Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020 #2

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Satchie said:
Just commenting that their disappearance coincided with the start of the pandemic.

A week earlier, Australia had issued advice for people over 70 about being at higher risk and needing to practise social distancing, being urged to stay at home and avoid non-essential travel: Coronavirus (COVID-19) advice for older people

Most people I know over 70 were deeply interested in news about the virus and these kinds of guidelines. Though I'm sure some were able to ignore it all, it now strikes me as a bit surprising they chose that time to go off camping together and be out of contact with the world for days.
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Maybe. But I know exactly where I was and what I was doing that weekend, and my memory is that Covid-19 was barely impinging on the minds of most of us. If I was planning a tryst I don't think Covid would have come into my thinking. Plus of course Victoria didn't have the fame/notoriety which it has now, re the virus.
 
Kemug said:
Maybe. But I know exactly where I was and what I was doing that weekend, and my memory is that Covid-19 was barely impinging on the minds of most of us. If I was planning a tryst I don't think Covid would have come into my thinking. Plus of course Victoria didn't have the fame/notoriety which it has now, re the virus.
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I don't think many of us were super-concerned (yet) about the virus in March. On 18th March our Premier in South Australia wasn't even considering a lockdown yet ... although 6 days later we closed our state borders.

In Victoria they declared a state of emergency on 16th March ... but no statewide travel restrictions, and no closing of their state borders.
Russell and Carol likely thought they were quite safe (virus-wise) going off camping together in a remote, less-populated area.

Victoria has declared an 'unprecedented' state of emergency. Here's what that means
 
Inspector Stamper says police have spoken to a number of people who live in or spend time in the bushland around the Wonnangatta Valley, including some with “concerning and anti-social habits”.

“The fire is a big part of what makes us concerned about this incident.”

There are plenty of people in the High Country who will tell you Russell and Carol would be alive if not for that drone.
As Roxanne, the holiday-house owner in Mansfield puts it, there are lots of people worried that Russell accidentally saw something he wasn’t meant to while flying the drone overhead.

“We know the community has those concerns,” Inspector Stamper says.

After months of searching and investigating the disappearances, what Inspector Stamper has been left with is a long list of things that haven’t been found, including Russell’s phone and drone, any drug crops, any hint that this was a staged disappearance, any suspect or any item at all connected to Russell or Carol.

And it is all that missing information along with the burnt-out tent, that leads Inspector Stamper to suspect foul play.

Four people have gone missing within a 60km radius in the past year. Their fate remains a mystery
(Not a new article, just a refresher ... along with some great footage of the area)
 
SouthAussie said:
Inspector Stamper says police have spoken to a number of people who live in or spend time in the bushland around the Wonnangatta Valley, including some with “concerning and anti-social habits”.

“The fire is a big part of what makes us concerned about this incident.”

There are plenty of people in the High Country who will tell you Russell and Carol would be alive if not for that drone.
As Roxanne, the holiday-house owner in Mansfield puts it, there are lots of people worried that Russell accidentally saw something he wasn’t meant to while flying the drone overhead.

“We know the community has those concerns,” Inspector Stamper says.

After months of searching and investigating the disappearances, what Inspector Stamper has been left with is a long list of things that haven’t been found, including Russell’s phone and drone, any drug crops, any hint that this was a staged disappearance, any suspect or any item at all connected to Russell or Carol.

And it is all that missing information along with the burnt-out tent, that leads Inspector Stamper to suspect foul play.

Four people have gone missing within a 60km radius in the past year. Their fate remains a mystery
(Not a new article, just a refresher ... along with some great footage of the area)
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for posting the article and letting us know about the footage. Definitely more rural than I thought. A good place to commit murder/suicide IMO. That was the feeling I got the entire time I viewed the article/clips. Certainly just my opinion and I hope I am wrong and this was just some tragic accident.
 
SouthAussie said:
Inspector Stamper says police have spoken to a number of people who live in or spend time in the bushland around the Wonnangatta Valley, including some with “concerning and anti-social habits”.

“The fire is a big part of what makes us concerned about this incident.”

There are plenty of people in the High Country who will tell you Russell and Carol would be alive if not for that drone.
As Roxanne, the holiday-house owner in Mansfield puts it, there are lots of people worried that Russell accidentally saw something he wasn’t meant to while flying the drone overhead.

“We know the community has those concerns,” Inspector Stamper says.

After months of searching and investigating the disappearances, what Inspector Stamper has been left with is a long list of things that haven’t been found, including Russell’s phone and drone, any drug crops, any hint that this was a staged disappearance, any suspect or any item at all connected to Russell or Carol.

And it is all that missing information along with the burnt-out tent, that leads Inspector Stamper to suspect foul play.

Four people have gone missing within a 60km radius in the past year. Their fate remains a mystery
(Not a new article, just a refresher ... along with some great footage of the area)
Click to expand...

So they finally came out and said it! I’ve had the feeling for the longest that it had to do with that drone. And was never convinced the fire was an accident.
IMO, this is now, very unfortunately, a homicide investigation.
 
neesaki said:
So they finally came out and said it! I’ve had the feeling for the longest that it had to do with that drone. And was never convinced the fire was an accident.
IMO, this is now, very unfortunately, a homicide investigation.
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Yes, I think it could well be a double homicide. People don't get to the age of Russell and Carol and decide to kill each other. Especially not when they have productive lives, a circle of friends, grandchildren, etc. And they were each healthy enough to go on multiple camping trips together.


"At the end of February, he and Carol had travelled through the High Country, stopping at a camping spot called Pikes Flat, about 60km from the Wonnangatta Valley."

"On the night of March 20, while Russell and Carol were camping in the Wonnangatta Valley, Russell spoke to three or four club members including Robbie."
 
SouthAussie said:
Yes, I think it could well be a double homicide. People don't get to the age of Russell and Carol and decide to kill each other. Especially not when they have productive lives, a circle of friends, grandchildren, etc. And they were each healthy enough to go on multiple camping trips together.


"At the end of February, he and Carol had travelled through the High Country, stopping at a camping spot called Pikes Flat, about 60km from the Wonnangatta Valley."

"On the night of March 20, while Russell and Carol were camping in the Wonnangatta Valley, Russell spoke to three or four club members including Robbie."
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You must not have come across this story...

Deceased/Not Found - OH - Roberta 'Bobby' Snider, 70, Hartville, 4 Jan 2018 *ARREST*

Married 53 years. Had a loving family...Sons who lived nearby, etc.

From this article...
The Repository

"Phillip told an undercover officer he smashed Roberta Snider (his wife of 53 years) in the forehead with a hammer before stuffing blood-splattered pillows and other crime scene evidence in plastic containers and discarding them in trash bins."

I'm certainly not suggesting that this happened here... Only wanted to point out that evil is possible...even among 'loving' reputable senior citizens with grandkids.
 
Detectivediva said:
You must not have come across this story...

Deceased/Not Found - OH - Roberta 'Bobby' Snider, 70, Hartville, 4 Jan 2018 *ARREST*

Married 53 years. Had a loving family...Sons who lived nearby, etc.

From this article...
The Repository

"Phillip told an undercover officer he smashed Roberta Snider (his wife of 53 years) in the forehead with a hammer before stuffing blood-splattered pillows and other crime scene evidence in plastic containers and discarding them in trash bins."

I'm certainly not suggesting that this happened here... Only wanted to point out that evil is possible...even among 'loving' reputable senior citizens with grandkids.
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Yes, bad things can happen at all ages. But I personally don't see that in this case. These two are lovers, not husband and wife. Separate residences, (mostly) separate lives. And this has worked well for them for many years, despite their one time dream of perhaps disrupting others' lives by more officially getting together.

Jealous wife maybe? One who may be scared of splitting assets and fending for herself?
 
IMO, if this was murder, the murderer(s) really knew what he/she was doing: calm, cold-blooded, well-planned in terms of leaving no trace of evidence and creating ambiguity for police about what happened.

For example, the person would have had to contemplate what was the best thing to do with the tent: leave it with possible evidence, take it and spark concern about why it was missing, or burn it and hope police thought it was an accident. IMO, people who've just killed two people don't usually have the presence of mind to think these things through.
 
Satchie said:
IMO, if this was murder, the murderer(s) really knew what he/she was doing: calm, cold-blooded, well-planned in terms of leaving no trace of evidence and creating ambiguity for police about what happened.

For example, the person would have had to contemplate what was the best thing to do with the tent: leave it with possible evidence, take it and spark concern about why it was missing, or burn it and hope police thought it was an accident. IMO, people who've just killed two people don't usually have the presence of mind to think these things through.
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But someone who may have been called to help would have plenty of time on that long drive to think things through, and plan.
 
Kemug said:
But someone who may have been called to help would have plenty of time on that long drive to think things through, and plan.
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I don't think there was a mobile signal in that area, was there? I think if anyone was called, any perp would have had to drive quite a way to get a mobile signal.

And then, if they are a 'known' person they could have been leaving a trackable mobile footprint for the police to follow - one that would put them in the vicinity at the time. Unless they had the smarts to leave their mobile phone at home, or disconnect it from all GPS as well as turn it off.
 
Satchie said:
IMO, if this was murder, the murderer(s) really knew what he/she was doing: calm, cold-blooded, well-planned in terms of leaving no trace of evidence and creating ambiguity for police about what happened.

For example, the person would have had to contemplate what was the best thing to do with the tent: leave it with possible evidence, take it and spark concern about why it was missing, or burn it and hope police thought it was an accident. IMO, people who've just killed two people don't usually have the presence of mind to think these things through.
Click to expand...
Yes, you point out some good and curious aspects of this case. What's also interesting is there was no effort to remove identifying information about who the campers were at the burnt out campsite; personal items belonging to both Russell and Carol were found in their truck--seemingly untouched, and the vehicle ownership was also easily traced back to Russell. Apparently, the total destruction of the tent and it's contents inside, along with items around the tent area--chairs, table, etc...was the focused extent of the damage--the portable shower/toilet seems to appear undamaged. IMO, the tent ambush theory (RH and CC were attacked while sleeping) seems problematic...since the investigators apparently didn't find blood evidence anywhere around the campsite, unless RH and CC were simply woken up and led away unharmed. The bonfire appearance of the fire seems strange to me. It looks like a well contained and controlled fire--why burn up the camp chairs and table? Did the killer leave their dna on the chairs and table after sharing a meal with RH and CC..? I find the fact that Carol had recently closed on a new home also of interest since buying and moving into a new home usually indicates some major life changes. The heart and skin health problems of RH also seem important to this case, since apparently he was taking several different medications and wasn't able to walk a long distance...making it unlikely that he went by foot searching for his lost drone. I agree with you, the likelihood that a killer could plan perfectly a double murder, thinking to stage the scene with confusing evidence while leaving no forensic evidence seems beyond reasonable to me too.
 
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