Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #4

[papertrail]

Hi guys, I'm new as a member of websleuths community but have been actively reading the CSK forums for the last few years both here and else where.

Just some points I would like to clarify that I see mentioned quite a lot.

1)Just because a suspect has been ruled out means absolutely nothing, Ted Bundy, Gary Ridgeway, The Yorkshire ripper & Paul Bernado (Ken & Barbie killers) just to name a few were all ruled out in the investigations of their crimes, only to be nabbed years later.

2) There is a clear progression pattern with serial killers, from stalking, to rape, to killing. Just because one may kill but not sexually assault a victim has no representation on the crimes he/she committed in the early stages of their progression, a rapist might go on to murder without sexual assault, this is because the murder/inflicting fear itself is where the killer gains the sexual arousal.

3) Assuming the victims were familiar with the killer is a reasonable assumption but not rock solid, Ted Bundy was able to lure intelligent young woman into his vehicle with nothing more than an arm cast and pure charm. Another case I read, unsure right now of the name simply pulled up beside his victims, flashed a knife and told them to get into his car which 6 of 7 woman did.

LW still remains my strongest suspect of all the known suspects there is however there is one point that leads me to believe it wasn't him. There is absolutely no way he would just stop, even if he knew he was under surveillance. To kill in this fashion is more than a simple wanting to do so, it is a compulsion, I could see him going 5 or 10 years without a kill, but 20 is getting beyond reasonable, even less so without trophies which is something most serial killers use to relive the fantasy during the cooling down periods. (I assume after so many police searches that if it was him some trophies would have been found).

Now with that said I have a question for the community...

Has anyone looked into similar murders across Australia or New Zealand in the time frame after these murders took place? I highly doubt that killer simply stopped, aside from being in jail or dead it is almost a guarantee that he would continue to kill, the time frames between murders might change, the methods of murder might change and the locations might change, but not the compulsion to kill.

EDITED*
Second question, At the time of the murders were there any Holden Manufacturers or Holden accessory manufacturers in and around the Perth area? I tried a google search but couldn't find much so hoping a local could shed light on that.

A couple of things re LW. He received comprehensive and ongoing psychological treatment including intensive drug therapy; hence he may not have had the opportunity. He did regress back home to mother's apron strings so I consider she has a great influence upon him. I wonder what will occur when she passes; his father passed in 2007. He could hide victim trophies anywhere. Newspaper articles, publicity, blogging sites and forums are all modern day trophies. He visits his local library so does he do this so he can readup on current issues.

 

[Parkie]

Papertrail I started looking at VR`s first then VS 1s & yeah 2`s in 96. Was so long ago hey. I can`t remember small details like that exactly. Anyways you guys won`t get to the bottom of the VS wagon if the Cops can`t.

 

[Bartholemeus]

the trim doesn't have to be relevant only to the colour white.

The man who terrorised the western suburbs in the mid- 1990s drove a white mid-1990s Holden Commodore VS Series 1

Then they must be relying on the 3 guys at the bus stop's description of the car CG was talking to.


How did he "blitz attack" her then?

 

[J35]

What's your point ? Did you bother to do a bit of comparison between Acclaim, Berlina, Executive (etc) for 1994 and 1996 whilst you were at it...

1994 is a VR commodore
I looked at confirmed 1995 VY-series 1 (no risk of seller posting series 2 by mistake) as in some cases 96 VY Series 2 cars were being sold in ads with a title of 96 VS Commodore (ie. series 1)
I looked at confirmed 1996 VY-series 2 (no risk of seller posting series 1 by mistake) to look at the difference between confirmed series 1 and series 2 versions of the same vehicle model
I looked at white vs coloured wagons, white vs coloured sedans, and compared between.

My point is you have claimed something that is not fact- each model clearly has a different interior trim and this varies between each series

I agree 100% with Bart (post 76; this thread) regarding your posts (we know your not ********ting but you often say you have a reference for something and then it never gets posted) .... also can you please post all your stuff in 1 or 2 post instead of 10 -- you can quote multiple people in a single post.

PS. someone said on here that the fibers were unique to a WHITE stationwagon.. not sure where this came from... but I have yet to see the proof...
If you have proof then please show me and I will stand corrected and happily apologize

 

[papertrail]

Then they must be relying on the 3 guys at the bus stop's description of the car CG was talking to.


How did he "blitz attack" her then?

Been through all this discussion previously. A blitz attack doesn't have to occur on the footpath. It can occur in a vehicle. a blitz attack is an attack by surprise. As I have mentioned before, when a passenger is getting into a vehicle, they do so with their back (mainly) facing the driver. Perfect time for a blitz attack.

 

[papertrail]

Papertrail I started looking at VR`s first then VS 1s & yeah 2`s in 96. Was so long ago hey. I can`t remember small details like that exactly. Anyways you guys won`t get to the bottom of the VS wagon if the Cops can`t.

Yep understand what you say there Parkie. Can I ask why you keep referring to your personal journey looking at vehicles and why you feel the need to keep mentioning Telstra.

 

[papertrail]

1994 is a VR commodore
I looked at confirmed 1995 VY-series 1 (no risk of seller posting series 2 by mistake) as in some cases 96 VY Series 2 cars were being sold in ads with a title of 96 VS Commodore (ie. series 1)
I looked at confirmed 1996 VY-series 2 to look at the difference between confirmed series 1 and series 2 versions of the same vehicle model
I looked at white vs coloured wagons, white vs coloured sedans, and compared between.

My point is you have claimed something that is not fact- each model clearly has a different interior trim as does each series

If you look VERY carefully and observe the fabric pattern, you WILL note that the Acclaim pattern always has a different type of pattern. The Berlina and Calais patterns are always geometric (ie shapes), but the Acclaim fabric stands out because it is always a different pattern. I suppose that is why the vehicle was named Acclaim.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Been through all this discussion previously. A blitz attack doesn't have to occur on the footpath. It can occur in a vehicle. a blitz attack is an attack by surprise. As I have mentioned before, when a passenger is getting into a vehicle, they do so with their back (mainly) facing the driver. Perfect time for a blitz attack.

That's not a blitz attack in the context of this case.

How did the killer get the victims into his car?

1. Option 1 = they got in his car

2. Option 2 = he blitz attacked them and forced them into his car.


So how does the guy in the white commodore station wagon blitz attack CG when she is leaning up to the passenger window? Some options;

1. Use his strength to pull her through window
2. Taser her and pull her through the window
3. Threaten her with a weapon to get in the car
4. Disable her, get out of car, run around and put her in the car


If BC is sure the car is a white Holden Station wagon based on fibre match as well as witnesses, then blitz attack seems unlikely.

 

[J35]

If you look VERY carefully and observe the fabric pattern, you WILL note that the Acclaim pattern always has a different type of pattern. The Berlina and Calais patterns are always geometric (ie shapes), but the Acclaim fabric stands out because it is always a different pattern. I suppose that is why the vehicle was named Acclaim.

They all appear to have a different pattern? How can you link seat trim pattern to specific model of commodore based on 60 fibers collected at the scene?????
How can you link seat trim pattern to specific model of commodore if the transfer was not from sitting in the seat normally
Please post pics and explain and please reread my previous posts as it has been edited since

 

[J35]

That's not a blitz attack in the context of this case.

How did the killer get the victims into his car?

1. Option 1 = they got in his car

2. Option 2 = he blitz attacked them and forced them into his car.


So how does the guy in the white commodore station wagon blitz attack CG when she is leaning up to the passenger window? Some options;

1. Use his strength to pull her through window
2. Taser her and pull her through the window
3. Threaten her with a weapon to get in the car
4. Disable her, get out of car, run around and put her in the car


If BC is sure the car is a white Holden Station wagon based on fibre match as well as witnesses, then blitz attack seems unlikely.

5. Person hiding in the back (assumes 2 people)

 

[MyLeftFoot]

Then they must be relying on the 3 guys at the bus stop's description of the car CG was talking to.How did he "blitz attack" her then?

From the Crimestoppers website
https://www.crimestopperswa.com.au/open-cases/ciara-eilish-glennon/

Investigators are confident that there are sightings of Ciara down on Stirling Highway outside a business called Australian Computer Resellers, next to the Dental Surgery.
As she passed the Taste of Thai Restaurant and Baptist Church, a male person who was sitting at the bus stop opposite called out to her that she was ‘crazy’ for hitch hiking. Ciara dismissed him with a wave/gesture. This male was with two other friends. A few minutes later Ciara is seen interacting with the occupant/s of a light coloured vehicle further along Stirling Highway, near Stirling Road.

Ciara is seen to lean over with her hands on her knees and it appears she speaks to the occupant/s.

A few minutes later,* the male turns back and the vehicle and Ciara are no longer in view. *There are other possible sightings of Ciara along Stirling highway and it cannot be confirmed if Ciara did or did not get into this vehicle.

The occupant/s of this light coloured vehicle has/have not been identified.
Ciara was reported missing to Police on the 15th of March, 1997.
On the 3rd of April ,1997; 18 days after being reported missing, Ciara’s body was found in bush off Pipidinny Road, Eglington.

*The male... This implies that there was ONE witness. The reasoning of a station wagon has come from ONE witness.
*There are other possible sightings of Ciara along Stirling highway and it cannot be confirmed if Ciara did or did not get into this vehicle.
*The occupant/s of this light coloured vehicle has/have not been identified.

 

[J35]

even less so without trophies which is something most serial killers use to relive the fantasy during the cooling down periods.

Welcome! Good informative post

Not all killers keep trophies.. for example. The Green River Killer in Seattle got his kicks from leaving his 'trophies' in the toilet at work - he got a kick from see female employees wearing the items ... Some even re-gift the items to girlfriends and get the kick that way (Ref 2)
REFERENCE
1) http://murderpedia.org/male.R/r/ridgway-gary.htm (click on Prosecutor's summary of evidence file- iv posted the link before, it gives you great insight into the mind of a killer with 30+ kills))
2) Born to Kill Series 8 (Foxtel, Serial Killer Sunday- an episode between 1-4-- guy killed prostitutes and worked at the warehouse that provided the police staion with all their gear- previous conviction of killing his son-- if that helps to narrow down the episode)

 

[CSK?]

Thanks for the references, I'll check them out now mate.

cheers.

 

[J35]

Thanks for the references, I'll check them out now mate.

cheers.

No worries, very interesting read.

Key points that could be transferred to CSK:
Strangled victims (mostly prostitutes) from behind (but during the act of sex)
Strangled victims lost continence (He often got his victims to do movements before sex)
He hated the police finding his victims -- they were his and didnt want them to be found
He dumped them near recognisable land marks -- so that he could return
Grouped most victims in locations (up to 5 at a time)... then changed dump location once bodies had been found
How he dumped the body was interesting--- often carried up to 50 yards or more--- would dump, then drive up the road a bit, put on hazard lights, walk back and conseal better
Paint particles specific to Mak colours (where he worked) were found on the found bodies ----- similar link between screen printing and Kara + CG ??

 

[Parkie]

Ink was found on the rope, along with Cotton t shirt material. Rope was found at one of the scenes.
Papertrail, No reason why I mentioned Telstra at all. When I check out cars at an auction I first look at year,milage & who owned it first. Then I check ciggy lighter, then radio stations. That tells me how calm a previous owner has been. Someone who listens to say 6IX is a reas calm driver & keep their vehicles looking well. Now getting onto the blitz theory; I recon they got in fine. Then the SHTF. If a knife is used to subdue then the girl reacts in a way so they might live. The best thing is to scream first to bring attention but maybe there was no one around to help. Maybe he used the knife to bring on silence & possibly they were tied up in the car just after leaving Claremont area, sad to say tbh. CG was wise enough being well travelled. But she probably never even thought about previous victims. I mean she was having drinks with work colleagues. Her folks would not have thought she was going to hitch hike home. I recon the csk was at work & also someone/s else over a time. Totally unknown to each other.

 

[Parkie]

No worries, very interesting read.

Key points that could be transferred to CSK:
Strangled victims (mostly prostitutes) from behind (but during the act of sex)
Strangled victims lost continence (He often got his victims to do movements before sex)
He hated the police finding his victims -- they were his and didnt want them to be found
He dumped them near recognisable land marks -- so that he could return
Grouped most victims in locations (up to 5 at a time)... then changed dump location once bodies had been found
How he dumped the body was interesting--- often carried up to 50 yards or more--- would dump, then drive up the road a bit, put on hazard lights, walk back and conseal better
Paint particles specific to Mak colours (where he worked) were found on the found bodies ----- similar link between screen printing and Kara + CG ??

Any potential CSK would not put Hazard lights on lmao. Why not put some orange cones out on the street as well. Wear a flouro vest for safety too while at it. Five bodies in an area? Wow talk about grouping. Police recon he placed SS & JR near each other & in his mind that is too close for comfort. So he headed north. But then again East might be his idea re SS.. Hard to say. Also; what is this--->Strangled victims lost continence (modsnip)

 

[Parkie]

JR was a quick drop, and I`m sad to say that. This is horrible stuff. He would have had no time at all & would be panicky considering the locale. CG well he had all the time to find somewhere.

 

[silver tongue]

parkie im not above you not below you im with you,but what does this mean
quote i recon the csk was at work and also someone\s else over a time. totally unknown to each other ?

 

[Parkie]

Sorry. I mean CSK was doing his stuff around the same time some creepy Taxi dudes were doing theirs. Yes when I mentioned work it looked like he was at his employment. I saw this discrepancy & good of you to mention this so I can clarify.

 

[silver tongue]

a lot of bad dudes getting around perth in the 90s
do you think maybe mm could be one of the creepy taxi dudes rather than the "csk," . he looked a bit like a taxi driver in that" puffy shirt"