GUILTY UK - Joe McCann, multiple victims kidnapped & assaulted, April / May 2019

[Legally Bland]

33 life sentences equating to 30 years? Wtf is even the point?

I hope he dies horribly in jail, and the sooner the better. That is all.

Less than a year for each life sentence

 

[Joolz1975]

I understand why no whole life tariff but I still would have liked to have seen it as I dont think he should ever be released.

Hopefully when he has served his minimum term they will still class him as a danger and he wont get out.

Thanks LB for the updates.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Less than a year for each life sentence

Yup. I just read this though
The world's longest prison sentences

 

[Alyce]

Snipped from Legally's post above


Whole life sentence not to be imposed
The judge has commented on news that the prosecution would ask for a whole life tariff.

"While theoretically possible to issue a whole life tariff for cases that do not involve murder, it is in practice not applied to any case not involving murder."

He added that a life sentence was not being requested and would not be applied.




Perhaps practice needs to change then - this is an insult to his victims who have to carry their sentence for the rest of their lives.
He will be 64 when he is eligible for parole - I doubt he will last that long, but even so, he should have been given a whole of life sentence, just to remove any thought in his head that he might one day be free and to give his victims peace of mind.

 

[Scorpiette]

They could at least have made the sentences non-concurrent, ensuring there would be no more 'mistakes' in releasing him early.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Snipped from Legally's post above


Whole life sentence not to be imposed
The judge has commented on news that the prosecution would ask for a whole life tariff.

"While theoretically possible to issue a whole life tariff for cases that do not involve murder, it is in practice not applied to any case not involving murder."

He added that a life sentence was not being requested and would not be applied.




Perhaps practice needs to change then - this is an insult to his victims who have to carry their sentence for the rest of their lives.
He will be 64 when he is eligible for parole - I doubt he will last that long, but even so, he should have been given a whole of life sentence, just to remove any thought in his head that he might one day be free and to give his victims peace of mind.

I agree, Alyce. If ever there was an example that should have got a WLO for non-murder, it is McCann. They should have laid down a precedent here. Still, it's probably academic as, like you, I doubt he'll last that long.

 

[Legally Bland]

Piece on McCann when he was young:

Baby-faced Asbo **** to serial rapist - how Joseph McCann terrorised Manchester

Info on his ASBO, aged 14, from that link:
______________

The family, who are one generation removed from travellers, were divided by the ASBOs. Forced to move away from the area, the boys were unable to maintain contact with those relatives who still lived in Beswick.

But Superintendent Dave Thompson, of Grey Mare Lane police station in the heart of the estate, disagreed with Crossley in 2002. He said since the orders were introduced, crime had dropped by a third and burglaries by half.

Takings at the local supermarket increased by £14,000 a week after the ASBO. He said there had been a perception that the McCanns were "untouchable".

In the McCanns' case, there was no attempt at mediation and no attempt to solve their problems prior to the use of the ASBO.

They attempted to persuade the European courts, in 2002, to overturn the order banning them from returning to Beswick.

Since the original ASBO, the boys appealed to the Crown Court, the Divisional Court, the Court of appeal and the House of Lords. They were unsuccessful in their bids.

[...]

Born in February 1985, the son of a Scottish builder and a mum who had links to travelling communities, Joseph McCann had a fierce temper and struggled to contain his anger.

His first conviction was when he was just 13 and was for theft.

After being banned from Beswick, the family moved south to Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire, and Middlesex.

McCann went off the rails in April 2019 when his younger brother, Michael, 32, was jailed for stealing handbags from pensioners and vulnerable women.

His older brother, Sean, died three years ago in Peterborough Prison, after taking his own life, while serving two years for assault.

After his ASBO at 14, Joseph McCann was jailed nine years later for bursting into the home of an 85-year-old man in Bedford in 2008 and threatening him with a knife.

He was convicted of aggravated burglary.

In August 2017, he was arrested for burglary and theft and given a three-and-a-half year prison sentence. The halfway point of this sentence was reached in February 2019, when he was automatically released.

However, he should have been returned to prison under the terms of his licence for the 2008 conviction, the Ministry of Justice later admitted, following an internal inquiry.

 

[Scorpiette]

JM said he's 'killed someone'. I guess he'll not confess to Police..if this claim is true.
If statement is true, I wonder if Police have any theories as to who he killed, and whether evidence will be virtually impossible to gather as time passed.

 

[Legally Bland]

Full sentencing remarks attached. Source:
R -v- Joseph McCann Sentencing Remarks

 

[dotr]

rbbm.
What would make JM think he would be any help at all raising his children, who would want him to?
Hopefully he will not have the opportunity to ever breed again, imo.
"In late 1999, McCann and his brothers Sean, then 16, and younger brother Michael, became some of the first teens to be handed an Anti Social Behaviour Order (ASBO). The brothers tormented anyone in their path stealing from local shops on the now demolished Beswick estate in Manchester. One neighbour told MailOnline: ‘They were a horrible family, absolutely vile – scum of the earth.’"

"After their home was bulldozed, they moved to Aylesbury in Buckinghamshire, and Wealdstone in Middlesex, where they made contact with their mum’s traveller relatives. One neighbour said they ‘arrived overnight and brought havoc’ and said people in the area quickly got to know about the family."
"McCann later insisted he wanted to ‘live a crime free life’ to look after his partner and two children."

Read more: How Joseph McCann went from ASBO kid to Britain's worst rapist | Metro News

 

[Hjp]

I understand why no whole life tariff but I still would have liked to have seen it as I dont think he should ever be released.

Hopefully when he has served his minimum term they will still class him as a danger and he wont get out.

Thanks LB for the updates.

I agree,

At 64, if he is allowed out on parole, I feel he will still be capable of committing another atrocity on a young female. In my opinion, the sentence needs to run well into his 70's or 80's of age when frailty will takeover and render him no longer a danger, or he dies in prison beforehand.

The problem is a lot of these psychopaths are very patient, they exhibit good behaviour in prison, they nurture and kindle their evil desires for long periods of time:- only to revert back to what they were doing before as soon as they get out.

The man is synonymous with crime, and his offences are increasing with severity each time he is released and as he ages. In my opinion he is completely unfixable and should go to Belmarsh with all the rest of the country's category A and B prisoners to rot.

 

[Kasmeer]

Well 30 years is a decent length but I'd rather have seen whole life; I don't think he'll ever not be a danger to people so long as he's alive. Glad to see it as high as 30, yet, I don't get why it needs to be concurrent; surely it diminishes the suffering of victims if multiple victims results in a barely longer sentence? I've always felt that sentencing should be consecutive where multiple victims exist.

Although in general I just feel our sentences are too low, which is why I'm actually reasonably happy with 30, as, for a British sentence, that is about as good as it'd get... but as a whole our sentencing needs to be looked at, people live longer now so measly 13-15 year murder sentences are an insult to victims who could've lived 60+ years longer, while barely 1/5 of the criminal's lifespan is taken... at least this'll see him in for a good while, but 64 nowadays is still plenty young enough to still be a danger. Hopefully the parole board aren't taken in by him when it gets that far and don't let him out.

 

[Scorpiette]

Why was the family childhood house bulldozed?!

 

[Elainera]

I'm upset about the sentence. I don't think 30 years is long enough. He should have been locked away for good.

Plus this

In August 2017, he was arrested for burglary and theft and given a three-and-a-half year prison sentence. The halfway point of this sentence was reached in February 2019, when he was automatically released.

bbm

Does that mean the 30 year sentence could also be halved?? I don't understand why sentences are halved. I mean what is the point then, giving a sentence of xx years when they get out after half the time served anyway?

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Why was the family childhood house bulldozed?!

Sounds like the whole estate was demolished, probably just old/inadequate housing.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Does that mean the 30 year sentence could also be halved?? I don't understand why sentences are halved. I mean what is the point then, giving a sentence of xx years when they get out after half the time served anyway?

No, the 30 years has been set as an minimum this time so release isn't an option until at least 2049, and even then I doubt he'll ever get out given the severity of his sentence. I'd put money on him being dead by then anyway.

 

[Amonet]

JM said he's 'killed someone'. I guess he'll not confess to Police..if this claim is true.
If statement is true, I wonder if Police have any theories as to who he killed, and whether evidence will be virtually impossible to gather as time passed.

Was that in one of the articles?

 

[Amonet]

No, the 30 years has been set as an minimum this time so release isn't an option until at least 2049, and even then I doubt he'll ever get out given the severity of his sentence. I'd put money on him being dead by then anyway.

I think he'd have to be very physically frail, and probably at least 80 before they'd consider parole for him. Even though there are people like him who I don't think should ever be released, I can see the point that prisons aren't old folks homes, and can see the value in releasing those who are completely physically impaired/dementia to support homes when they're in their 70s or 80s.

 

[Legally Bland]

Was that in one of the articles?

Yes. No idea if it's true or he was just saying it as a threat. I find it believable.

"He said he wanted a lift. He said, 'I don't want to hurt you. I have got a knife. I have killed somebody'."

Woman, 71, 'punched in the face before being raped in car'

 

[Elainera]

No, the 30 years has been set as an minimum this time so release isn't an option until at least 2049, and even then I doubt he'll ever get out given the severity of his sentence. I'd put money on him being dead by then anyway.

Oh ok. That's better then.

What makes you so sure that he'll die before the age of 64?