SC - Paul Murdaugh, 22 and mom Margaret, 52, found shot to death, Islandton, 7 June 2021

[Eoj163]

Son from powerful family 'was target of shooting at family's hunting lodge that also killed his mom' | Daily Mail Online

Some new info…Dad was out hunting and returned to find the bodies. Supposedly, Paul was the target, Mom collateral.

<modsnip>

Are you sure? I was under the impression he was with his father in the hospital.

 

[Eoj163]

Son from powerful family 'was target of shooting at family's hunting lodge that also killed his mom' | Daily Mail Online

Some new info…Dad was out hunting and returned to find the bodies. Supposedly, Paul was the target, Mom collateral.

<modsnip>

Are you sure? I was under the impression he was with his father in the hospital.

Just bouncing around ideas here...

Regarding hunting time, is hunting with buddies similar to golfing with buddies, where you finish and then go out for a bite and a few cold ones? What is the optimal time of day to hunt quail? (I see lots of references to quail hunting in that area.)

Regarding a possible hunting accident, I find that unlikely since two separate weapons were used on two different victims.

Yes it is common to go do that like golfing. I also agree it is definatley not a hunting accident. Quail hunting would not be done at 10pm. It would be virtually impossible to see the quail in the air. If it was deer season I could maybe see him out until 9 since the sun doesnt set until late but it isnt deer season.

 

[Eoj163]

ahh interesting, thanks - so neither weapon was out of place for the location then

Both are hunting weapons! Obviously all weapons can be used for many things but that is what they are typically used for. A shotgun for duck, quail, or skeet shooting. Rifles are more fun for target practice because they are more accurate, or to be used on deer or a hog. Both would not be out of place at all but I do wonder about the two weapons, as well as where they were usually stored. If they were in a safe, then who had access to the safe?

 

[clearskies1]

Maybe I'm being obtuse, but had the lawsuit gone to mediation or a settlement broached? I ask because liability, both civil and criminal, seems fairly clear cut, at least to me.

I posted this a few pages earlier: Mediation in the civil case broke down/failed in October 2020. https://www.islandpacket.com/news/local/crime/article246446960.html

 

[Bridger]

Both are hunting weapons! Obviously all weapons can be used for many things but that is what they are typically used for. A shotgun for duck, quail, or skeet shooting. Rifles are more fun for target practice because they are more accurate, or to be used on deer or a hog. Both would not be out of place at all but I do wonder about the two weapons, as well as where they were usually stored. If they were in a safe, then who had access to the safe?

Just to be clear, the Daily Mail article does not say the firearms recovered from the scene were the murder weapons. It’s conceivable that they are the weapons grabbed by the Murdaughs to defend themselves. It’s also conceivable that the Daily Mail has that detail wrong. Would not be the first time.

 

[clearskies1]

FYI -- there is a federal lawsuit by an insurance company (Philadelphia Indemnity) against the two Murdaughs (Paul's father and brother) who are being sued for the boating accident. The insurance company claims that it has no duty to defend, or indemnify the two Murduaghs in the Beach lawsuit. New lawsuit filed in relation to deadly Lowcountry boating crash

 

[Dawookie]

From the Daily Mail article referenced a few posts up:

“Their bodies were found several yards apart from one another, shell casings were discovered at the scene and two firearms were recovered.”

This is the first I’ve read that firearms and shell casings were recovered. If true, that’s another really strange detail. Did outsiders really leave their weapons at the scene? Or could it be that everyone was armed and mom and Paul were not as quick on the trigger as the bad guys? (I.e., the firearms recovered at the scene belonged to the Murdaughs and were not the murder weapons.) Alternatively, I suppose that detail makes it conceivable that they shot each other. But surely if that’s the case the investigation would be over. A week should be enough time to make that determination.

And, of course, this is the Daily Mail so we can’t be sure the story is even accurat

Do different guns leave different residue? I’ve been wondering for several days now.

That's a really good question. Reading up on it, a clear answer can't be found. Pistol and rifle powders are different because of the burn rate needed to propel the bullet. Shotgun powder is closer to pistol and they can be used between the two types when reloading. Not sure if there's testing that is done on GSR that can differentiate between the different types of powders

 

[Dawookie]

Are you sure? I was under the impression he was with his father in the hospital.

Yes it is common to go do that like golfing. I also agree it is definatley not a hunting accident. Quail hunting would not be done at 10pm. It would be virtually impossible to see the quail in the air. If it was deer season I could maybe see him out until 9 since the sun doesnt set until late but it isnt deer season.

Its possible he could have been hunting wild boar. They can be hunted at night under certain rules

 

[LaborDayRN]

Are you sure? I was under the impression he was with his father in the hospital.

I haven't heard anything about him being at the hospital with his father. Do you happen to have a link?

 

[Tiff23fr]

Are you sure? I was under the impression he was with his father in the hospital.

This came up a few pages back and there has been no MSM link posted to support it.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Taken out of context, as it is in this article, that quote really could be taken to strongly imply suicide but it might just mean that he chose to be at the hunting lodge that with his family instead of with friends or wherever else he might have been.

The statement that he was shot "multiple times with a shotgun" also suggests it wasn't suicide. Even if someone gave their self both barrels, I don't think that would necessarily be immediately obvious the way it seems this was. We also have law enforcement rumors being reported that it's a "double homicide" and "is possible Paul was targeted and Maggie was there by happenstance".

One possibility that strikes me is that this might actually be a murder/suicide but law enforcement is intentionally planting contrary rumors as a favor to AM. We see cases here all the time that reach a certain point where the families and official sources suddenly go completely silent. It isn't a stretch to imagine that a family will connected to the officials might be able to get a false narrative unofficially leaked as "rumors"

I also went *huh* as to shot multiple times with a shotgun. How can they know so quickly multiple shots with such as is a spray for each. Unless VERY different areas?

 

[Valiant]

I also went *huh* as to shot multiple times with a shotgun. How can they know so quickly multiple shots with such as is a spray for each. Unless VERY different areas?

The spray makes a pattern, so it's relatively easy to tell if it's one shot or two unless they were to the exact same place.

 

[MoeInVA]

Just googled and found some breaking news on this. Posted today at 11:45 AM. BBM

"Both Paul Murdaugh and his mother Maggie were shot multiple times June 7 before they died, Colleton County Coroner Richard Harvey told The Island Packet on Monday.

...
Harvey confirmed that the time of death for both Murdaughs was between 9 and 9:30 p.m. and that they both suffered multiple gunshot wounds."

Read more here: https://www.newsobserver.com/news/state/south-carolina/article252102993.html#storylink=cpy

 

[dixiegirl1035]

The spray makes a pattern, so it's relatively easy to tell if it's one shot or two unless they were to the exact same place.

Exactly my point!

 

[evilwise]

Just googled and found some breaking news on this. Posted today at 11:45 AM. BBM

"Both Paul Murdaugh and his mother Maggie were shot multiple times June 7 before they died, Colleton County Coroner Richard Harvey told The Island Packet on Monday.

...
Harvey confirmed that the time of death for both Murdaughs was between 9 and 9:30 p.m. and that they both suffered multiple gunshot wounds."

Read more here: https://www.newsobserver.com/news/state/south-carolina/article252102993.html#storylink=cpy

Again with the weird phrasing. It could be as simple and straightforward as that they were shot and soon thereafter died of their injuries and that their bodies were not shot up after the fact or anything. Coroners can tell the difference between a post-mortem injury and that simple clarification may be what he's making.

Or he might be saying that they were shot up, perhaps to be tortured, before being executed by an obviously intentional kill shot. The former seems perfectly plausible with an assault rifle. People shot by rifles often run a few steps before collapsing and dying. Shotguns, however typically kill quite instantly and dramatically.

The phrasing again has the implication that this was not a murder suicide without stepping over the line to explicitly using a phrase like "shot and later died". It might not technically be a lie to say that even someone who suffered a self inflicted catastrophic head injury "died after being shot".

There are definitely facts being danced around here.

The spray makes a pattern, so it's relatively easy to tell if it's one shot or two unless they were to the exact same place.

Exactly my point!

Well, theoretically if there's a double barrel shotgun laying there on the floor with two spent cartridges in it, one might assume that a victim was shot twice even if the injury was inconclusive.

 

[MimosaMornings]

“Legal hunting time for deer is the time between one hour before official sunrise until one hour after official sunset (50-11-710).”

Deer Rules & Regulations | eRegulations

• “On registered properties, feral hogs, coyotes, or armadillos may be hunted at night with artificial lights and nightvision devices using any legal firearm, bow, or crossbow.”

SCDNR - Night Hunting

 

[Knox]

FYI -- there is a federal lawsuit by an insurance company (Philadelphia Indemnity) against the two Murdaughs (Paul's father and brother) who are being sued for the boating accident. The insurance company claims that it has no duty to defend, or indemnify the two Murduaghs in the Beach lawsuit. New lawsuit filed in relation to deadly Lowcountry boating crash

Wow, thanks for posting. That clears up many of my questions on the civil suit, sounds like the GL & Umbrella Policies were purchased for Moselle. Kinda cheeky to file a claim when there is a watercraft exclusion specifically stated in the policy

 

[Peachykeen]

Wow, thanks for posting. That clears up many of my questions on the civil suit, sounds like the GL & Umbrella Policies were purchased for Moselle. Kinda cheeky to file a claim when there is a watercraft exclusion specifically stated in the policy

The boating accident would have fallen under a different policy. It was at a different home they owned

 

[Warwick7]

Just googled and found some breaking news on this. Posted today at 11:45 AM. BBM

"Both Paul Murdaugh and his mother Maggie were shot multiple times June 7 before they died, Colleton County Coroner Richard Harvey told The Island Packet on Monday.

...
Harvey confirmed that the time of death for both Murdaughs was between 9 and 9:30 p.m. and that they both suffered multiple gunshot wounds."

Read more here: https://www.newsobserver.com/news/state/south-carolina/article252102993.html#storylink=cpy

Ok, now this is interesting. When I read he was shot twice, all it said about her was "shot with an assault rifle."
Not where she was shot or how many times.
At the time I thought that was odd to skip over that.
So she also was shot more than once.
Good find!!

 

[clearskies1]

The boating accident would have fallen under a different policy. It was at a different home they owned

Not sure what you mean by "would have". Are you saying that an insurer is covering it? Also, it does appear that the father filed a claim under the policies at issue in Philadelphia Indemnity's lawsuit -- if he hadn't there would be no reason for the insurance company to file suit. JMO.