Any other homicides on record that also had a ransom note?

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I feel like it really did come down to being unable to imagine her/their baby girl being outside in the cold exposed to animals and who knows what.

Hmmm, I don't think so. If you can choke the life out of your baby.. What happens to her after that, Is not going to bother you much.

 

[MyBelle]

I feel like it really did come down to being unable to imagine her/their baby girl being outside in the cold exposed to animals and who knows what.

I agree. Those Samsonite suitcases were virtually indestructible and Smit told Larry King there was evidence in the form of fibers on her clothes...

Yet another reason I don't believe BR had the capability to murder his sister.


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0105/28/lkl.00.html

Perhaps he don't have a place to take JonBenet. Perhaps he couldn't get her out of the house. I believe that the suitcase has another function in that window. I think perhaps he tried to stick her in that suitcase. I believe that there is...

KING: Really they are going...

SMIT: Fibers on the outside of JonBenet's clothing which may have come from the material inside that suitcase. That is what the lab report says.

KING: Certainly, it is hard to believe a mother would garrote a child. I mean that -- a stretch.

SMIT: Larry, that is not only a stretch, it has never been done before. There is no recorded...

KING: You never found a case where a mother did that.

SMIT: Never recorded history where a family member -- a mother or a father has garroted their child. Child strangulation is very rare. Usually when a person is involved in the death of their child, the child is hit on the head or pushed into something, to take -- to take a piece of rope, fashion a garrote, put it on the child's neck, she is definitely struggling at the time that this is put on the neck, there are fingernail marks in her neck, which suggest very strongly, that she was awake, when this happened.

 

[Tawny]

Hmmm, I don't think so. If you can choke the life out of your baby.. What happens to her after that, Is not going to bother you much.

I don't believe PR murdered her, so I don't disagree with your statement.

 

[DeDee]

Maybe they didn't have time to move the body. Something went wrong, she changed her mind about leaving the body to the elements, who knows, but it doesn't automatically mean that it's a REAL kidnapping.

The "logic" that it must be a real kidnapping because the body of the child is in the house is the most flawed attempt at logic I have ever witnessed.

Take out the note altogether and it's not even a "kidnapping" scenario. It's just homicide. The note was misdirection.

Officially, the kidnapping occurred when JonBenet was removed from her bed and left abandoned by whomever in the basement.

It became a kidnapping once the binding of cords was in place .

It became a kidnapping and the child could not escape after her head was horrifically bashed. When she was hit with such high velocity and force, it knocked a large plug out of her skull.

A bash meant to kill not just silence, as in many BDI theories. I mean "she screams so the young killer reaches over and grabs a golf club or flashlight and forcefully bashes his sister's head with deadly force to quickly silence her"? Um. No.

That does not mean that a 9yom, or almost 10yom, could not possess the physical capacity to rear back and clobber the head of someone. I just don't think BR is guilty of the insidious crime against his baby sister.

OMO

 

[DeDee]

Hmmm, I don't think so. If you can choke the life out of your baby.. What happens to her after that, Is not going to bother you much.

Unless you are someone like Patsy Ramsey, then, it matters a great deal. You would want all of the pomp and circumstance, beauty and glory, grief and sorrow that goes with the memorializing of a loved one.

Whether Patsy murdered her daughter, or someone else named or yet to be named did it, Patsy would have held a very similar funeral for her daughter in GA, with herself copying a grieving Jackie Kennedy and a tombstone date of December 25, 1996.

OMO

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Since this thread seems to be for talking about the rare aspects of this case, I was thinking about how we don't really see cases where a child in a two-parent household is killed, and both parents are involved in the murder and coverup. Both of these cases are unsolved but Lisa Irwin and Sabrina Aisenberg might fit. But what other cases?

In 2009, 68.9% of children lived in a two-parent household. Yet, we rarely see cases where a married couple kills their child, where both are involved in either the murder or coverup.

 

[bettybaby00]

Since this thread seems to be for talking about the rare aspects of this case, I was thinking about how we don't really see cases where a child in a two-parent household is killed, and both parents are involved in the murder and coverup. Both of these cases are unsolved but Lisa Irwin and Sabrina Aisenberg might fit. But what other cases?

In 2009, 68.9% of children lived in a two-parent household. Yet, we rarely see cases where a married couple kills their child, where both are involved in either the murder or coverup.

Lisa Steinbreg came immediately to mind.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/family/lisa_steinberg/1.html

 

[THE BUNK]

Hmmm, I don't think so. If you can choke the life out of your baby.. What happens to her after that, Is not going to bother you much.

But, she won't have a "proper funeral". Something that would be of great importance to the Ramsey's.

 

[THE BUNK]

---Since this thread seems to be for talking about the rare aspects of this case, I was thinking about how we don't really see cases where a child in a two-parent household is killed, and both parents are involved in the murder and coverup. Both of these cases are unsolved but Lisa Irwin and Sabrina Aisenberg might fit. But what other cases?

---

Not many parents have the financial resources to make kidnapping your kid for ransom seem viable.

A family on welfare is going to have a hard time saying some fiend broke into their two bedroom apt and left a five page ransom note saying we are a foreign faction that wants $10,000.

Even fewer people have a beauty queen daughter and live in dwellings like the Ramsey's.

 

[THE BUNK]

You know, it occurs to me just how more difficult it is for the Ramsey's to dispose of the body rather than the intruder.

1. Unlike the intruders, the Ramsey's have to go back to the home after they dispose the body.

2. Unlike the intruders, the Ramsey's need to have an excuse as to what they were doing when said disposal of body has occured.

3. Unlike the intruders, the Ramsey's have another child that needs to be watched, So only one of them can take part in the disposal.

4. Unlike the intruders, the Ramsey's need to find a location that is far away from the house and maybe even outside of their own city in which to dispose the body. The intruder could just dump her into a trash bin without a care in the world.

5. Unlike the intruders, the Ramseys have to concern themselves with making sure her body is not dug up with evidence that clearly links them.

Most likely what happened is that the Ramsey's did not consider the difficulties in disposing Jonbenet's body and had to adlib a crime scene. Using the very convenient paintbrush that was available in the basement.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

---

Not many parents have the financial resources to make kidnapping your kid for ransom seem viable.

A family on welfare is going to have a hard time saying some fiend broke into their two bedroom apt and left a five page ransom note saying we are a foreign faction that wants $10,000.

Even fewer people have a beauty queen daughter and live in dwellings like the Ramsey's.

My post wasn't saying the RN is rare (although it is)...It was about the two parent aspect of the case, how it seems rare to have two parents murder and cover up the killing of their child together.

 

[TaylurRose02]

Im confused.. Everyone knows what happens in a kidnapping. It has not changed in 50 years. The cops come in and search and start investigating everyone and everything.

It makes no sense for PR to write that note. Not if JBR was in the house. All ransom notes tie the kidnapped to the parents actions..

" You will only get them back if.. We will kill them if... We will hurt them if..
If you want to see them alive again you will....

That is not uncommon.

I'm new to the forum, so I thought I'd just jump right into posting! I love your username by the way! Anyways, in my opinion it wouldn't logically make sense for an intruder to write a ransom note either and leave the body in the home.
If an intruder wrote the note then he or she wasn't too sure why. The writer originally wrote out "The two gentlemen watching over your daughter do particularly like you," but then the word "not" was carrot-ed in between do and particularly. I will go ahead and point out that as a journalism major, we use this particular revision sign a lot when editing and given that PR was also a journalism major the use of that editing symbol is a red flag. Why would someone motivated enough for the crime make this mistake? The end of note also establishes a hateful tone towards JR, so again why is this mistake made if such strong emotions are present? In addition, the intruder makes the mistake of writing delivery of JB and then crossing it out and writing pick up. Again, making this mistake wouldn't make much sense either if an intruder wrote the note. I also want to include that the study pf journalism applies an emphasis on mastering how to appeal to various kinds of audiences and evoking ideal responses...
I won't continue on with my own take on the ransom note unless someone is interested, but if an intruder did write the note then it shows that they weren't very invested in the crime or that their own intentions weren't very clear to even themselves. This finding would clash with the fact that their were no points of forced entry found nor any fingerprints or noises heard by the family. IMO, that would mean the intruder would have to have been very prepared and that the crime was premeditated. The intruder theory just leaves me with more questions than answers. As much as I don't want to believe that someone could hurt their own child, it happens every day and I do lean towards someone in the family being involved.

 

[4Jacy]

I'm new to the forum, so I thought I'd just jump right into posting! I love your username by the way! Anyways, in my opinion it wouldn't logically make sense for an intruder to write a ransom note either and leave the body in the home.
If an intruder wrote the note then he or she wasn't too sure why. The writer originally wrote out "The two gentlemen watching over your daughter do particularly like you," but then the word "not" was carrot-ed in between do and particularly. I will go ahead and point out that as a journalism major, we use this particular revision sign a lot when editing and given that PR was also a journalism major the use of that editing symbol is a red flag. Why would someone motivated enough for the crime make this mistake? The end of note also establishes a hateful tone towards JR, so again why is this mistake made if such strong emotions are present? In addition, the intruder makes the mistake of writing delivery of JB and then crossing it out and writing pick up. Again, making this mistake wouldn't make much sense either if an intruder wrote the note. I also want to include that the study pf journalism applies an emphasis on mastering how to appeal to various kinds of audiences and evoking ideal responses...
I won't continue on with my own take on the ransom note unless someone is interested, but if an intruder did write the note then it shows that they weren't very invested in the crime or that their own intentions weren't very clear to even themselves. This finding would clash with the fact that their were no points of forced entry found nor any fingerprints or noises heard by the family. IMO, that would mean the intruder would have to have been very prepared and that the crime was premeditated. The intruder theory just leaves me with more questions than answers. As much as I don't want to believe that someone could hurt their own child, it happens every day and I do lean towards someone in the family being involved.

Great post and welcome!! :wagon:

 

[Charterhouse]

I'm new to the forum, so I thought I'd just jump right into posting! I love your username by the way! Anyways, in my opinion it wouldn't logically make sense for an intruder to write a ransom note either and leave the body in the home.
If an intruder wrote the note then he or she wasn't too sure why. The writer originally wrote out "The two gentlemen watching over your daughter do particularly like you," but then the word "not" was carrot-ed in between do and particularly. I will go ahead and point out that as a journalism major, we use this particular revision sign a lot when editing and given that PR was also a journalism major the use of that editing symbol is a red flag. Why would someone motivated enough for the crime make this mistake? The end of note also establishes a hateful tone towards JR, so again why is this mistake made if such strong emotions are present? In addition, the intruder makes the mistake of writing delivery of JB and then crossing it out and writing pick up. Again, making this mistake wouldn't make much sense either if an intruder wrote the note. I also want to include that the study pf journalism applies an emphasis on mastering how to appeal to various kinds of audiences and evoking ideal responses...
I won't continue on with my own take on the ransom note unless someone is interested, but if an intruder did write the note then it shows that they weren't very invested in the crime or that their own intentions weren't very clear to even themselves. This finding would clash with the fact that their were no points of forced entry found nor any fingerprints or noises heard by the family. IMO, that would mean the intruder would have to have been very prepared and that the crime was premeditated. The intruder theory just leaves me with more questions than answers. As much as I don't want to believe that someone could hurt their own child, it happens every day and I do lean towards someone in the family being involved.

I am sure we would all like to hear your "take on the ransom note". At least, I would like to hear more.

Welcome!

 

[Tulessa]

Stepmom Confesses to Writing Ransom Note, Turning North Carolina Missing Girl Case into Homicide Investigation


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/10/11/search-disabled-nc-girl-parents-questioned/

 

[Tulessa]

Nicknames used in a ransom note were critical clues that helped Upper Merion police crack the weeklong mystery that gripped the region and Asian Indians around the world after Monday's discovery of the throat-slashed body of 61-year-old Satayrathi Venna, and the disappearance of her 10-month-old granddaughter Saanvi.

http://articles.philly.com/2012-10-28/news/34765508_1_ransom-note-saanvi-venna-killings

 

[InstantProof]

I feel like it really did come down to being unable to imagine her/their baby girl being outside in the cold exposed to animals and who knows what.

"proper burial" is even on the mind of the author of the ransom note. IMO Patsy refused to let her be removed and didn't care if note/body made no sense.

 

[Frigga]

"proper burial" is even on the mind of the author of the ransom note. IMO Patsy refused to let her be removed and didn't care if note/body made no sense.

Very good point!

 

[DeDee]

I'm new to the forum, so I thought I'd just jump right into posting! I love your username by the way! Anyways, in my opinion it wouldn't logically make sense for an intruder to write a ransom note either and leave the body in the home.

Greetings and welcome! :seeya:

If an intruder wrote the note then he or she wasn't too sure why. The writer originally wrote out "The two gentlemen watching over your daughter do particularly like you," but then the word "not" was carrot-ed in between do and particularly. I will go ahead and point out that as a journalism major, we use this particular revision sign a lot when editing and given that PR was also a journalism major the use of that editing symbol is a red flag. Why would someone motivated enough for the crime make this mistake?

There are several mistakes in the RN all of which I believe were intentional except for this one that was caught when the author was proofreading the note. Gentlemen kidnappers. Then, there should be nothing to fear.

The end of note also establishes a hateful tone towards JR, so again why is this mistake made if such strong emotions are present? In addition, the intruder makes the mistake of writing delivery of JB and then crossing it out and writing pick up.

IMHO, the mark through the word delivery was intentional because the author needed to show that the victim had become a pick-up [for her abuser].

Again, making this mistake wouldn't make much sense either if an intruder wrote the note. I also want to include that the study pf journalism applies an emphasis on mastering how to appeal to various kinds of audiences and evoking ideal responses...

I won't continue on with my own take on the ransom note unless someone is interested, but if an intruder did write the note then it shows that they weren't very invested in the crime or that their own intentions weren't very clear to even themselves. This finding would clash with the fact that their were no points of forced entry found nor any fingerprints or noises heard by the family. IMO, that would mean the intruder would have to have been very prepared and that the crime was premeditated. The intruder theory just leaves me with more questions than answers. As much as I don't want to believe that someone could hurt their own child, it happens every day and I do lean towards someone in the family being involved.

We eagerly await your statement analysis of the ransom note.

 

[TaylurRose02]

Thank you for the warm welcomes everyone! I'm going off memory at the moment, so forgive me if tend to ramble. I too believe that the spelling mistakes were intentional to throw off readers. One thing that's always stuck out to me was the tone of the note and how it changes dramatically from page one to page three. The note begins by addressing JR as Mr. Ramsey and almost sounds as though a terrorist group is responsible ("We respect your business, but not the country that it serves") , but near the end of the note begins to refer to him directly as John and addresses him harshly. I believe that this progression of the hostile emotions towards JR mean that the author of the note was very personal with him and would therefore know of his wealth. This finding leads me to question the small amount demanded for JB. Why leave a ransom at all? Secondly, the author says the family is under "constant scrutiny' and if any calls are made JB will be "executed." I can understand the family calling police, but why would they feel the need to call on their friends and pastor? That is a complete "deviation" from the notes instructions which warned repeatedly what would happen if they chose to do so. This leads me to believe that the parents were well aware that there was no "foreign faction" able to harm JB. i will continue this when I get home tonight and have access to my case notes! Thanks guys!