CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #6

[Nikynoo]

She wouldn't. But how do you suppose she would've been able to be taken? Only by force, I am presuming. So why no scream? Why not run? She seemed to be fit. She knew hubby was near. I was just saying that she would've seen that vehicle coming and it wouldn't have caught her by surprise where she'd have no ability to scream or run. But yet she didn't apparently do that.

No, the above scenario, would have been effective (no scream, an offer to help). Another alternative was it was someone she knew.

I still think she became lost, no abduction, no foul play.

 

[PajamaSleuth]

This is how easily you can get lost in a crevice...

If he was even slightly smaller he would have fallen further and been invisible

Warning, graphic photos

Man plunges into tiny mountain crevice and gets trapped for four days

I am too scared to look at the pictures!! I think I get gist though. Are there crevices in this area? (Sorry if that is a stupid question.)

Would BT have gotten into a crevice for shade? Or be the sort to seek out that adventurous experience? Or feel pressured into putting herself in a dangerous situation, thinking she could rely on help — and then have been left there?

BT has been described as an experienced hiker so this scenario may not apply in her situation ... What if a hiking group goes further than one person can handle? The group lets the person rest while they summon help. The group takes the water because they have to travel back to base. What would a person do?? Depending on how much time elapses until help arrives, a person could perish, right? When found, it would appear as if they were lost and succumbed to the elements?

It seems like there are more and more cases of people disappearing while hiking. I haven’t gone hiking in a long time so I’m trying to get a feel for possible scenarios. I am not making accusations.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Some have said RT saying BT was wearing a bikini and drinking a beer was talking in a deragotory way, even blaming her by describing her in such a way.

IMO, everyone who feels that way, he or she him/herself might (subconsciously) not feel it appropriate to be dressed like that, since why else would you have that thought.

BT used to dress that way, I have seen 4 or 5 pictures of her in a bikini, in different settings, that was her thing, she was a free spirited woman, and she liked to drink a beer in the desert. She enjoyed her life at 69.

I think everyone should accept BT the way she was, and not deflect their own thought of how a 69 yo should be dressed onto claiming RT talking in a bad way about his wife, he did not.

No offense intended, but this is been going on for a month, over and over again.

Why would he say it, because that is how she was dressed, because that is what she was drinking, perfect imo.
Again no offense, I respect everyone's sense of dresscodes, fashions style and even more free spiritedness. IMO

Two potential comments:

"My wife is a glowing beauty. Anyone could have snatched her up."

"My wife was drinking beer in a bikini. There ya go."

That's why we think the way we do.

 

[dbdb11]

Paul Miller went missing under similar circumstances (please don't list all the way these 2 are dissimilar, I know they are NOT the same set of circumstances) over 1 year ago... still missing out there in the desert after hiking...

THREAD 2: CA - CA - Paul Miller, 51, Canadian missing in Joshua Tree Natl Park, San Bernardino Co., 13 Jul 2018 #2

THREAD 3: CA - CA - Paul Miller, 51, Canadian missing in Joshua Tree Natl Park, San Bernardino Co., 13 Jul 2018 #3

I share Paul's thread again just for everyone to keep in mind that many people (there are many, many others) go hiking and don't come back... for myriad of reasons... under myriad of circumstances.

And often, after time - sometimes a very long time - remains are found.

I am hoping that BT is safe somewhere - and Paul Miller also, and Paul Batson, too for that matter (thread here: MT - MT - Paul Batson, 45, Stillwater County, 29 April 2018)... or they could ALL be missing with completely different outcomes and scenarios.

It is a little tiny bit odd that in BT's case, (a woman missing) there rests a shadow of doubt over some of the stories told by those close to her and yet, with the other 2 Pauls, (2 men missing) for the most part, there is very little suspicion, just a desperation to find them.

i appreciate you've brought up how others have vanished under similar circumstances, without any major suspicions.
maybe if not for that beer, that bikini top, and that road she had to cross.

I hope you are successful in gaining confirmation. I suspect though, that only confirmation from LE would suffice.

i apologise to the kind hearted people who are steadfastly hoping for no foul play. lots of people go missing in the mojave. this was likely factored in by Robbie. Why do i suspect Robbie? because i have been looking into him for a month now and not one person who actually knows Robbie has had anything good to say about him. i alone have described him positively, as in what i thought about him prior to Barbs disappearance. At best his relatives have explained he is worried sick, not eating, not sleeping...

it is encouraging ppl on websleuths maintain a positive outlook with respect to 'victim' robert thomas...

praying to God that Barbara is found soon.

 

[distracted]

I can only speak for myself, but I feel it has zero to do with what BT was wearing, as to why it is seen as a red flag when RT mentions it. He was not 'describing' BT when he said this, - in fact I don't believe he did describe her. If describing her, he presumably would have mentioned hair color, height, body type, *boots* and not just the bikini and that she had a beer in hand. The beer part isn't even a description, because anyone on the lookout for her after she was taken, is sure to find her absent the beer. He said it during two separate interviews, which have been transcribed which I am linking below.

In one, he says: "1:12 "I feel that, uh, somebody picked her up, uh, because she was wearing a bikini, she had a beer in her hand, and she was ahead of me and she had to cross that road."

In the other, he says: 1:13 "My feeling is that she was picked up because she had to cross the highway - she *was* wearing a bikini and she had a beer in her hand."

* he places emphasis on the word *was*, as if to say, 'afterall, she WAS wearing a bikini and she had a beer in her hand, so who could've resisted', or something to that effect. It is almost like a justification as to why she was taken and why it makes sense for him to say so. 'Well of COURSE someone snatched her, because there she was, wearing a bikini with beer in hand.' Perfect. I notice that he also has an excuse at hand for why he 'failed' the lie detector test, which he shares with everyone. I also notice his narrative includes letting us know how much they love each other (why would anyone have thought otherwise? Why waste time with that part when he could've been begging for her to be returned unharmed?). He asks for her release with no questions asked, but what if her face and body are all cut up, what then? No questions? No charges? Why not? Why not 'please be on the lookout for her, we've got to get this monster who snatches random women from the roadway.'? He also makes no mention of having searched for her for hours before calling 911, he only says he called out, waved his arms, looked around, and got panicky, so presumably he would've called 911 at *that* point (but apparently he didn't do that until some 3.5 hours later?). I also notice that during both interviews, he says the same things, which to me, makes me think he's rehearsed the parts of his narrative which he feels are most important for him to get out. He also answers with 'absolutely not', instead of simply 'NO' when asked if he had anything to do with his wife's disappearance.

It seems to me that RT himself may be the one who had an issue with what she was wearing, else why make that the main focus of why he believes she was picked up? Even if he had no issue with her attire, it seems high up on his list of WHY he believes she was picked up. He could've just said something like 'she had to cross the highway so I fear that a predator may have easily seen her and taken advantage of the opportunity to snatch a vulnerable older woman all alone with easy access at the side of the highway with nobody around to see.' (Or even just 'a woman', or 'an attractive woman'.)

There are often lots of clues outside of the words spoken, which people can clue into by either reading between the lines, watching body language, listening to tone, watching the eyes, paying attention to which words are chosen, and/or being aware of the feeling one might get when the particular words are spoken, amongst other things. In this case, to me, his words are saying much more about *him* than they are about her.

AZ - AZ - Barbara Thomas, 69, Timeline, Media, Maps, *NO DISCUSSION*

I very much agree with this. Plus, he supplied too much information in expectation of the questions he would be asked.

Your last paragraph describes exactly how I size up someone. The interviews he gave sound very rehearsed to me and, frankly, unbelievable.

 

[Kapua]

Exactly. I’m convinced at this point, if there was a photo taken of Barb that day, we would have seen it.

It’s easier to find a missing person, if you know exactly what they look like, and what they are wearing.

And your comment about the time stamps, reminded me of a case in which a murderer filmed himself fishing, in order to set up an alibi.

It ended up cinching the case against him, as the sunlight revealed to NASA experts that he was not fishing when he said he was.

Good point that he might have taken a picture to establish an alibi.

Also, if he had the bikini picture on his phone and he used the camera to take pictures that day, those pictures might not have been as readily accessible as the one on his phone.

Unless I am missing something, there's unaccounted for time regardless of whether she was there or not, but y'all have given me a new way to look at this. Maybe she was there. Maybe that's why he took the polygraph - because he wasn't lying about that part. But I want corroboration. MOO

Also note that RT has no problem carrying a cell phone and/or camera, but he doesn't want a KEY weighing him down, so he puts it under a rock. Did he expect them to go in 2 different directions? Bizarre, IMHO.

 

[kay74]

What's with these mines? Are they holes in the ground you might step into?? Crevices too? Who the heck would go out there if this all is true?!

 

[distracted]

BBM:

I'm now recalling words you recently said to me:

"Push through. I’m counting on you. We’re all counting on you."

 

[deugirtni]

Good point that he might have taken a picture to establish an alibi.

Also, if he had the bikini picture on his phone and he used the camera to take pictures that day, those pictures might not have been as readily accessible as the one on his phone.

Unless I am missing something, there's unaccounted for time regardless of whether she was there or not, but y'all have given me a new way to look at this. Maybe she was there. Maybe that's why he took the polygraph - because he wasn't lying about that part. But I want corroboration. MOO

Also note that RT has no problem carrying a cell phone and/or camera, but he doesn't want a KEY weighing him down, so he puts it under a rock. Did he expect them to go in 2 different directions? Bizarre, IMHO.

Good point, seems odd doesn't it? He seemed to indicate that he actually had camera gear with him, since he was in the process of packing it up when she started on ahead. So he had camera, maybe tripod, lenses, whatever.. apparently a gallon of water.. cellphone.. while BT has nothing but her can of beer (as per first news reports).. why not just let BT carry the key?

Maybe he knew it would make himself appear guilty if he refused to take a lie detector test, but he was already aware that they are unreliable, and had the excuse already of not having had much sleep.

 

[gsleuth]

Two potential comments:

"My wife is a glowing beauty. Anyone could have snatched her up."

"My wife was drinking beer in a bikini. There ya go."

That's why we think the way we do.

Bolding by me..that's well said and respectful.

 

[deugirtni]

i appreciate you've brought up how others have vanished under similar circumstances, without any major suspicions.
maybe if not for that beer, that bikini top, and that road she had to cross.

i apologise to the kind hearted people who are steadfastly hoping for no foul play. lots of people go missing in the mojave. this was likely factored in by Robbie. Why do i suspect Robbie? because i have been looking into him for a month now and not one person who actually knows Robbie has had anything good to say about him. i alone have described him positively, as in what i thought about him prior to Barbs disappearance. At best his relatives have explained he is worried sick, not eating, not sleeping...

it is encouraging ppl on websleuths maintain a positive outlook with respect to 'victim' robert thomas...

praying to God that Barbara is found soon.

@dbdb11 when I first started reading this thread and noticed you here as a VI family member, I was struck by how you seemed to me at the time, to be keeping an open mind about the possibilities, and how you didn't seem to be blaming RT. As time has gone on, and more info has been sought, your views seem to have changed. It must be terribly difficult to be so far away and not have much contact with investigators. I sincerely hope LE has some kind of news soon.

 

[distracted]

I believe that if there was a photo available of BT while she was on her excursion that day, it would have been provided by LE and published and noted as being a photo taken just prior to her 'disappearance'. When I think about other cases I've followed where there has been a photo taken, it is noted. I believe the photo being published in *this* case is an old one and only being used because BT happens to be wearing the same type/color of clothing as what she is said to have been wearing at time of disappearance. Jmo.

So, that means a narrative that he deemed believable was built around a photograph that he didn't take that day, imo.

<modsnip: info not supported by MSM>

It's my opinion Barbara did not walk into the desert, if she was ever there at all.

 

[Stripehaven]

If there was a crime here, a pre-planned one as has been suggested by some, then RT was free to mention any time he wanted that would make sense in his made up story.
He could preplan: lost sight of het at noon, searched for one hour, called 911 at 1, period. No discrepancies.

But since he lost sight of her around noon, let's say 12.30, went searching, maybe even sat down every now and then since is is 72 yo and it being extremely hot, then went searching once more for an hour, it could have easily be 2.30 by then.

Also please I am going to bold this, we know RT said to LE and family to have searched for her for so long on his own. The "think she was kidnapped because of her attire" was not his first thought, he searched for her, there were daily searches, and only when she was not found he came to the conclusion (or maybe just holds out hope) someone may have taken her. Which is logical.

But is it logical that he would have waited so long to call for help in his search, given the heat, BT’s age, and her lack of water as she wandered and wandered? Or in fact may have been injured and in need of medical assistance?

 

[Kapua]

So theoretically, if BT is 1/4 mile from the road in a remote desert area - where are kidnappers likely to come from? The road, right? And on that road is a nice truck and RV. The kidnappers do not touch it. They just take Barbara and leave. Why?

 

[Blue Ridge]

Also, if he had the bikini picture on his phone and he used the camera to take pictures that day, those pictures might not have been as readily accessible as the one on his phone.

RSBM

That's entirely possible. And excusable for the first day or two. However...a month later, I think they have had plenty of time to get the pictures off that camera. And if any showed Barb that day in that desert immediately before her disappearance....surely they would have published them in later articles showing exactly how she looked in order for people to identify her?

MOO

 

[wary]

So theoretically, if BT is 1/4 mile from the road in a remote desert area - where are kidnappers likely to come from? The road, right? And on that road is a nice truck and RV. The kidnappers do not touch it. They just take Barbara and leave. Why?

Because he/they want the person, not the truck/RV? Think of the cases where someone breaks into a house and abducts or kills someone. In a lot of those cases, things aren’t stolen out of the house.

They don’t have the key, so they could burglarize, but couldn’t steal the vehicles. Not sure it’d be worthwhile breaking a window to get in and steal.....steal what? The food out of the refrigerator?

 

[cazador]

I wonder if LE ever reads Websleuth's forum ??
Some people have excellent thoughts here.
Very Balanced at times with both sides of the coin well studied and thought out.

 

[rosesfromangels]

So theoretically, if BT is 1/4 mile from the road in a remote desert area - where are kidnappers likely to come from? The road, right? And on that road is a nice truck and RV. The kidnappers do not touch it. They just take Barbara and leave. Why?

If this were the case, (and it’s not one of my prevailing theories), it would suggest prearrangement.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Curiousobserver]

I am too scared to look at the pictures!! I think I get gist though. Are there crevices in this area? (Sorry if that is a stupid question.)

Would BT have gotten into a crevice for shade? Or be the sort to seek out that adventurous experience? Or feel pressured into putting herself in a dangerous situation, thinking she could rely on help — and then have been left there?

BT has been described as an experienced hiker so this scenario may not apply in her situation ... What if a hiking group goes further than one person can handle? The group lets the person rest while they summon help. The group takes the water because they have to travel back to base. What would a person do?? Depending on how much time elapses until help arrives, a person could perish, right? When found, it would appear as if they were lost and succumbed to the elements?

It seems like there are more and more cases of people disappearing while hiking. I haven’t gone hiking in a long time so I’m trying to get a feel for possible scenarios. I am not making accusations.

Perhaps someone who as been to this actual spot can be more authoritative but I have been to what I think are similar locations and my quick answer would be that there are crevices like the one in this story.

My point is that many have said its impossible she just vanished so quickly without any evidence and that this lack of any sign of her is evidence she was never there: but its really not.

She gets lost, she back tracks, she climbs up on some rocks to get a better view to find her car and she falls just perfectly into a crevice. No hat, no beer, no nothing. An archaeologist will find her in 1000 yrs.

I would take the dogs up to that spot where she allegedly took the 360 picture. I might go back there if I knew I had a great view from that spot.

 

[slowpoke]

Why does he return to the site she went missing and overturn rocks? What does he think he will find?

I also wondered about the “overturning rocks”. If she were trapped, it would likely be between huge “boulders”, and I’m not able to imagine how he would be able to turn those over.

This is how easily you can get lost in a crevice...
If he was even slightly smaller he would have fallen further and been invisible
Warning, graphic photos
Man plunges into tiny mountain crevice and gets trapped for four days

Scary! That poor man. Here’s one that happened last Nov in the Phoenix, AZ area, with a good outcome:
Phoenix firefighters rescue man trapped between 2 boulders on South Mountain