Allison Baden-Clay, GENERAL CASE DISCUSSION THREAD -#31

[marlywings]

What has been posted above from the Qld Govt Courts and Tribunals, does not conflict with what I said in my post.
The defendant can attend via video conference, not necessarily in person.
In point 4 above, the defence lawyer or the defendant can answer that the plea is reserved. That means that no plea is entered at this time, but held until another time.

Posting a bit more from the same website:-

Indictable offences
If the defendant pleads guilty to a minor indictable offence, the magistrate can decide the penalty at the first mention or will set a date for a sentence hearing.

For other indictable offences the magistrate will set a committal hearing to determine if there is enough evidence to send the defendant to trial in either the Supreme Court or District Court.

Further mentions
A magistrate may set other ‘mentions’ before a summary hearing to confirm each side has sufficient evidence, organised witnesses and the defendant has finalised their plea.

Hope this clarifies.

Thanks KG....just had a look at all the dates in Sica's case although can't find the first "mention" dates.

2008

December 30 2008 - Sica arrested and charged with three counts of murder (2003)

2009

January - Sica applies for and is refused bail.

August - Sica's committal hearing begins. It will run for 94 days over the course of the next 18 months.

December - Sica makes a second bid for bail, which is refused despite his father offering a $900,000 surety. He later loses an appeal against this bail refusal.

2010

December - Sica is committed to stand trial for murder

2011

August - Sica loses a bid for a judge-only trial. He argued a fair trial by jury would be impossible because of the intense media coverage.

2012

January 31 - Sica pleads not guilty to three counts of murder on the first day of his Supreme Court trial

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...se-unfolded-20120703-21f4b.html#ixzz201MvO0bA

 

[jools]

BBM:

Hey Jools, do you remember what type of vehicle is was and what do you mean by commotion? A brawl, someone collapsed?

Hi, of course at the time I just felt relieved that it was on the other side of the road, and since I realised it was 'that day" (earlier today) I have been trying to remember details. I think it was a light, possibly white-coloured 'transit-type' van. The commotion was a number of people- male- and doors open, or possibly opening and closing; there appeared to be some form of aggravation, like possibly shouting, and I recall a lot of movement. But I had music playing and didn't hear it. I also in retrospect think it might have either been next to the bus stop or just past it, going off the roundabout on Moggill Road towards Brisbane, and got the impression there might have been a partial obstruction to traffic flow. This was to my right as I drove past, and mostly in my peripheral vision, as I was looking straight ahead, and if anything looking left as I approached the roundabout, preparing to drive onto it, and then to take the first exit.
As at the time I had no idea it might be significant I didn't try to remember anything, but definitely recall the location, though not with precision, the type of vehicle, a number of males, and commotion/ aggravation.
I have told the police a little earlier. Don't want to waste their time, but hope it may help them in some way.

 

[Mothergoose]

* Not intending to be rude, and I understand some people not interested in reading through pages of personal input, but there is something powerful about what is happening in this group. If it helps just one person gain their respect and strength to walk away from someone who might be hurting them, it is worth spending time here. MOO. May I suggest any posts with personal anecdotes may be marked with an * so those who don't care to read can skip over them? Dunno...

Jools, what exactly do yo mean by "self imposed silence?"

I agree. When relating to someone elses plight I at times reflect on my own life experiences in empathizing with the poster. If it offends anyone I apologise. On a forum like this it is difficult ignore personal comments relating to another posters tragedies, loss or pain in their lives when answering a question that may be posed by them.Perhaps you should run the asterisk idea past the moderators or administrator.

 

[Mani]

Mani,I have posted over a thousand just on my own...so its safe to say you have trawled through THOUSANDS of comments from many many respected members. Dunnozo just made a wonderful suggestion a fewposts back, specifically to satisfy the members who dont want to participate in any kind of sharing or warmth between members!!!!

Yes and what people don't realise is what is behind some of those apparently unacceptable posts - they have no idea - think of the Bumps Min!!!

 

[Mani]

* Not intending to be rude, and I understand some people not interested in reading through pages of personal input, but there is something powerful about what is happening in this group. If it helps just one person gain their respect and strength to walk away from someone who might be hurting them, it is worth spending time here. MOO. May I suggest any posts with personal anecdotes may be marked with an * so those who don't care to read can skip over them? Dunno...

Good on you Dunno

I went to the bridge with some fantastic women today and took photos which I will upload tonight.

I hope it generates some discussion on here about the case.

 

[KG1]

Thanks KG....just had a look at all the dates in Sica's case although can't find the first "mention" dates.

2008

December 30 2008 - Sica arrested and charged with three counts of murder (2003)

2009

January - Sica applies for and is refused bail.

August - Sica's committal hearing begins. It will run for 94 days over the course of the next 18 months.

December - Sica makes a second bid for bail, which is refused despite his father offering a $900,000 surety. He later loses an appeal against this bail refusal.

2010

December - Sica is committed to stand trial for murder

2011

August - Sica loses a bid for a judge-only trial. He argued a fair trial by jury would be impossible because of the intense media coverage.

2012

January 31 - Sica pleads not guilty to three counts of murder on the first day of his Supreme Court trial

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...se-unfolded-20120703-21f4b.html#ixzz201MvO0bA

Hi Marlywings,

In the above case, there would have been a number of 'mention' dates between January 2009 and August 2009. A 'mention' date is more of a court administrative matter, so that the prosecution and defense can inform the magistrate of their readiness or otherwise to proceed to committal hearing. In other words the court keeps an eye on the matter to ensure that it is going through the proper processes and that undue delays do not occur.

 

[DrWatson]

My dear Watson, It is quite possible that she was killed outside the house, in the yard. In that case any small blood loss may remain unseen or unfound. I always remember the adjoining neighbour's dog going crazy at the fence around 10.00pm

Yes - very good point about the yard/garden being considered part of the house.

 

[minni]

Good on you Dunno

I went to the bridge with some fantastic women today and took photos which I will upload tonight.

I hope it generates some discussion on here about the case.

:what:
What? I went to the bridge with some fantastic women today too!!!!
:what:

 

[Dodo]

Hello, hello people. While I agree that we can get off the topic every now and again, I also think that some personal stories can add to the discussion. eg if someone says that ABC should have left GBC, it is helpful to hear a personal account of why this is not always possible or easy. Personal accounts often balance an 'argument'. The life experiences of some people on this thread have indeed assisted my understanding of human behaviour in relation to the BC family. I also think the 'Sunflowers for Allison' thing is an indication of how we have all come together since 19 April.

Sharing links, sharing knowledge, sharing experiences and learning so very much!

Hear, hear!! These posts have been tremendously helpful to me personally and I would hate for this site to become purely 'clinical'. If all the posts were strictly 'on topic' all the time, I think it would lose it's personal touch and not be the therapy that it has been for people who are genuinely outraged at what has happened to a beautiful, devoted mother. For some reason, society does seem to have become disjointed and terrible crimes are happening because people aren't looking out for each other or caring enough. This forum has been a real balm amidst the cold hearted callousness of this dreadful act, an outlet to express our dismay at such an injustice against such an obviously good woman who didn't deserve to be treated this way. I know it is called
'websleuths' and most of the time good, helpful information is discussed but besides intellect and problem solving abilities, human beings have empathy, a need to connect emotionally and whether or not you believe it, spirituality.
To be well rounded individuals, you need all of these qualities, which I think on or off topic most of the people on here exhibit in spades!



Oh dear, got a bit carried away (haven't even had me rum yet!!!!):floorlaugh:

 

[Woombite]

This is what I was thinking last night. They are arguing, go out in the car so as to not disturb the sleeping girls (they won't be far away and won't take long). They drive down Rafting Ground Rd to where the screams are later heard. They talk in the car and he may might say "Let's get in the back and make up" where he allegedly kills her. He's apparently been planning this for a while and uses a method which he thinks won't leave any blood in the car because there will be no open wounds or anything to cause bleeding, but during the trip to Kholo Creek blood exudes from her mouth and nose which he wasn't expecting. MOO

If he is indeed guilty, I hope that her death was an impulsive opportunistic act by GBC - as mentioned by me earlier about C21 office - as well as the above theory. I would like to think that the girls being home that night 'should' have been a protective factor when it came to Allison and GBC having altercations.
Perhaps this is where a 3rd party became involved, -GBC and Allison off somewhere else (having dinner etc etc) with the children being watched by a family member. Family member not aware of the situation - possibly even when GBC returned alone to the home - or with Allison's body in the boot (sorry) (eg - told family member - she stormed off etc etc) UNTIL the facetime call later that night??? when it all became a little too hard not to seek help and involve others.

BTW, dont expect any more tidbits tomorrow. Mentions are all very boring and are easy to miss in the scheme of a Monday morning callover.

Woombite

 

[possumheart]

Awesome women at the bridge. Wahhhh! This woman trapped in the mountain cold.

 

[possumheart]

On ya Woombite. Not so warm for this mountain possum : (

 

[hello people]

Hello hello!
What do you think happened with Allison?

I think she was murdered by Gerard Baden Clay in either a fit of rage or in a cold and calculated plot.

 

[Woombite]

The only way that ABC's alleged depression would be relevant to the defense would be in supporting his innocent plea i.e. Allison was depressed and this led to her demise.To use it as an excuse for HIS actions would imply guilt. IMO

I don't think GBC using Allison's possible depression history to explain why she is now dead is going to wash.
I can not imagine that from the reports of what Allison is like, that she would choose her own death to be where she ended up. Not only that - is he going to paint her as a martyr who was sooo concerned about their financial probs that she 'chose' the 'selfless' thing to end her life so 'another woman' could step in and raise her children???? I DONT THINK SO!!!!
His 'goose' if guilty is pretty much cooked. (Sorry MG)
Woombite keeping warm in Woombie

 

[Sooner Fan#1]

:what:
What? I went to the bridge with some fantastic women today too!!!!
:what:

What a beautiful gesture! Bless you all!

 

[MaxwellSmart]

On Topic:

As I carried my daughter to bed (dead sleeping weight) last night I nearly cracked her head against the door frame coz it was dark. Would the murderer perhaps have been carrying Allison's body (dead or unconscious) to the vehicle when he cracked her head in his haste, against a carport pole or door frame, leading to an injury (including cracked tooth) which then left the blood smear with a drip and not was not necessarily classified as an "external" injury?

there has been so much said about GBC and his relationship to the scouting movement, I wonder why the great scouting motto of "Be Prepared" was not adhered to...?

an anonymous quote I found:

"Always tell the truth, that way you will never have to remember your story."


*Off Topic*

While there is no "fresh" news on the actual case I think it is cathartic to offer insights to one's own experiences as a reference point to that of Allison's. These discussions may be off topic and irrelevant to some posters, but on the whole it adds to the quest of "why did it happen", and it appears there have been alot of near misses from some of the members here. I for one don't want to leave this site/thread and post elsewhere - already have personal email, university email, skype, twitter and facebook (I'm sure that I am not in the minority here with the obsession to stay connected!)

:twocents:

 

[Mothergoose]

Yes and what people don't realise is what is behind some of those apparently unacceptable posts - they have no idea - think of the Bumps Min!!!

Some of the most beautiful people I have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss, and have found their way out of the depths. These persons have an appreciation, a sensitivity, and an understanding of life that fills them with compassion, gentleness, and a deep loving concern. Beautiful people do not just happen. I am pleased to say I have met a few on this forum. You're a treasure Mani .....off topic ..sorry Mods .

 

[Cyansea]

Thanks for answering that Angel1. I understand what you are saying.

Hi Angel1,
I just want to say that I feel for you so much....it's great that you have opened up here, so fantastic that you can trust enough to say something, just one thing though, does anyone else in you immediate circle of friends, family know how you feel? I'm thinking maybe to speak to your Doctor who can refer you to someone who can help you figure out "why" you would still love someone that hurts you. I don't really apologise when I'm trying to help someone, I wish I knew you better, but I've let one post go, was thinking about replying or sending you a PM. But after this post I thought well if you still love someone after they hurt you so much and you still think could hurt you, something needs to be done. There is something wrong with them, not you, they will make you feel like you don't deserve their love? THEY don't deserve your LOVE.I hope you have good community services in your area that can help you? Believe me we all have issues, I'm sure you are strong enough to get some insight into why you feel this way. All in good faith and because I care. The first step is always the hardest....

 

[possumheart]

Keep your face to the sunshine and you cannot see the shadow. It's what sunflowers do ~ Helen Keller

Couldn't agree more. You just made my day.

 

[Mothergoose]

I don't think GBC using Allison's possible depression history to explain why she is now dead is going to wash.
I can not imagine that from the reports of what Allison is like, that she would choose her own death to be where she ended up. Not only that - is he going to paint her as a martyr who was sooo concerned about their financial probs that she 'chose' the 'selfless' thing to end her life so 'another woman' could step in and raise her children???? I DONT THINK SO!!!!
His 'goose' if guilty is pretty much cooked. (Sorry MG)
Woombite keeping warm in Woombie

I agree , just think it's is only argument to support his innocent plea (if it is verified she was being treated for depression). That is what I said. Can't think what else (for the life of me) he could possibly use to back his plea up. IMO