Any other homicides on record that also had a ransom note?

[MyBelle]

There is no conclusion for me because even the experts don't have proof she wrote it.

A deranged mind would show up other places.. This was a killer. Someone who kills like this was not someone that lived a basically normal existence.

I am sure there are other ransom notes that had practice drafts that were just never found..

Is it logical to conclude that someone is writing a ransom note to fake a kidnapping and leave the practice note in the trash for the cops to find?
I don't know. But for me it seems to be a stretch.

sometimes conclusions are based on logic rather than proof. The totality of the evidence is what is considered.

A deranged mind does not necessarily show up in other places prior to the commission of a horrific crime. I don't believe Susan Smith showed any signs prior to drowning her children. We also don't know what the Grand Jury learned about Patsy Ramsey from witnesses. She may have had a history of mental illness for all I know. She was indicted for child abuse.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

sometimes conclusions are based on logic rather than proof. The totality of the evidence is what is considered.

A deranged mind does not necessarily show up in other places prior to the commission of a horrific crime. I don't believe Susan Smith showed any signs prior to drowning her children. We also don't know what the Grand Jury learned about Patsy Ramsey from witnesses. She may have had a history of mental illness for all I know. She was indicted for child abuse.

The logic is that someone who is trying to make a murder look like a kidnapping would then not leave a practice note in the trash to be found nor the body in the basement to be found. That is the problem for me.. The logic does not line up with the facts in the case. Susan Smith was deeply depressed for years. She was having an affair and that man said he did not want to have any children nor be a parent to hers. She did it because she was trying to please a man. Something she had always done. She admitted to what she did.

It is just not the same thing. IMHO

 

[MyBelle]

The logic is that someone who is trying to make a murder look like a kidnapping would then not leave a practice note in the trash to be found nor the body in the basement to be found. That is the problem for me.. The logic does not line up with the facts in the case. Susan Smith was deeply depressed for years. She was having an affair and that man said he did not want to have any children nor be a parent to hers. She did it because she was trying to please a man. Something she had always done. She admitted to what she did.

It is just not the same thing. IMHO

We'll have to agree to disagree. Susan Smith claimed her children were kidnapped and they were found in her car. Several experienced investigators on this case did conclude based on the totality of the evidence that Patsy wrote the note. I doubt the DA would have had trouble persuading a jury of it.

People can be deeply depressed for years and not become diabolical child killers. The only reason LE found Susan's Smith's children is because she confessed. If she had not confessed, we'd probably still be speculating on the fate of her little boys. There was nothing in her background to suggest she would drown them in a lake.

 

[celticthyme]

There really wasn't a "ransom note" in this case either. It was a 3 page missive, written by at least one of the Ramsey's to detract from the fact that they killed their daughter, Jon Benet, whose body was lying staged in the dark basement.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

We'll have to agree to disagree. Susan Smith claimed her children were kidnapped and they were found in her car. Several experienced investigators on this case did conclude based on the totality of the evidence that Patsy wrote the note. I doubt the DA would have had trouble persuading a jury of it.

People can be deeply depressed for years and not become diabolical child killers. The only reason LE found Susan's Smith's children is because she confessed. If she had not confessed, we'd probably still be speculating on the fate of her little boys. There was nothing in her background to suggest she would drown them in a lake.

Yes but she did not write a note and she did make her children disappear when she killed them. As horrific as that was. Her behavior supported her saying the kids were kidnapped.
There would have been a lot of room for the defense to prove she did not write it. That would have been just a battle of experts.

There was plenty in her background however that was disturbing including suicidal tendencies and behavior.


I just don't see the comparison and we will just have to ATD.

 

[MyBelle]

Yes but she did not write a note and she did make her children disappear when she killed them. As horrific as that was. Her behavior supported her saying the kids were kidnapped.
There would have been a lot of room for the defense to prove she did not write it. That would have been just a battle of experts.

There was plenty in her background however that was disturbing including suicidal tendencies and behavior.


I just don't see the comparison and we will just have to ATD.

Susan Smith didn't write a ransom note but she did file a police report and claimed they were carjacked and her kids were inside...kidnapped. She appeared before TV cameras and made a tearful plea for their return. All while her children were dead in the backseat of her own car.

Patsy Ramsey also claimed a stranger was out there and the children of Boulder were not safe.

We don't know Patsy Ramsey's background but I'm betting the Grand Jury was told.

 

[Tawny]

Applying logic to everything in an illogical murder is... illogical.

There was little IF ANY logic in any of the things that happened to JBR, regardless of who did them.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Susan Smith didn't write a ransom note but she did file a police report and claimed they were carjacked and her kids were inside...kidnapped. She appeared before TV cameras and made a tearful plea for their return. All while her children were dead in the backseat of her own car.

Patsy Ramsey also claimed a stranger was out there and the children of Boulder were not safe.

We don't know Patsy Ramsey's background but I'm betting the Grand Jury was told.

But she also got rid of the kids. She did not leave them there. If you are faking a kidnapping the kids have got to disappear.

 

[MyBelle]

But she also got rid of the kids. She did not leave them there. If you are faking a kidnapping the kids have got to disappear.

The purpose of the ransom note in both cases was to deflect attention. Susan didn't get rid of the kids, she got rid of her car. It wasn't known to be a fake kidnapping until she confessed.

I think it is very similar to the thought process of Patsy Ramsey. The ransom note did deflect attention of law enforcement and it was initially believed to be a kidnapping. Patsy's daughter's homicide has not been solved because nobody has confessed.

 

[bettybaby00]

The Rs never knew how far the staging (the note) would go. It worked well enough that by the time the body was found, they had established themselves as victims. That ruse lasted long enough for the lawyers to be called, and for the sheilds to go up. Once in place, AH, and then ML wouldn't/couldn't get beyond the impenetrable defense.

And that's just how LW wanted it. :banghead:

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

The purpose of the ransom note in both cases was to deflect attention. Susan didn't get rid of the kids, she got rid of her car. It wasn't known to be a fake kidnapping until she confessed.

I think it is very similar to the thought process of Patsy Ramsey. The ransom note did deflect attention of law enforcement and it was initially believed to be a kidnapping. Patsy's daughter's homicide has not been solved because nobody has confessed.

She got rid of the kids. The car was just the means to do it.

It is not the same. And Patsy is not SS.

If you write a ransom you have to get rid of the body or it is futile.

JBR's homicide has not been solved because it has been a bumble cluster from the beginning. Evidence was probably lost when the police did not handle the case right from the beginning.

 

[MyBelle]

She got rid of the kids. The car was just the means to do it.

It is not the same. And Patsy is not SS.

If you write a ransom you have to get rid of the body or it is futile.

JBR's homicide has not been solved because it has been a bumble cluster from the beginning. Evidence was probably lost when the police did not handle the case right from the beginning.

If it is a fake kidnapping, it is unnecessary to get rid of the body. The goal is to deflect and delay police. It was effective in the Susan Smith case and it was effective in the Ramsey case. Susan only got caught because she confessed.

It makes no difference whether Patsy hid her daughter's body or not. The note was still a fake note. Patsy never confessed to cops.

While you may wish to blame cops, the difference in the cases is that Patsy Ramsey had the services of very effective attorneys to ensure that no polygraph was given and no interrogation took place. Susan Smith did not.

JonBenet still hasn't received justice not because of bumbling cops but because of her parents' wealth and influence, imo.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

If it is a fake kidnapping, it is unnecessary to get rid of the body. The goal is to deflect and delay police. It was effective in the Susan Smith case and it was effective in the Ramsey case. Susan only got caught because she confessed.

It makes no difference whether Patsy hid her daughter's body or not. The note was still a fake note. Patsy never confessed to cops.

While you may wish to blame cops, the difference in the cases is that Patsy Ramsey had the services of very effective attorneys to ensure that no polygraph was given and no interrogation took place. Susan Smith did not.

JonBenet still hasn't received justice not because of bumbling cops but because of her parents' wealth and influence, imo.

Im sorry I am just going to have to move past this. If you are trying to fake a kidnapping you get rid of the body. Susan faked a kidnapping by getting rid of the kids.
IT does make a difference especially when That note is not fake. IT is a real note in the house and the author has not been named definitively.

There is plenty of blame on the cops who made a mess of it from the very beginning.
JBR has not received justice IMO, because there was such a mess made of this case from the beginning.

I really don't do wealth bias blaming. It just does not work for me..

We will have to move past this. This is my last response on this matter.

 

[Tawny]

Maybe they didn't have time to move the body. Something went wrong, she changed her mind about leaving the body to the elements, who knows, but it doesn't automatically mean that it's a REAL kidnapping.

The "logic" that it must be a real kidnapping because the body of the child is in the house is the most flawed attempt at logic I have ever witnessed.

Take out the note altogether and it's not even a "kidnapping" scenario. It's just homicide. The note was misdirection.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Maybe they didn't have time to move the body. Something went wrong, she changed her mind about leaving the body to the elements, who knows, but it doesn't automatically mean that it's a REAL kidnapping.

The "logic" that it must be a real kidnapping because the body of the child is in the house is the most flawed attempt at logic I have ever witnessed.

Take out the note altogether and it's not even a "kidnapping" scenario. It's just homicide. The note was misdirection.

I had considered that but they had all the time in the world. We have a good window as to when this all happened.. They had plenty of time to get rid of the body.

It is not flawed. It has teeth to it. If you have a kidnapping you can not have a body. If you have body then there was no kidnapping. If they were planning to make it look like a kidnapping getting rid of the body is essential.

What was the plan.. .call the police, hope they go away and then get rid of her and go on the run>?

It just make no sense if you are trying to get away with a murder.

NIMMO

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I had considered that but they had all the time in the world. We have a good window as to when this all happened.. They had plenty of time to get rid of the body.

It is not flawed. It has teeth to it. If you have a kidnapping you can not have a body. If you have body then there was no kidnapping. If they were planning to make it look like a kidnapping getting rid of the body is essential.

What was the plan.. .call the police, hope they go away and then get rid of her and go on the run>?

It just make no sense if you are trying to get away with a murder.

NIMMO

They did not have all the time in the world, due to their trip to Michigan on 12/26. They only had until they would be getting up in the morning for it.

Perhaps, Burke was awake, they didn't want to leave him home alone, nor did they want to take him w/ them to dispose of the body.

 

[MyBelle]

Maybe they didn't have time to move the body. Something went wrong, she changed her mind about leaving the body to the elements, who knows, but it doesn't automatically mean that it's a REAL kidnapping.

The "logic" that it must be a real kidnapping because the body of the child is in the house is the most flawed attempt at logic I have ever witnessed.

Take out the note altogether and it's not even a "kidnapping" scenario. It's just homicide. The note was misdirection.

Absolutely. The foreign faction was no more "real" than the black guy Susan Smith claimed carjacked her.

 

[Tawny]

They did not have all the time in the world, due to their trip to Michigan on 12/26. They only had until they would be getting up in the morning for it.

Perhaps, Burke was awake, they didn't want to leave him home alone, nor did they want to take him w/ them to dispose of the body.

In all my thinks about why the body was in the house, never once did I consider that maybe they didn't want to leave the house with/without BR. :facepalm: Slow Tawny is slow.

 

[MyBelle]

In all my thinks about why the body was in the house, never once did I consider that maybe they didn't want to leave the house with/without BR. :facepalm: Slow Tawny is slow.

JR could have disposed of the body without PR going along. The fact that he didn't is yet another reason I think it's possible he didn't know the child was dead at that point.

I think Patsy's plan was to fit the body into that hard-sided Samsonite suitcase and when it didn't fit, she decided to leave the body there because she didn't want it exposed to the elements.

 

[Tawny]

JR could have disposed of the body without PR going along. The fact that he didn't is yet another reason I think it's possible he didn't know the child was dead at that point.

I think Patsy's plan was to fit the body into that hard-sided Samsonite suitcase and when it didn't fit, she decided to leave the body there because she didn't want it exposed to the elements.

I feel like it really did come down to being unable to imagine her/their baby girl being outside in the cold exposed to animals and who knows what.