Found Deceased Australia - Gary Tweddle, 23, Blue Mountains NSW, 16 July 2013 - #3

[Xantara]

Just turning my mind back to a random comment made in the previous thread, about all the bushes on the escarpment where Gary went over. On the one hand, yes, they'd obscure your view of where the ground gives way but, on the other hand, someone mentioned you'd think they could also have caught his fall. Anyone who knows that spot reasonably well, or spots similar in nature, if a person veered off any kind of track close to a cliff and there were so many bushes, would you expect them to fall a full 30 metres?

 

[indigo7]

Just turning my mind back to a random comment made in the previous thread, about all the bushes on the escarpment where Gary went over. On the one hand, yes, they'd obscure your view of where the ground gives way but, on the other hand, someone mentioned you'd think they could also have caught his fall. Anyone who knows that spot reasonably well, or spots similar in nature, if a person veered off any kind of track close to a cliff and there were so many bushes, would you expect them to fall a full 30 metres?

It depends on the terrain as it is ever changing but normally if you tripped or veered off near the path the dense bushland would "capture" you, so to speak. I don't know of many paths that go straight up to a sheer cliff face - I would think you would have to go off track and hike a bit through scrub and bushland to get to the edge.
See pictures of climbers on the Sweet Dreams rockface and the steep bushy terrain at the top in this blog http://www.david-noble.net/climbing/2006/SweetDreams/SweetDreams.html

 

[SouthAussie]

One would also think that toppling off a cliff (after clambering through the scrub to reach the cliff) into trees and bushes that are, no doubt, very sturdy to be able to grow and survive in that rocky semi-vertical terrain, would make it even more likely that you would get hung up in trees or bushes. It doesn't look like a sheer drop where Gary was found.
Unless you didn't topple off, unless you were pushed, thrown, or took a running jump (would that even be possible considering the scrub-approach?)
Gary didn't look very big or heavy. Was he even heavy enough to break through the cliff's trees and bushes if he simply toppled or slipped?

 

[AppleSnail]

Just turning my mind back to a random comment made in the previous thread, about all the bushes on the escarpment where Gary went over. On the one hand, yes, they'd obscure your view of where the ground gives way but, on the other hand, someone mentioned you'd think they could also have caught his fall. Anyone who knows that spot reasonably well, or spots similar in nature, if a person veered off any kind of track close to a cliff and there were so many bushes, would you expect them to fall a full 30 metres?

Thanks Xantara, this has been on my mind as well. I've been reading this document often in the last few days. It seems to cover incidents which (IMO) have similar parameters.

http://m.injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/6/1/62.3.long

 

[aust amateur slueth]

One would also think that toppling off a cliff (after clambering through the scrub to reach the cliff) into trees and bushes that are, no doubt, very sturdy to be able to grow and survive in that rocky semi-vertical terrain, would make it even more likely that you would get hung up in trees or bushes. It doesn't look like a sheer drop where Gary was found.
Unless you didn't topple off, unless you were pushed, thrown, or took a running jump (would that even be possible considering the scrub-approach?)
Gary didn't look very big or heavy. Was he even heavy enough to break through the cliff's trees and bushes if he simply toppled or slipped?

If the fall was accidental or if pushed wouldn't a person likely scream? in such a quiet area a scream would be heard, sounds out there can echo a lot.

 

[H A L 9 0 0 0]

AppleSnail that's interesting (and somewhat disturbing). If people can survive falling in excess of 40 meters and landing on a car bonnet, it makes me think a person could probably also survive a 25-30mtr fall if the impact was broken by some object with a bit of give in it (like tree branches).

From what I gleaned from the study, landing on an object which causes deceleration on impact is key to surviving a fall.

 

[FigTree]

If the fall was accidental or if pushed wouldn't a person likely scream? in such a quiet area a scream would be heard, sounds out there can echo a lot.

That has concerned me too - I guess we still wait for some information via msm about the phone and calls made (if they do release details) and times, but there has been no sound such as a scream reported. And sound does carry there.

 

[FigTree]

Is this pic of the Aus native male lyrebird Figtree?
Or the Indian Peacock?

Sorry, just interrupting sleuthing for this quick message
Its an Indian Peacock (is that what they're called)
Our Lyre Birds are small and greyish/brownish with very strong claws and legs, and they're very fast and blend into the scrub amazingly.

Resume normal transmission...

 

[mumkinton]

http://www.thecrag.com/climbing/australia/blue-mountains/sublime-point/area/321306516

I have been trying to find some good photos of the face of Sweet Dreams. I came across the crag a climbing website. They have some useful photos and comment about the Sublime Point car park after midnight. It also shows the tracks going to the edge.

 

[AppleSnail]

AppleSnail that's interesting (and somewhat disturbing). If people can survive falling in excess of 40 meters and landing on a car bonnet, it makes me think a person could probably also survive a 25-30mtr fall if the impact was broken by some object with a bit of give in it (like tree branches).

From what I gleaned from the study, landing on an object which causes deceleration on impact is key to surviving a fall.

HAL9000 - I agree with you completely - the implications are extremely distressing, which is why (and I'm sure you'll agree) it's important to state that we don't know how the case studies were selected, and the author(s) may have found a bias to survived falls necessary to make their point (after all, the reason for the study was to highlight how injury might be prevented).

Therefore, the implication might be that people can survive a 25-30 metre fall into decelerating materials, but usually don't. This study doesn't have to be taken at face value, and an amount of personal interpretation is necessary.

 

[SouthAussie]

If the fall was accidental or if pushed wouldn't a person likely scream? in such a quiet area a scream would be heard, sounds out there can echo a lot.

One would think so. Unless the person was no longer conscious.

Strange that no-one heard a scream or yell. It was a cold winter's Monday night, not typically a night for young ones to be out yelling and mucking about. You'd think someone would remember if they heard a scream or yell, especially with all the publicity this case was given right from the get-go.

 

[fruity]

What I don't get is if he was driven to Sublime Point for some kind of shady drug deal/pick up, why wouldn't any package just be handed over directly? I just can't really see much sense in retrieving something from a dangerous cliff face when it could be handed over in person (unless he was stashing something to come back for later). Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me trying to locate something in an obscure location like that in the dark either.

But if it turns out there was something going on in the spectrum of criminal activity it makes me think again of that statement about loving him ''unconditionally''.

As always, just my opinion.

Good points. I'm clueless when it come to knowing how drug deals work.

 

[fruity]

AppleSnail that's interesting (and somewhat disturbing). If people can survive falling in excess of 40 meters and landing on a car bonnet, it makes me think a person could probably also survive a 25-30mtr fall if the impact was broken by some object with a bit of give in it (like tree branches).

From what I gleaned from the study, landing on an object which causes deceleration on impact is key to surviving a fall.

There's a possibility someone might survive a 40m fall but it is unlikely. Just last week a man fell down a five metre cliff in Qld and police said he was lucky to survive it.

 

[SouthAussie]

This picture shows detectives in the area where Gary was found. Maybe it is the angle of the photo, but there just seems to be so many trees and bushes, so many places for a fall or slip to be broken.

Lady Luck evidently wasn't with Gary that night.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-...trieve-body-spotted-in-blue-mountains/4930584

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/gary-tweddles-body-found-police-believe-20130902-2t0vl.html

 

[Humdinger]

A police officer at the scene said a striped shirt found near the body matched the description of the one Mr Tweddle was wearing on the night he went missing.
This is a quote from the bottom article posted by SA.

I'm interested in the wording that the shirt was found near him...

I was also curious about the location of his phone, but this same article says that nothing else was found with him.

I'm only half way through thread 1 and keeping up here, so I've still got a bit to go to be fully up to speed. But I tend to agree with the death by misadventure. We all make poor decisions at times and alcohol exacerbates that!

I've got a lot of other opinions, but I'll wait till I get through more of the previous threads.

I'm still curious about the lack of info given by police and why the bloody hell he left the road?? It sure is one heck of a mystery!!! So many questions that I'm sure we'll never get answers to!

 

[H A L 9 0 0 0]

If the fall was accidental or if pushed wouldn't a person likely scream? in such a quiet area a scream would be heard, sounds out there can echo a lot.

Between 1am - 3am it's also possible that anyone within earshot was fast asleep on a Tuesday morning.

By the way, I think those peacocks roaming around also have a human-like shriek from memory, so maybe people up there are a bit desensitized to scream-like noises (please correct me if I'm mistaken locals). Not sure if there are koalas in the Leura area, but where I live the female koalas' have an uncannily human-like scream, which you just kind of ignore after living around them for a while.

It's also possible that when entering into a fall, a person could be too stunned or surprised to get a noise out in my opinion.

Previous comments aside, if loud yelling/screaming is actually an involuntary action and nearby locals were awake at the time (sitting quietly reading or similar) there can really only be two possibilities in my view. Either not conscious at the time of the fall (which suggests others were present), or the fall didn't come as a surprise.

Edit to add:- it would be really unlucky, but I suppose it could also be quite possible to be standing near a sheer cliff and simply pass out /faint/ or go into a fit (epileptic/narcoleptic).

 

[Lexis]

A police officer at the scene said a striped shirt found near the body matched the description of the one Mr Tweddle was wearing on the night he went missing.
This is a quote from the bottom article posted by SA.

I'm interested in the wording that the shirt was found near him...

I was also curious about the location of his phone, but this same article says that nothing else was found with him.

I'm only half way through thread 1 and keeping up here, so I've still got a bit to go to be fully up to speed. But I tend to agree with the death by misadventure. We all make poor decisions at times and alcohol exacerbates that!

I've got a lot of other opinions, but I'll wait till I get through more of the previous threads.

I'm still curious about the lack of info given by police and why the bloody hell he left the road?? It sure is one heck of a mystery!!! So many questions that I'm sure we'll never get answers to!

Hi Humdinger

There were mixed reports about Gary's shirt at the scene. One report said it was found near him, the other said it was tattered on him. The reporting of it as striped didn't match the earliest report of the shirt being red and light coloured check. Subsequent reports said it was pink, purple and pink. Great variation also with the trousers which were variously grey, blue, black jeans.

I don't think there are any reports about Gary's phone having been found but you never know, maybe they found it and haven't reported it.

 

[FigTree]

There are some photos on the Blue Mountains Police Rescue Operation Facebook page which show the recovery.

Police Recovery Operation

It also shows the terrain is a little more rocky and sparse of trees than some other photos.
I think one is getting the stretcher ready to be lowered down the cliff face.

 

[drsleuth]

I wonder if Gary took any type of synthetic drugs???

I'm a Emergency Nurse & have seen first hand some of the most strangest behaviour & super human strength after taking synthetic drugs. Very paranoid etc & psychosis etc

 

[Estelle]

http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment...nd-alone-before-his-death-20130916-2tv6k.html

IMO I have started to think that Gary could have paid the drug dealers the money but was not given the drugs or he could not find them where they said they were hidden - possibly they claimed they had hidden them under those bins which he overturned. So he called them again after the 17-minute phone call to his colleagues telling them he could not find them so they came back, decided to rob and assault him and he died. The drug dealers then decided, being locals, that they would toss his body over the cliff to look as if he had fallen off accidentally or he committed suicide. There could be DNA from these perpetrators on his body so the police would find this out.

But another theory could be that Gary was also the victim of this sort of incident:

http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment...nd-alone-before-his-death-20130916-2tv6k.html

I just cannot imagine that any sobre person would go to the area Gary went to of his own accord unless by foul play or he was seriously affected by the drugs he was given and had a cardiac arrest as this guy did which caused his fall.

Another thing which has crossed my mind is who supplied Gary with the drug he supposedly took at the restaurant and were these the same people whom Gary was in contact with at midnight?