Exactly right. The police would not want to add to their trauma or the fear in the community. That does not mean he didn't have a weapon but I don't believe the police would have released a tape showing this (for the reasons you and I have outlined).
GUILTY Australia - Jill Meagher, 29, Melbourne, 22 Sep 2012 #4
- Thread starter Salem
- Start date
- Status
Exactly right. The police would not want to add to their trauma or the fear in the community. That does not mean he didn't have a weapon but I don't believe the police would have released a tape showing this (for the reasons you and I have outlined).
GutFeeling!
Verified Expert
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2011
- Messages
- 1,347
- Reaction score
- 0
:welcome:
I can't remember reading in MSM that she followed him, do you have a link to that story?
Referring to the bolded part: That imo is another reason why I don't think a weapon was used in the footage. If you are being forced by someone with a gun or knife - they don't walk ahead and point it back at you. He would have walked behind her or even next to her, but not ahead - it would be too obvious because you would have to continually display it rather than let the victim "feel" it from the side or behind.
Thanks for the reminder on why I don't wear heels now too lol
in relation to a few comments made. Im pretty sure, (local residents advised) that police helicopters (i think two)were circling coburg on the wednesday .
His house isnt sealed off so not a crime scene. Wasnt it reported/rumoured that partner is still living there.
there was a google image of the home in the early days of this thread, located at the front of property was a ute and i think 4wd. I did post a while ago that I had seen most definitely that ute been towed away down Sydney Road, just before Bell Street. It was either coincidence that this was the same car parked in front of the property or it was his vehicle. Do we know for sure what he drove. Has this been confirmed anywhere. Otherwise i am off the mark with this.
not sure if i can say this, but did anyone notice the facebook pic he had of himself, there was a brown stick type object(to me looked like a knife handle) sticking out from his left side of jeans. I definitely dont think they were sunglass arms(whatever they are called),
what on earth could it have been.
His house isnt sealed off so not a crime scene. Wasnt it reported/rumoured that partner is still living there.
there was a google image of the home in the early days of this thread, located at the front of property was a ute and i think 4wd. I did post a while ago that I had seen most definitely that ute been towed away down Sydney Road, just before Bell Street. It was either coincidence that this was the same car parked in front of the property or it was his vehicle. Do we know for sure what he drove. Has this been confirmed anywhere. Otherwise i am off the mark with this.
not sure if i can say this, but did anyone notice the facebook pic he had of himself, there was a brown stick type object(to me looked like a knife handle) sticking out from his left side of jeans. I definitely dont think they were sunglass arms(whatever they are called),
what on earth could it have been.
"Another point, just generally, not at you Doc, in Australia we don't have 'felony', it is an 'indictable offence'."
Come on, Legally Brunette, it's really not important. AB has been accused of felonies + indictable offences = semantics.
I would like to just post as a person not a "recognised" professional or someone with "special knowledge". Believe me, however, I have spent considerable time with offenders including men like AB appears to be (and worse) and they aren't all found on Auslii. My partner has forbidden me from ever entering a prison again he was so afraid for me! Facing someone like AB in a cold, echoing room, alone, with the buzzer where you can't reach it, well, I guess you learn a different set of definitions, mainly based on commonsense, instinct and past experience.
Come on, Legally Brunette, it's really not important. AB has been accused of felonies + indictable offences = semantics.
I would like to just post as a person not a "recognised" professional or someone with "special knowledge". Believe me, however, I have spent considerable time with offenders including men like AB appears to be (and worse) and they aren't all found on Auslii. My partner has forbidden me from ever entering a prison again he was so afraid for me! Facing someone like AB in a cold, echoing room, alone, with the buzzer where you can't reach it, well, I guess you learn a different set of definitions, mainly based on commonsense, instinct and past experience.
Can forensics determine her blood alcohol content. To determine whether she was tipsy/drunk to a degree, as many comments made on thread speak of altered sense of reasoning and so fourth from alcohol consumption. Reason im saying is, if she had had a few to many, wouldnt friends have just escorted her home without asking her IF she wanted to be walked home. Maybe her awkward walk on cctv was from legs giving way from fear. You know that feeling you can get when you are overwhelmed and become anxious and legs turn to jelly. Just a thought
GutFeeling!
Verified Expert
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2011
- Messages
- 1,347
- Reaction score
- 0
BBM Yes he was living with his partner
LegallyBrunette
New Member
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2012
- Messages
- 1,777
- Reaction score
- 4
It could be sunnies, doesn't look like something large and is curved like 'temples' (the arms on glasses). You can see a reflection in the window behind him of a woman taking the photo.
She does look back behind her in the last frame that I can see - so maybe she did buy the story that she was being followed & that he was protecting her. It's horrible I know but if he established some kind of trust with the victim then perhaps she followed him into Hope Street and he overpowered her there. And it was easy because her guard was down & she wasn't expecting it?
My Pc is not that great, as i have lines running down screens, so may be off, but his pants seem to sit very flat where that object is hanging from. I would have thought some sort of buldge would be evident from the glasses.
And it doesnt look to be coming out of the jean pocket either. Looks to be from inside his jeans, very strange
LegallyBrunette
New Member
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2012
- Messages
- 1,777
- Reaction score
- 4
Had another look and can't really tell, whatever it is may be sticking out of the little coin pocket that some jeans have.
DrWatson
Verified Thoracic and Vascular Surgeon
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2012
- Messages
- 1,390
- Reaction score
- 9
May I just say, at the risk of sounding like a bit of a wet blanket, that there seems to be an increasing amount of guesswork being posted.....
Speculation and guesswork are somewhat counterproductive. Logic and deduction based on facts or at least information that has been verified would seem to be more helpful.
Now I know I've posted my own theories as to what may have happened, but they were based pretty much on what we know and what was on the CCTV. <modsnip>
But all this talk of guns, knives, etc I think is getting into the realms of the fanciful. As others have posted, I really don't think the police would have released the CCTV footage if it showed Jill being held at gunpoint, and I am sure she would not have walked in his direction if he was threatening her with a knife. That would NOT be a natural thing to do. As I said - to threaten somebody with a knife, you have to be right with them within striking distance.
I've also had another look at the picture from the Facebook page (yup, it seems many of us grabbed a copy while we could) and while I'm not sure just what that little brown object actually is, I'd put my house on the fact that it is NOT a knife...
OK - I'll shut up and go to bed. Early start in the morning :seeya:
Speculation and guesswork are somewhat counterproductive. Logic and deduction based on facts or at least information that has been verified would seem to be more helpful.
Now I know I've posted my own theories as to what may have happened, but they were based pretty much on what we know and what was on the CCTV. <modsnip>
But all this talk of guns, knives, etc I think is getting into the realms of the fanciful. As others have posted, I really don't think the police would have released the CCTV footage if it showed Jill being held at gunpoint, and I am sure she would not have walked in his direction if he was threatening her with a knife. That would NOT be a natural thing to do. As I said - to threaten somebody with a knife, you have to be right with them within striking distance.
I've also had another look at the picture from the Facebook page (yup, it seems many of us grabbed a copy while we could) and while I'm not sure just what that little brown object actually is, I'd put my house on the fact that it is NOT a knife...
OK - I'll shut up and go to bed. Early start in the morning :seeya:
I agree with you. As do many posters. But something else is going on here. Something like catharsis. The thing about this case is its apparent randomness. It has left many of us thinking "there but for the Grace of God, go I". And I think many people are trying to work through in their own minds "what would make me go with this guy if I was in that position. And a gun or a weapon of some kind is one thing that might. And it might be a case that we are seeing unicorns where there are only horses, but I still think it is important that people work through these issues. Just my opinion though
On a slightly different note, the timing to me is still slightly odd.
I know according to the charge sheet the rape/murder occurred in Brunswick.
If we know Jill's convo with her brother lasted from 1.43 to 1.45, the alleged perp must have grabbed her 1.45am at the very earliest.
I google mapped the distance from hope street to AB's house and it said 8 minutes.
For a car to pull up outside his house at 2am (supposing it was him inside) that leaves a window of 7 minutes to drag her into the lane way and into his car and to commit those acts.
I have no idea if that is a realistic time frame but it can't have been a drawn out affair if the above is the case?
Alternately could have been someone else in the car or the witness could have got the time wrong.
I know according to the charge sheet the rape/murder occurred in Brunswick.
If we know Jill's convo with her brother lasted from 1.43 to 1.45, the alleged perp must have grabbed her 1.45am at the very earliest.
I google mapped the distance from hope street to AB's house and it said 8 minutes.
For a car to pull up outside his house at 2am (supposing it was him inside) that leaves a window of 7 minutes to drag her into the lane way and into his car and to commit those acts.
I have no idea if that is a realistic time frame but it can't have been a drawn out affair if the above is the case?
Alternately could have been someone else in the car or the witness could have got the time wrong.
LegallyBrunette
New Member
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2012
- Messages
- 1,777
- Reaction score
- 4
We are all intelligent adults (hopefully
] and wouldn't be here if we just wanted to read and accept what is in MSM. No point being here if we can't discuss what isn't making sense to us individually. Might as well go and read some of the rubbish on FB, Twitter and so on.
LegallyBrunette
New Member
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2012
- Messages
- 1,777
- Reaction score
- 4
I think the reports of cars outside his house said 'about or around' 2am? We've been told the time stamp on cctv is accurate and phone records show call time.
possumheart
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2012
- Messages
- 4,028
- Reaction score
- 211
I have looked closely at the body language. He moves as if it is a weapon. It could have been a felafel but he uses it in an authoritative way moo
LegallyBrunette
New Member
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2012
- Messages
- 1,777
- Reaction score
- 4
It looked as if he was beckoning her to come on, a few frames earlier where they're in front of the right hand window and then start to walk he has his right arm sort of around her briefly as you would if trying to get the person to 'move along'. Like Paul Keating did to the Queen that time, if you remember the footage.
:what:Y
I just don't know how we can find out what really went on in those final minutes without the details being made public. But I can imagine I might follow someone in this situation if I thought they were a cop ...
I just don't know how we can find out what really went on in those final minutes without the details being made public. But I can imagine I might follow someone in this situation if I thought they were a cop ...
possumheart
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2012
- Messages
- 4,028
- Reaction score
- 211
Would it be fair to reason that the boutique had the best illumination to stop and pause and be able to see your phone display and make a call? Therefore it was as a lightbulb to a moth?
LegallyBrunette
New Member
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2012
- Messages
- 1,777
- Reaction score
- 4
Notice in FB pic he doesn't seem to be wearing any rings, in photo taken in the back of police car he is, including what looks like a wedding ring. People who knew him described him as 'average Joe', always smiling. Someone on here said that if he had used the 'you're being followed' story he might have showed her the wedding ring as if to say, I'm a married man myself, you can trust me.
- Status