Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #1

[canadiangirl]

Re. selling stuff for Millardair/DM after DM's arrest.


<modsnip>

Management Consultant to Executive Team
Aviation Co.
2012 &#8211; 2013 (1 year)

He worked for DM and Millardair. I don't know today (memory!), if he only searched new tenants for the Waterloo hangar or sold stuff too.

I believe he was selling if you sift through the old posts, I remember an aviation website specifically for selling things, and he was the poster selling it off which is how we made the connection.

 

[andreww]

I agree he needed it urgently, with the way AJ described he needed to get the trailer finished up, seems he was up to something.
He went to a whole lot of effort to get this specific truck. Burner phone, calling ads, meeting up with them to test drive.

When you say gunned down, do you think they let him out somewhere and then shot him? Then put his body back in the truck?

No, I think Millard pulled over, pulled the gun and orders TB out of the truck. TB either refused or lunged for the gun and was shot.

 

[canadiangirl]

Why would they want to burn interiors? If they are stripping stolen vehicles for parts, they still need to dispose of the chassis of the car. What possible reason would they have of disposing of the interior separately? In the case of TBs truck I think they wanted to ensure that any evidence that they were in there was gone, but I doubt that would be something they would have done on other vehicles.

Someone had mentioned that a stripped down car was worth more money, maybe I'm confusing the post then

 

[andreww]

Someone had mentioned that a stripped down car was worth more money, maybe I'm confusing the post then

What they were likely saying is that when a vehicle is stolen, it is worth more for parts than as a whole because the VIN will always identify it as being stolen. A stolen car has zero value over the long term. Its engine, transmission, rims, stereo, etc. all have value though.

 

[Juballee]

If AJ had mentioned the truck to crime stoppers when he first saw it on Wednesday, LE could have not only zeroed in on the suspects sooner, but they would have been able to make their arrests before more evidence could be hidden, like the gun MS buried. Then maybe we would have known whose fingerprints were on the gun.

Personally, right up until Tim's ashes were found, I had hopes that he was still alive somewhere, did AJ not have the same hope? I would have hoped that if he did, he would have said something as soon as he suspected it may have been Tim's truck, thinking he might have been able to help him. To me this is similar to the 'Why didn't DM tell LE as soon as he could if he was innocent' argument. As it has been pointed out here, you only have to fear someone while they are free, once they are in jail they are no longer a threat to you, theoretically.

I almost find it suspicious that he knew for days that DM could be a suspect in a major crime, that he took photos of the evidence, verified it anonymously, and then did nothing about until after he was fired and it was too late. Those photos would have been perfect for blackmailing, actually. Not that I'm saying that is what he was planning, just that it is a possibility, logically.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

From the timeline above:

May 9th-Thursday-AJ takes picture of truck and VIN number- calls CrimeStoppers-gets confirmation-holds family meeting that night and SS storms out of meeting.
May 9th- Thursday- in CN statement to LE, she assisted DM in moving trailer & truck to DM's mothers house and assisted moving incinerator into a stand of trees after they dropped trailer/truck off.

It is rather curious that AJ never mentioned the incinerator at the hangar since it was clearly still there on the day he took the pics of the truck & called crimestoppers. Unless of course it wasn't uncommon for the incinerator to be there? Routinely used to burn... whatever?

Then it would have been very unusually to have seen the incinerator "gone", whenever it did. Maybe, the poor man had to vomit because of his thoughts re incinerator?

 

[meterclicks]

Omar Palmili, who fell asleep and missed a call from the guy interested in buying his truck.

Testified Thursday.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

May 9th is when the incinerator is moved into the trees. I think this was a move from another spot on that property, not from the hangar.

From the barn.

 

[Ontario Mom]

May 9th is when the incinerator is moved into the trees. I think this was a move from another spot on that property, not from the hangar.

When was it moved from the hangar to the farm in Ayr? On the 7th is when DM sent the text/email for no one to come to the hangar. On the 8th AJ first sees Tim's truck in the hangar so I assumed (probably wrongly) the incinerator was still there too.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Weekend discussion?! When am I supposed to actually get things done? :laughing:

"The trial is expected to last four months." So... June?

 

[missberry]

No, I think Millard pulled over, pulled the gun and orders TB out of the truck. TB either refused or lunged for the gun and was shot.

While this is a possibility, I find it really hard to believe TB would refuse or lunge for the gun. He had a family and a young daughter. I know in the same situation I myself would get out of that truck super fast! Living is more important then having your vehicle stolen! I think if a gun was pulled on him and he was told to get out of the truck, knowing it was 1 against 2, he would! The only way I can see him putting up a fight is if someone attacked him and it's just instinct to fight back (like if someone tried to incapacitate him). Perhaps that happened and then they pulled the gun?

 

[Juballee]

As for the tattoo, IMO I you can see it in some of DM photo's faintly where it was.
I think the box was drawn in by a sharpie, after all DM loves to doodle.

That may explain 1 of the 3 inconsistencies, but how would a sharpie change the placement and lettering to all caps? I doubt that's the best disguise he can come up with, doodling a box around an existing tattoo. If he was concerned about being identified for his tattoos, which he knows were known to police, he could have just worn a long sleeve shirt or a bandaid.

 

[andreww]

If AJ had mentioned the truck to crime stoppers when he first saw it on Wednesday, LE could have not only zeroed in on the suspects sooner, but they would have been able to make their arrests before more evidence could be hidden, like the gun MS buried. Then maybe we would have known whose fingerprints were on the gun.

Personally, right up until Tim's ashes were found, I had hopes that he was still alive somewhere, did AJ not have the same hope? I would have hoped that if he did, he would have said something as soon as he suspected it may have been Tim's truck, thinking he might have been able to help him. To me this is similar to the 'Why didn't DM tell LE as soon as he could if he was innocent' argument. As it has been pointed out here, you only have to fear someone while they are free, once they are in jail they are no longer a threat to you, theoretically.

I almost find it suspicious that he knew for days that DM could be a suspect in a major crime, that he took photos of the evidence, verified it anonymously, and then did nothing about until after he was fired and it was too late. Those photos would have been perfect for blackmailing, actually. Not that I'm saying that is what he was planning, just that it is a possibility, logically.

I can't really blame AJ here. Remember, he is standing amongst this crew. You may have had hope, but realistic people like myself and AJ already had a pretty good idea as to TBs fate at that point. AJ has to consider his safety and his SIL's safety. He has to consider that his SIL may be involved in some way and that he may be throwing his grandkids father in jail. He has to consider that if he rats out Millard, both he and his SIL will be out of work tomorrow. No severance either. Get the picture? The decision came with a lot of negative consequences. Its nice to say you would have called immediately, but would you have done it immediately if it meant your daughters family likely wouldn't be able to pay their rent anymore?

 

[MsSherlock]

Finally, the tattoo description!!!! How many pages have been spent here on speculation of its description?


I would love to see the piece of wood that Igor drew the tattoo on. I wonder why they did not introduce the drawing as evidence yet? They didn't introduce it when the officer brought it up, nor when Igor did, is there some reason it's not being entered into evidence?

What happens if Igor is wrong about his description of the tattoo? What if 3 out of the 4 things he said to describe it do not match the actual tattoo? Will it be an OJ's glove type of moment, will RP start a trendy new catchphrase about it, is that the fear?

Does the crown have to produce all the evidence in court, or can they include just the parts that support their theories and bury the evidence that may be contradictory or throw doubt?

At least we know now why RBEG couldn't say for certain which arm he saw the tattoo on, if both he and DM took turns driving, he would have had an opportunity to have a clear view of each arm.

Well Juballee, IMO, I don't know how much I'd get my knickers in a knot over the tattoo and whether or not it has a box around it. I don't think we can forget that DM went to makeup artist school and was probably very capable of drawing a little rectangle around his tattoo- probably in an effort to foil identification. (DM gets an F on this one) Remember, he's a doodler...lol so maybe while he was plotting, he doodled a box? IMHO, there's enough hard evidence like the video, pictures, DNA and statements from friends that DM's little goose is cooked. Also with MS giving that admission that he was in fact the guy in the back on Igor's test drive makes it hard to discredit what Igor saw that day. FWIK, it's up to the defence to try to blow holes in the Crowns evidence, but right now, it seems like DM's defence is more concerned about DM's lovely, genuine personality. MOO

 

[andreww]

While this is a possibility, I find it really hard to believe TB would refuse or lunge for the gun. He had a family and a young daughter. I know in the same situation I myself would get out of that truck super fast! Living is more important then having your vehicle stolen! I think if a gun was pulled on him and he was told to get out of the truck, knowing it was 1 against 2, he would! The only way I can see him putting up a fight is if someone attacked him and it's just instinct to fight back (like if someone tried to incapacitate him). Perhaps that happened and then they pulled the gun?

Agreed. Millard is likely smart enough to know that it would be better not to use the weapon unless absolutely necessary. Makes more sense that TB would resist the insinuation of a gun more than actually facing a gun.

 

[meterclicks]

Why would they want to burn interiors? If they are stripping stolen vehicles for parts, they still need to dispose of the chassis of the car. What possible reason would they have of disposing of the interior separately? In the case of TBs truck I think they wanted to ensure that any evidence that they were in there was gone, but I doubt that would be something they would have done on other vehicles.

Mark Carcasole &#8207;@MarkCarcGlobal 33s34 seconds ago
Jennings tells Dungey vehicles #Millars was working on were regularly stripped of interior. He says he was told DM had allergies to mould.

Apparently, it was something that DM normally did.

Why would he need to get rid of evidence, this stand up allergic to mold type of guy

 

[Arnie M]

Finally, the tattoo description!!!! How many pages have been spent here on speculation of its description?


I would love to see the piece of wood that Igor drew the tattoo on. I wonder why they did not introduce the drawing as evidence yet? They didn't introduce it when the officer brought it up, nor when Igor did, is there some reason it's not being entered into evidence?

What happens if Igor is wrong about his description of the tattoo? What if 3 out of the 4 things he said to describe it do not match the actual tattoo? Will it be an OJ's glove type of moment, will RP start a trendy new catchphrase about it, is that the fear?

Does the crown have to produce all the evidence in court, or can they include just the parts that support their theories and bury the evidence that may be contradictory or throw doubt?

At least we know now why RBEG couldn't say for certain which arm he saw the tattoo on, if both he and DM took turns driving, he would have had an opportunity to have a clear view of each arm.

Still think police arrested the wrong people ???

.

 

[Juballee]

Obviously Millard's only interest here was the truck. I just don't get why he felt he had to kill TB to get it? Why not just steal the truck at night? The way I see this is that DM needed the truck in a hurry, probably tied in to his urgent need for the trailer. I believe he wanted the ignition intact, which explains why he would want the owner and the key in the truck, and why he didn't hotwire one from a lot. I believe that the plan was to simply pull a gun on TB, take his phone and dump him in the middle of nowhere. I believe TB, who really needed the money for that truck, resisted and was gunned down. Ask yourself why, if Millard's plan was to execute TB, did he allow himself to be seen by TB's wife and neighbour? Ask yourself if Millard was planning on gunning down the guy the previous day in downtown Toronto in the middle of the day? I believe Millard was aware that police don't put a huge amount of resources in to car thefts. Its easier and cheaper to just wait for the vehicle to turn up and hopefully solve the crime via fingerprints. So I don't think he was overly cautious about concealing his identity at that point. The crime was never meant to be more than a car jacking.

I agree with most of the reasoning here, but I still think that even if it was just going to be a carjacking, DM would have done something to conceal his identity at least a little, it is still a crime, and MS seemed to think concealment was necessary.

I also think he would not have picked the only test driver so far who had other witnesses present. If it was really about a car jacking, why not wait another day and pick a victim who was alone when he met them?

And really, even if it was a car jacking that was planned, why not warn the employees to stay away ahead of time as a part of the plan? To me there is so much that says this was not a planned event on DM's part.

 

[andreww]

Mark Carcasole &#8207;@MarkCarcGlobal 33s34 seconds ago
Jennings tells Dungey vehicles #Millars was working on were regularly stripped of interior. He says he was told DM had allergies to mould.

Apparently, it was something that DM normally did.

Why would he need to get rid of evidence, this stand up allergic to mold type of guy

AJ was in the dark about a lot of things. Likely DM was having a wrecker crush the chassis of his stolen vehicles. The mold thing was BS. Millard likely needed to supply the chassis to the wrecker completely stripped so they could properly recycle the metal.

 

[meterclicks]

AJ was in the dark about a lot of things. Likely DM was having a wrecker crush the chassis of his stolen vehicles. The mold thing was BS. Millard likely needed to supply the chassis to the wrecker completely stripped so they could properly recycle the metal.

It will be interesting if SS does in fact testify. Should find out a lot more about the workings in and around the hangar.