Babcock Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #3

[mimimic]

I would say most likely.

on cell phone shadow. But strange that the sun isn't hitting the bottom of the door at that angle.

 

[winter2017]

I don't know too much about crack cocaine, I know people that have been addicted to it. I said that MM was a crack addict when she met MS. Others say she used cocaine. She had no job when she met MS. Cocaine is very expensive, and crack is a cheaper version. Unless her bf had a good job and made a lot of money I dont' think he could afford to supply her with cocaine and it was crack cocaine. The area her sister s apt was in Oakville is called "crack central". Personally she did say she was addicted to cocaine but I think it was crack cocaine. I know people that have been addicted to crack and it messes people up a lot. IT would explain why she hooked up with MS, if she was a crack head and she met MS and he could supply her with drugs she would want to hook up with him.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Regarding Pedo:

I am an amateur dog trainer working in various dog disciplines (obedience, hunt tests, field trials and SCENT work).

I posted earlier about Pedo's body language and was trying to be delicate but now that we are actually talking about it here goes....

Pedo knows that something smells in that tarp. He is unsure, unhappy and looks to me as if he has been admonished. I figure he was sniffing the tarp and was told to leave it, and then was told to sit beside the thing he was told to leave so that DM could take a picture of Pedo with the rolled up tarp.

So Pedo knows something isn't right, then gets corrected and then gets put beside the thing that he just got corrected for sniffing creating the look you get in the picture. Worry, confusion a bit of fear but at the same time doing what his owner is asking of him.

MOO

I've done a lot of obedience (breeder background) and IMO you speak dog, you are dead on.

 

[Grey-St]

Hello everyone! I’ve been a long time reader, and this is my first post. There’s something I feel needs to be addressed regarding MM.

To the individual who felt it was appropriate to pass judgement on MM’s personal background, (I cannot find the quote at the moment, and I believe it may be in the previous thread), this is for you. If it is your opinion that MM had knowledge of this murder or others, you are entitled to that opinion as this is obviously a place for fair and honest discussion. What I do not think you’re entitled to, is to base that opinion on the fact that MM comes from a low income family, that her mother is a maid, that her sister lives in a bad area of oakville and that MM has done drugs in the past. This does not in any shape or form, make someone a criminal, or make someone complicit to murder. It’s in fact extremely discriminatory, inappropriate, and quite honestly ignorant. Maybe it’s just the social worker in me, but it is extremely unfair to pass judgement on someone based on these facts. It’s like saying someone is “guilty as charged” because they are black. It’s just plain wrong.

I hope I’m not the only one that shares this sentiment, and I hope we can all be more progressive and thoughtful with our opinions and comments going forward. Thanks!

 

[SnooperDuper]

I don't know too much about crack cocaine, I know people that have been addicted to it.

In the end, it is something you can recover from and MM did. Yes it is scary and I think it is one of the drugs that can profoundly affect people's behaviour but it seems that she was off the stuff once she was with MM in favour of marijuana.

She's working now and moving on from that. I think she was quite honest about what she knew and did all she could to discourage MS from getting involved in trouble. I feel she was honest in her testimony last time around and didn't know much.

 

[matou]

Hello everyone! I’ve been a long time reader, and this is my first post. There’s something I feel needs to be addressed regarding MM.

To the individual who felt it was appropriate to pass judgement on MM’s personal background, (I cannot find the quote at the moment, and I believe it may be in the previous thread), this is for you. If it is your opinion that MM had knowledge of this murder or others, you are entitled to that opinion as this is obviously a place for fair and honest discussion. What I do not think you’re entitled to, is to base that opinion on the fact that MM comes from a low income family, that her mother is a maid, that her sister lives in a bad area of oakville and that MM has done drugs in the past. This does not in any shape or form, make someone a criminal, or make someone complicit to murder. It’s in fact extremely discriminatory, inappropriate, and quite honestly ignorant. Maybe it’s just the social worker in me, but it is extremely unfair to pass judgement on someone based on these facts. It’s like saying someone is “guilty as charged” because they are black. It’s just plain wrong.

I hope I’m not the only one that shares this sentiment, and I hope we can all be more progressive and thoughtful with our opinions and comments going forward. Thanks!

Thanks Grey and welcome. I hope that MM will clarify some things r.e. the ipad and when she was promised the ipad by DM. When did she first see the ipad? Where she was on July3rd-4th and July 23rd, and when she communicated with Smich during that time. Was she living at the Maple Gate home during that time and when did she see Laura last?

 

[SnooperDuper]

To the individual who felt it was appropriate to pass judgement on MM’s personal background,

You have to give the girl credit: it sounds like she was in a real tough spot with the boyfriend before MS and she got herself out of that. She's the one that strikes me as always seeking the better path in this. She cleaned herself up and tried to encourage MS to stay out of trouble too. MS knew he had to hide things from her because she wouldn't tolerate what he was up to. She wasn't loyal to him and called off the relationship after the arrest. I see her as someone of fundamentally good character who went through some rough stuff. MOO.

 

[mimimic]

In the end, it is something you can recover from and MM did. Yes it is scary and I think it is one of the drugs that can profoundly affect people's behaviour but it seems that she was off the stuff once she was with MM in favour of marijuana.

She's working now and moving on from that. I think she was quite honest about what she knew and did all she could to discourage MS from getting involved in trouble.I feel she was honest in her testimony last time around and didn't know much.

I feel she was as honest as she could be without implicating herself.

 

[Errrr]

Hello everyone! I’ve been a long time reader, and this is my first post. There’s something I feel needs to be addressed regarding MM.

To the individual who felt it was appropriate to pass judgement on MM’s personal background, (I cannot find the quote at the moment, and I believe it may be in the previous thread), this is for you. If it is your opinion that MM had knowledge of this murder or others, you are entitled to that opinion as this is obviously a place for fair and honest discussion. What I do not think you’re entitled to, is to base that opinion on the fact that MM comes from a low income family, that her mother is a maid, that her sister lives in a bad area of oakville and that MM has done drugs in the past. This does not in any shape or form, make someone a criminal, or make someone complicit to murder. It’s in fact extremely discriminatory, inappropriate, and quite honestly ignorant. Maybe it’s just the social worker in me, but it is extremely unfair to pass judgement on someone based on these facts. It’s like saying someone is “guilty as charged” because they are black. It’s just plain wrong.

I hope I’m not the only one that shares this sentiment, and I hope we can all be more progressive and thoughtful with our opinions and comments going forward. Thanks!

That was post #439 from Friday. I think that person was using her background as a reason to discount MMs testimony. I don't think that person has been following these trials very closely because most people have found this girl to be the most forthcoming of the group. There is no reason to consider her hostile and a lot of evidence even points to her being sheltered from the crimes by the perpetrators. I do think people may speculate that her vulnerable background may explain why someone like her (nice) would have anything to do with someone so evil.

 

[winter2017]

Grey _ ST., I was repeating things she herself admitted. I did point out that the area her and MS hung out, her sister s that they posted the picture of the apt. and I know the area in Oakville and that people in Oakville would talk about the area all the time that it was where a lot of crack was. I said it about her family because a large population in Oakville are very well to do and extremely affluent and she said her family background. People talk about the background of many of the people involved in this case and about DM wealthy, etc,

 

[SnooperDuper]

People talk about the background of many of the people involved in this case and about DM wealthy, etc,

Well there is a difference between background and character. Just because MM came from a tough history doesn't mean she's of bad character...just like DM's dreamlike history of money to do anything he wanted doesn't make him of good character.

 

[Errrr]

Well there is a difference between background and character. Just because MM came from a tough history doesn't mean she's of bad character...just like DM's dreamlike history of money to do anything he wanted doesn't make him of good character.

That assumption explains how he got away with so much for so long. He got a pass and it made his friends feel safe from prosecution because of it.

 

[RezButt]

Well there is a difference between background and character. Just because MM came from a tough history doesn't mean she's of bad character...just like DM's dreamlike history of money to do anything he wanted doesn't make him of good character.

To quote ABro: ‘As sweet as Meneses appears at times, she also seems aimless and unmotivated. She has racked up an impressive number of bad decisions for someone so young.’

Let’s be honest here, all of the people involved in what happened in 2012 and 2013 are not the type any of us would want our kids hanging around.

 

[SnooperDuper]

That assumption explains how he got away with so much for so long. He got a pass and it made his friends feel safe from prosecution because of it.

Woman missing, suspected escort, last known contact a very wealthy man...

Ever think that LE didn't chase after LB because her last known contacts were all men with money?

 

[SnooperDuper]

To quote ABro: ‘As sweet as Meneses appears at times, she also seems aimless and unmotivated. She has racked up an impressive number of bad decisions for someone so young.’

Let’s be honest here, all of the people involved in what happened in 2012 and 2013 are not the type any of us would want our kids hanging around.

Well imagine starting from the position where moving from your current boyfriend to MS is actually a good move. Honestly, if that got her off drugs, it was a good thing.

Did she really make bad decisions or did she just have a lot of bad options to chose from? If you're addicted, how many people will reach out to you and honestly get you off your stuff? If you don't have high school because of the turmoil in your life, what kind of job options do you have?

In the end MM has moved forward, regardless. Good for her.

 

[MsSherlock]

Well imagine starting from the position where moving from your current boyfriend to MS is actually a good move. Honestly, if that got her off drugs, it was a good thing.

Did she really make bad decisions or did she just have a lot of bad options to chose from? If you're addicted, how many people will reach out to you and honestly get you off your stuff? If you don't have high school because of the turmoil in your life, what kind of job options do you have?

In the end MM has moved forward, regardless. Good for her.

IMHO, I think MM will be the one that does both of them in. I feel horrible for her that she has to face cross examination from DM. She's going to need every ounce of fortitude to get thru it. I've always been of the opinion that MM came clean- that MS had a need to brag/unload/confide to MM and unlike AM and DM's other friends who needed a box of kleenex on the stand during the TB trial, MM will be the one who's testimony will have a huge impact on the Jury. I have a lot of admiration for MM because I do believe she's the reason there's a trial today. After DM and MS were arrested, I'm sure that MB, SS and the rest of the crew would have done whatever necessary to cover DM's tracks. I think MM talked very early and that may have given LE a head start on a few things.

Also, I think DM, with his need to be Super Lawyer, having to cross examine MM, has put himself in a very bad position. It's going to be DM against MM- evil vs vulnerable. Here's hoping that everyone MM knows is behind her and giving her the support she's going to need to get thru her day on the stand. After that, she can wash her hands of these 2 evil creatures and move towards building a good life for herself. MOO

 

[Grey-St]

Thanks Grey and welcome. I hope that MM will clarify some things r.e. the ipad and when she was promised the ipad by DM. When did she first see the ipad? Where she was on July3rd-4th and July 23rd, and when she communicated with Smich during that time. Was she living at the Maple Gate home during that time and when did she see Laura last?

I agree! I also wonder if she even knew Laura at all.

 

[inbetweendoors]

This may not be a popular opinion, but here goes... (and of course all MOO):

I know there is plenty of evidence to come, however my preliminary opinion is that I'm finding it hard to reconcile MS being a part of the actual murder of LB (again, *so far*).

I'm hung up on his lyrics "last time I saw her was outside the home" (surely they wouldn't have killed her outside?) and the witness "garage testimony" that he said "we burned a girl and dumped her in the lake". To me this implies that he was definitely involved in the incineration and remains/phone disposal, but not the actual killing.

It also seems like DM was going out of his way to set MS up to take the fall - having him pose for Eliminator photos, while ensuring pics of himself were innocuous (standing on bucket with plane close to the same time as the tarp pic - taken at separate locations), giving MS the red bag and the iPad. I also don't think it's implausible that DM himself named the iPad "Mark's iPad" while setting it up prior to giving it to him. After all, it had DM's iTunes info of which the password MS was initially not privy to.

This isn't to say MS didn't have a hand in planning...though I don't feel we've seen evidence to support that just yet.

Helping DM obtain firearms could even be argued that his intention was to commit armed robberies (missions) but not murder.

Not saying he's a good guy by any stretch, but I'm interested to see what additional info may be presented about phone locations at the time of the murder and any other evidence the Crown may present against MS. If I were the jury, *at this point*, I don't think I'd feel confident convicting MS of M1.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

 

[matou]

The Mob Reporter: What the Jury Saw-What was on Millard's Computers-1

[video=youtube;46QwzJZulf4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46QwzJZulf4[/video]

 

[matou]

The Mob Reporter: What the Jury Saw-What was on Millard's Computer-2

[video=youtube;9ksGlY5-N7Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ksGlY5-N7Q[/video]