OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #51

[Rutledge203]

How long (how much time) would it take to show a more advanced state of decomposition? I didn't think they could narrow it down that much.

He was the last autopsy done for one.
And as I can remember had the greatest number of gun shot wounds and injuries. This will increase decomposition somewhat. Also who was removed from the murder scene to the refrigerated truck in what order. My 2 cents

 

[Rutledge203]

Rhoden family massacre: Autopsy reports indicate one victim was awake when fatally shot





His wound in his right forearm was considered a defensive wound. Also, at least one bullet went through a door before hitting him. We don't know for certain, but everyone here has speculated on a few different scenarios - mostly that he saw or heard them outside and ran to the back bedroom to retrieve a weapon, etc. and was shot through that door. He could have also been asleep in the bedroom and awakened when they made a noise.

IIRC from what BJM said, CR1 and GR were both laying on the floor, with GR laying across CR1's legs. So it sounds like CR was out of his bed and standing when he was killed. GR, according to BJM's remarks, had been dragged to the back bedroom from the front part of the trailer.

JMO, BJM's description of "blood all over the house" could mean that CR1 was shot near the front door, then ran to the back bedroom. IDK, we'll find out.

I also believe Chris Jr was awake and trying his best to hide between his bed and the wall. So awfull and heartbreaking alone.

 

[Rutledge203]

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[Rutledge203]

D

 

[OhioBlues]

He was the last autopsy done for one.
And as I can remember had the greatest number of gun shot wounds and injuries. This will increase decomposition somewhat. Also who was removed from the murder scene to the refrigerated truck in what order. My 2 cents

I believe the police said Chris saw them coming. If they were able to beat him up (then that could account for the blood) plus 9 gun shots. If he was moved, then IDK...IDK anyway.

How loud would that gun be that shot GR tho? It seems like larger caliber guns would be much louder.

It's all confusing and just too sad.

 

[Cool Cats]

Thanks, that's interesting, esp about the silencers. There are some members who post here who do understand guns and silencers better than I. Maybe they will come by.

The mention of moving of bodies in an indictment sounds familiar, but I'm not sure. Will have to check those tomorrow.

As for stippling, I recall we had some discussion here about whether wood fragments/debris from the door could have been in the stippling.

Some also speculated about CR1 being in the bedroom behind the door because
1. He was in the bedroom getting something the killer/s had requested. Maybe retrieving MJ or money from a hidden place

2. He ran into the bedroom to retrieve his gun.

BBM

Moving the bodies is mentioned in Jake's Bill of Particulars:
Count 9 = Conspiracy

.....It's mentioned at the end of Count 9.....

Count 9 (first half)
https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/20b6zw25c06qn5xt/images/16

Count 9 (second half)
https://html2-f.scribdassets.com/20b6zw25c06qn5xt/images/17

EDIT
I just checked and "moving the bodies" is also mentioned in the original Murder Indictments against the 4 Wagners, Count 9.

 

[Fletcher73]

Do y'all think that DR was seen as the biggest problem in the custody battle...
or that her particular shooter was just extra-monstrous? If the first then easy to deduct who shot her IMO.

IMO the extra violence against HHG was because she encouraged the relationship between her brother and HMR. IMO the extra violence on DR was because the killer was enraged she was happy that HMR was happy with her new man. No idea why CRsr took so many shots unless the rumor of a big fight a couple weeks prior with BW was true, JMO.

Of course, all that could be true, *and* the shooter was also extra-monstrous, ") - MOO.

 

[Fletcher73]

Just pondering. I never suspected it to be walking distance. Escapes are hardly ever on foot, IMO. Perhaps a faked medical emergency (stoke) and meeting up of resources. JMO of course

Oh, the "fire orange" and "stroke" writings on the pants, like a code, you think? Pointing to an escape plan? Interesting ponder there, Loomis.

 

[Fletcher73]

That’s exactly how I researched it also, but I found that Gary father said that Gary was the one that was dragged to the back bedroom not Chris, He as killed in the bedroom, I wonder why Chris was covered up?

Speculation was CRsr's face was covered up which showed an emotional relationship between the killer and the victim.

JMO, that BW and JW both shot CRsr (two types of bullets listd in AR). If BW covered him, that speaks to the Wagner family claim that BW & CR "were best friends." If JW covered him, it seemed to me that he still felt strongly about CRsr, as thought of him as father-in-law, or at least wanted him to be his in-law. MOO

 

[Antimony]

Could the "covering" of Big Chris' have happened as the killers searched the room?
Like throwing stuff around looking for something?

 

[Antimony]

I completely missed the mention of a slingshot in this case.

 

[Justus Forall]

What do you think they used the sling shot for???

IMO the slingshot was used to get CRs to come to the window or door where he was then shot.

 

[Cool Cats]

I completely missed the mention of a slingshot in this case.

Slingshot Evidence listed in Frederick Wagner's Discovery Not in the Wagner 4's Discoveries
Click on 'Pages' in upper left hand corner then click on page 41 or scroll down.

Motion to Dismiss Fredericka Wagner Charges

Audra Levy WXIX/Fox19
√ VERIFIED
Cincinnati
Digital Executive Producer — WRTV-TV (Indianapolis, IN)
U.S.

 

[IType]

Slingshot Evidence listed in Frederick Wagner's Discovery
Click on 'Pages' in upper left hand corner then click on page 41 or scroll down.

Motion to Dismiss Fredericka Wagner Charges

The slingshot is listed on page 41.

But, has there ever been specific mention in MSM or in the court documents indicating that a slingshot was actually used in the commission of the murders? I only recall seeing the slingshot discussed here on WS because it was listed on the receipt in the above link. Is it just a supposition by some posters that there was a slingshot used?

Since a black leather jacket and a motorcycle helmet were also shown to be purchased on the same day as the slingshot and two bullet-proof vests, IMO the slingshot was simply a random purchase and has nothing to do with the murders. With the slingshot date of purchase listed as 5/7/16--after the murders were committed--that is an indication to me that the slingshot couldn't have been used in the murders. IMO

 

[Cool Cats]

The slingshot is listed on page 41.

But, has there ever been specific mention in MSM or in the court documents indicating that a slingshot was actually used in the commission of the murders? I only recall seeing the slingshot discussed here on WS because it was listed on the receipt in the above link. Is it just a supposition by some posters that there was a slingshot used?

Since a black leather jacket and a motorcycle helmet were also shown to be purchased on the same day as the slingshot and two bullet-proof vests, IMO the slingshot was simply a random purchase and has nothing to do with the murders. With the slingshot date of purchase listed as 5/7/16--after the murders were committed--that is an indication to me that the slingshot couldn't have been used in the murders. IMO

I agree with you 100%.
It's important to know where the slingshot reference comes from so we can discount it.

The gun, a 1911.22 listed in Jake Wagner's Supplemental Discovery -- along with evidence from the Well search -- is what is important. (Likely to be listed in the Discoveries of the other 3 as well.)

Thanks for noticing the date of purchase! 5/7/16

 

[IType]

Glad to help

 

[dgfred]

He was the last autopsy done for one.
And as I can remember had the greatest number of gun shot wounds and injuries. This will increase decomposition somewhat. Also who was removed from the murder scene to the refrigerated truck in what order. My 2 cents

Yeah, but LE would know all that and would not need to mention he was likely killed first because of it. See what I am saying?

 

[dgfred]

IMO the slingshot was used to get CRs to come to the window or door where he was then shot.

But as mentioned before... the bullet holes would likely be noticed on the door or window that morning so probably the first shot wasn't thru the front door/window.

 

[dgfred]

Is there a page that is easy to find with the 'discoveries' listed?

 

[Dudly]

How long (how much time) would it take to show a more advanced state of decomposition? I didn't think they could narrow it down that much.

That state of decomposition can be affected by numerous things. Medical conditions like diabetes, room/body temperature, humidity, weight, blood loss before death,etc.. Without a link I will state this as my opinion only...