Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #61

[JayWill]

Both children were reported wearing pull ups

Even the five year old? Unusual for a girl. But even so, three days of pj changes is not much.

 

[Random-me]

I have always thought that was a bit odd, too. Not totally implausible, however if anything remotely distressing has ever happened to one of my kids and my husband isn't at home, the first thing I do is urgently try and call him to tell him that such-and-such has happened to come home ASAP!

see, for me, if I thought my husband would be home any time and my mother was there at the house, I would search as much as I could (even using the car) whilst waiting for him. He was expected within a few minutes, so it could be assumed she would see him up (the FF) the road as she drove up searching

*I wouldn't call him if I thought he'd be back any minute

 

[SLouTh]

I also heard on the pod cast she didn’t take her phone with her when she went on that drive. Maybe so she didn’t get tracked? Why didn’t she mention it on the day?

Can you remember which podcast and possibly what episode this was please??

 

[Blues Clues]

Super sorry if this has been covered already. Got a lot of catching up to do.
Do we have a confirmed source for the bolded?
If this is true, then why in all that is bloomin' does someone who only arrived the night before need to use the washing machine? Didn't arrive with clean clothes? No spares? Someone wet the bed? Can't do a regular soak and hand wash in the laundry basin?

She was complaining about how long it was taking for the machine to be repaired because her mother's (FGM's) washing was piling up.

"He had visited the house — it was her mum’s house — to try to fix the washing machine two days earlier, on September 9, 2014. William had arrived with his foster parents and his sister at 9pm on the 11th. His foster mum made her call after noticing the washing piling up. She didn’t speak to Spedding directly, only to his answering machine. She asked him when he was coming back to fix her mum’s machine."

William Tyrrell case fosters pain and frustration (theaustralian.com.au)

 

[Doesitmakesense]

On the other hand if FM is not involved, then what the heck is LE doing? I can't believe any LE would be that incompetent and risk litigation etc.

So yeah, stumped and baffled by it.

If the FFC is not as involved as what the LE is putting out, I think a good way to create discord between a husband and wife would be to "blame" the more innocent party. For example just say the pic time is not right, that means MFC could have taken William on his trip into town. Publicly namimg her may, when LE really thinks it's him may cause them to discuss what's happening

 

[JayWill]

She was complaining about how long it was taking for the machine to be repaired because her mother's (FGM's) washing was piling up.

"He had visited the house — it was her mum’s house — to try to fix the washing machine two days earlier, on September 9, 2014. William had arrived with his foster parents and his sister at 9pm on the 11th. His foster mum made her call after noticing the washing piling up. She didn’t speak to Spedding directly, only to his answering machine. She asked him when he was coming back to fix her mum’s machine."

William Tyrrell case fosters pain and frustration (theaustralian.com.au)

I can tell you from experience old ladies, living alone to not generate too much washing.

 

[SLouTh]

Then years later (already TWO years ago) at the inquest (is that right?), the FFC mentions driving (?) to the riding school. That's a good 8 minutes (getting into car, driving and back, getting out) to just even go somewhere for a brief visit with no kind of exhaustive search. Were there witnesses that support this detail?

The actual video mentioning the drive was done a few days after William went missing.... it was only released by the Coroner at the time of the inquest..... (it was part of FM's "video statement" done by the Police at Benaroon Drive)

That is my understanding of the situation.
IMO

 

[Awakening]

Imagine all the people who may know things in *this* case, who may not know they know things, simply due to the fact that they don't know the people they may have potentially seen wherever, doing whatever, are anonymous, both in appearance and name. jmo.

The suppression of identity perplexes me. I understand about the legalities around foster care.

But once the agency and bio family gave their permission for anonymity to be wavered, I'm unsure why it had to continue as it does seem to be a bit of a hindrance to the case.

I understand the FF may want to protect their FD, but that seems to be at the expense of WT.

If WT was abducted, then I've never heard of a case where a kidnapper has come back to also take a sibling.

If FPs were worried about FD being subjected to media attention, wouldn't the FD still be protected from being identified under the fostering legislation? FACS and LE could have surely told the media to back off, and I can't see the public supporting the media taking photos of FD on the way to school.

At the very least, I would have expected that by year 3 of WT missing, that at least the FPs faces could have been released, even with their names suppressed.

I mean I could have come across these people in my life, but I'd never know because I don't know what they look like.

Seeing photos of not just WT, but FM & FF could of helped jog peoples memories and helped find WT with no real threat or inconvenience to the sister IMO.

I could understand it more if sister was 12 or older at the time. A teen is much more self conscious than a younger child. I could understand a teen being self conscious about being identified as "WTs sister" or as a "foster child", but a 6 year old wouldn't care?

 

[vatzjr]

Yes what you have missed is that the evidence at the inquest where FFC explains that she drove to the riding school was a video which was played to the court. The video was a police walk through done with the FFC 6 days after William's disappearance.

It wasn't until the inquest that large amounts of evidence obtained during the investigation became public.

Thank you. How does the police walk figure into my question, though?

According to the 000 call, FFC took 15 - 20 minutes to search for WT before calling and only mentioned walking up and down Benaroon Road. It would seem getting in a vehicle and taking at least eight to ten minutes to go somewhere very specific and then coming immediately back is a rather large omission from her call. (On top of it all, she doesn't call the MFC despite being alarmed enough to jump in the car and go to the Riding Place). Am I missing something about this 000 call?

 

[Doesitmakesense]

I cannot fathom why FFC did not call MFC immediately after she realised William was missing. She didn't know until the text message was seen that he was on his way back.
A text message saying he was five minutes away would not have stopped me from calling him, I would have been asking him to look for William on his drive back.

If one of my kids disappeared from the garden, I could easily see myself lookimg all around the house, up down the street etc for a good 20-30 mins before I call to informs others or ask for help.

 

[Trmtrm2]

according to the email info earlier in the thread, she said she may have to give up (seems to be regarding the adoption), not give him up.

Its so strange she is even saying this wouldn't the birth mother stop the adoption, did FM hav any rights to go forward with the adoption, what would happen with the sisters adoption would she hav stopped that because of WT behaviour or would she plan to adopt sister or was that what she was trying to find out with all thies emails "can she adop one with out the other without asking that direct question"
So basically she is saying if WT visits the birth mother she will not go forward with the adoption, basically I don't think she can if he is visiting his birth mother, its obvious she wants WT to stop visits with birth mother so she can go forward with adoption, behaviour or no behaviour its obvious as long as WT is having visits with his birth mother the FM can't go forward with adoption, whats the behaviour got to do with adoption, whats the different if she doesn't go through with the adoption she will still be foster parent she will still hav to put up with the behaviour of him seeing his birth mother and being emotional after, it is making no sense to me
-WT is a foster child
-its normal for foster children to hav emotional responses after seeing the birth family
-FM won't go ahead with adoption if he is seeing birth family and having emotional response
-FM wants to stop birth family visits? As the birth family were visiting every 2 weeks until salvos took over and it was changed to FM not wanting to see the birth family so salvos had to do the child swap over and this can now only happen once ever 2 months,
-i don't see how she could be in any prosses to adopt a child who sees his mother and is upset for days after he sees his mother, thats why im so curious about the sister is it a possibility that the BM has lost the right to make a decision on her potential adoption but still has a right to stop WT future adoption, is it a situation that department/agency has a first priority to keep siblings placed together and that is what is standing in the way of adoption of the sister, would FM would hav to be also adopting WT but the birth mother is in the picture making it impossible, is FM trying to remove the birth mother visits with the behaviour aspect and that didn't work now she is left with WT and his birth mother having close relationship and that situation is stopping her from adoption with the sister, i guess only the agency/ department/ lawyers and foster family are the only ones that know what would need to happen to make the adopt happen, the kids are foster kids who hav family, the foster carers are doing a job caring for the children but it seems they hav motivation behind it all and that's the potential of future adoption or why would they be in the motions for adoption unless its what they are trying to do adopt thies children,

I wonder what happened in other foster familys when its young children and they see their biological family and call biological mum "mummy" what do they call their foster mother i would assume "mummy then the name of the person" how confusing if the FM is called mummy then start calling the BM "birth mummy" obvious something is not right and the FM is not doing the right thing by the child by calling his real mum birth mother the real mother is the mother and the FM is the carer for a period if time but in this case the carer is trying to become the real mother by an adopt process but threatening the agency to not adopt the child because its birth mother is on the scene

 

[Violet77]

Even the five year old? Unusual for a girl. But even so, three days of pj changes is not much.

Yep, as stated by the FFC they were both dressed in pull ups on the side of the road after the Maccas stop

 

[mmindymoo]

Thank you. How does the police walk figure into my question, though?

According to the 000 call, FFC took 15 - 20 minutes to search for WT before calling and only mentioned walking up and down Benaroon Road. It would seem getting in a vehicle and taking at least eight to ten minutes to go somewhere very specific is a rather large omission. (On top of it all, she doesn't call the MFC despite being alarmed enough to jump in the car and go to the Riding Place). Am I missing something about this 000 call?

It also interesting that the search site is Cobbs Road.. the exact opposite of the riding school (if I am interpreting Google maps correctly). A tactic?

 

[interested64]

Same

see, for me, if I thought my husband would be home any time and my mother was there at the house, I would search as much as I could (even using the car) whilst waiting for him. He was expected within a few minutes, so it could be assumed she would see him up (the FF) the road as she drove up searching

*I wouldn't call him if I thought he'd be back any minute

Same..I would call when real panic set in..but by then he was home..I don't think she actually thought the worst to start with..more like a wander .. o e thing that does bug me is if not down there why wouldn't you turn left as well...or maybe she just thought.. no couldn't have gone that far..my son was similar at that age...never think the worst happened until the 11th min and bingo there he was...also let's face it who thinks a pedo would be anywhere near that st...but alas time has proven that was a case with several in a few km

 

[agrid]

I've been listening to the 10 podcast and was surprised how genuine the FM sounded. I wonder if the cops are saying she is a POI to flush out someone else.

I'd like to know who, how and why the photo dates were changed. If it was because the the camera was set up to Perth/Singapore timezone it would have been corrected by exactly 2 hours, not 2 hours and a few minutes. Surely forensic analysis of light patterns would give an indication of the time +-2 hours. Sunrise was 6:00am.

 

[Zim]

Could 'new witness' be connected to FGM's Estate or will ?
Unhappy relative ?
Just asking....MOO

 

[interested64]

She was complaining about how long it was taking for the machine to be repaired because her mother's (FGM's) washing was piling up.

"He had visited the house — it was her mum’s house — to try to fix the washing machine two days earlier, on September 9, 2014. William had arrived with his foster parents and his sister at 9pm on the 11th. His foster mum made her call after noticing the washing piling up. She didn’t speak to Spedding directly, only to his answering machine. She asked him when he was coming back to fix her mum’s machine."

William Tyrrell case fosters pain and frustration (theaustralian.com.au)

Yes and the kids may have wet sheets etc

 

[Oona]

see, for me, if I thought my husband would be home any time and my mother was there at the house, I would search as much as I could (even using the car) whilst waiting for him. He was expected within a few minutes, so it could be assumed she would see him up (the FF) the road as she drove up searching

*I wouldn't call him if I thought he'd be back any minute

But she didn't know he would be back in 5 minutes until after she had looked at her phone....which was apparently after she had been searching (possibly even driving around searching in the FGM's car, but the timeline is sketchy about when that happened).
After Male Foster Parent returned he bolted off searching for William and Female Foster Parent continued searching and called 000.

 

[SLouTh]

Thank you. How does the police walk figure into my question, though?

According to the 000 call, FFC took 15 - 20 minutes to search for WT before calling and only mentioned walking up and down Benaroon Road. It would seem getting in a vehicle and taking at least eight to ten minutes to go somewhere very specific and then coming immediately back is a rather large omission from her call. (On top of it all, she doesn't call the MFC despite being alarmed enough to jump in the car and go to the Riding Place). Am I missing something about this 000 call?

It appears to be a discrepancy in the evidence..... and the timeline....

However we do not have access to the full evidence as only parts of it have been released by the Coroner.

See Thread 60 .... more posts about this....
Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #60

IMO

 

[JayWill]

I

t was being sold to a friend and the fosters were there to check it was all ok & she wasn't being ripped off

But it was under contract at that time. Too late to investigate if she was being ripped off. The time to do that was when offers were being made.