We have a "regular" one and then one we use for business (YouTube videos, marketing, etc.) We actually have fun mounting them in our car during roadtrips. We record a lot of the drive (we record us, not the road) and when the trip's over I edit the whole thing down to about 15 minutes. It's good fun, and I like documenting these times with my kids.

I know this isn't definitive, but I have visited the "dark web" (people who actually go on it don't call it the "dark web", the refer to it as the "sub level") and I have some connections to people who work in cyber crimes. Back about a year ago when people were wondering if he'd filmed the girls' murders so that he could upload them to the sub, I talked to the people I know about it and put out feelers. There's been nothing uncovered down there that relates to the girls'murder (other than a chat board which is actually pretty tame considering). Still nothing. They've singled out some crazy things down there, all kinds of recorded criminal acts, but though Delphi is on alert nothing in the sub has popped up on them. There are certain areas down there that are home to really vile things, but a video of the murders isn't one of them.

I have theories and ideas about the murders, but I try not to let myself get tunnel vision and become attached to one single thing. Nobody can agree on the white thing on his neck, his age, what may or may not be in his pocket, etc. The reason we can't agree, IMO, is because the image/video lacks defined lines. Our brains end up filling in the holes and a lot of times we bring our personal biases and history to the interpretation of the image. When the facts are so sketchy, I try to apply logic and reason. You know, like I can't say for certain that he doesn't have a goat stuffed down the front of his shirt, but logic says that he probably doesn't because XYZ.

Do you have a link to when this (filming for the dark web) was being discussed on here? I don't ever remember that, although I realise I may not have read every single thread, that would ne memorable, IMO.

 

[mtnlites]

You know, from the point where the girls got out of the car there's several places he could've been "hiding" (intentionally or unintentionally). There are trees all around one side of the road and then there's a barn and a couple of outbuildings. He could've been inside of one of them or walking around. If he saw them drive up and get out, he'd have known that they were alone.

 

[tresir2012]

You know, from the point where the girls got out of the car there's several places he could've been "hiding" (intentionally or unintentionally). There are trees all around one side of the road and then there's a barn and a couple of outbuildings. He could've been inside of one of them or walking around. If he saw them drive up and get out, he'd have known that they were alone.

Have you a link showing these barns on a satellite map so we know which ones you are talking about and whose land they are on? TIA.

 

[sunshineray]

That statement about wanting to know what they know could also apply to everyone on these true crime forums, blogs, Facebook groups, Twitter accounts, etc. There's a request or complaint for "more information" on a daily basis. And who knows, he may be someone in one of those groups doing the demanding.

What about ISP Carter's statement about killer could be in the room. That kind of narrows the group down a bit. Or do you think that was for shock value and not to be considered literally?

 

[tresir2012]

What I meant was if there was a mouth camera used by the killer, it would have no bearing on whatever evidence was left at the crime scene area...unless he spit it out and left it lying somewhere.

Does saliva contain DNA?

Collecting and Handling Saliva for DNA Analysis – Salimetrics

 

[Krwiley60]

So if a LE believes a tip to be true, that is all that's needed for probable cause? Even if that tip is anonymous? I'm just tryin to figure out the difference in stating probable cause from a tip for say someone a distance away from a crime scene as opposed to say RL's property that was the crime scene. Is the threshold the same? Just a sworn statement that a tip could be true, in good faith is believed to be true by an officer of the law? TIA

LEO’s have to have factual / reliable evidence to back up the affidavit for a warrant showing probable cause to search. The “anonymous tip” would be thoroughly investigated before any warrant to search. If they had the evidence/facts needed.

 

[mtnlites]

Have you a link showing these barns on a satellite map so we know which ones you are talking about and whose land they are on? TIA.

I'm sure there's one out there on the internet somewhere. I've never looked. I know them from personal experience, not from a link.

 

[mtnlites]

What about ISP Carter's statement about killer could be in the room. That kind of narrows the group down a bit. Or do you think that was for shock value and not to be considered literally?

I have no opinion on that, though I think a lot of the stuff that Carter's said has come from emotions and frustration. I've heard LE use similar wording in the past when talking to the community after a crime: the perp could be watching us right now, the perp could live right here on this street, the perp may be just a few feet away, etc. Never heard one say that they could be right there in the room. I don't know what it means, but I don't think it means that they know who the killer is and that he was in the actual room.

 

[mtnlites]

Do you have a link to when this (filming for the dark web) was being discussed on here? I don't ever remember that, although I realise I may not have read every single thread, that would ne memorable, IMO.

Lord, I don't remember when that was, but there are other people like myself who have been on here from the very beginning and they may remember. It wasn't a huge discussion that went on for days or anything. Someone posted and said they thought there was a tripod attached to his left (our right) side and as the convo progressed it turned into him filming the murders as a snuff film.

 

[TwoLea]

Re the horse halter, I didn't mean he was wearing it but had it shoved down his jacket with some of it sticking up from his jacket.

Are you saying it's white? I've worked with thousands of horses. Halters do not come in white, as a rule.