By the numbers: US police kill more in days than other countries do in years

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I'm so confused. Why did your friend's dad, the LE with the sidearm at sunday brunch, belong in prison?
 
Hiandmighty said:
I'm so confused. Why did your friend's dad, the LE with the sidearm at sunday brunch, belong in prison?
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Not for carrying a weapon, as I've stated above, but the mentality of needing to carry two weapons to church and brunch might be related to the reasons he was imprisoned, about which, out of respect for his family, I will decline to discuss.
 
I live in a rural area. People carry here. Not shocking or unnerving.
 
Kip said:
Maybe we should compare the # of cops killed by violence in the US versus the # of cops killed by violence in England.
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I have no time to research statistics right now.....must leave for work in 30 mins....but I am certain that being a cop in the USA must be more dangerous than being a cop in the UK. The very fact that most US criminals are armed whilst most UK ones are not must guarantee that, to start with.
 
Montjoy said:
Could it possibly be that there are just more bad cops in the US?
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In view of the statistics, we cannot rule that out. It remains a distinct possibility. But that does not detract from the fact the the majority are good cops doing a decent job to the best of their abilities.

But are there more bad cops in the USA? I certainly think - based upon the video evidence broadcast globally of cops using firearms wholly innappropiately without apparently even considering the possibility of being held to account - that perhaps it has been too easy in some police departments to behave badly and get away with it, with bad behaviour covered up or explained away without any real investigation of complaints. The officers caught on tape seem to display every confidence that they can shoot someone who poses no threat with impunity. Clearly - in my opinion - complaints against officers behaving in this way should be properly investigated.

Here in the UK we have a body known as the IPCC - the Independent Police Complaints Commision - whose task is to lead investigations into allegations of police misconduct. Many such allegations do of course often prove to be groundless, but those where misconduct is clearly demonstrated do tend to result in disciplinary proceedings, and in the worst cases dismissals or even criminal prosecutions.

I don't know if such a body exists in the USA, but if not, perhaps there is a need for one to both restore public confidence, weed out the bad apples or deter officers from being bad apples, and better protect the good names and reputations of all decent police officers.
 
JSinUK said:
In view of the statistics, we cannot rule that out. It remains a distinct possibility. But that does not detract from the fact the the majority are good cops doing a decent job to the best of their abilities.

But are there more bad cops in the USA? I certainly think - based upon the video evidence broadcast globally of cops using firearms wholly innappropiately without apparently even considering the possibility of being held to account - that perhaps it has been too easy in some police departments to behave badly and get away with it, with bad behaviour covered up or explained away without any real investigation of complaints. The officers caught on tape seem to display every confidence that they can shoot someone who poses no threat with impunity. Clearly - in my opinion - complaints against officers behaving in this way should be properly investigated.

Here in the UK we have a body known as the IPCC - the Independent Police Complaints Commision - whose task is to lead investigations into allegations of police misconduct. Many such allegations do of course often prove to be groundless, but those where misconduct is clearly demonstrated do tend to result in disciplinary proceedings, and in the worst cases dismissals or even criminal prosecutions.

I don't know if such a body exists in the USA, but if not, perhaps there is a need for one to both restore public confidence, weed out the bad apples or deter officers from being bad apples, and better protect the good names and reputations of all decent police officers.
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I agree completely. I think as well that there are inadequate resources for evaluating LE behavior, and in many places there is a need for independent investigation of the abuse of power by LE. Otherwise, it's sort of like my parents asking me if my brother was picking raspberries in my neighbour's yard, if we both were part of the same union or fraternal order of, I guess in this case, brothers.

In my opinion, the overwhelming majority of LE in the US are decent and thoughtful folks. The problem is that it doesn't take many to sour the broth, and if the culture is to protect the group, it can make for a dangerous soup.

eta -- if 5% of a population is a minority, and one learned that 5% of the population were murderers or rapists, should one be at ease? What if it were 4, 3, 2, or 1%? The thing is, the rates of LE criminality are higher than this.
 
Montjoy said:
I agree completely. I think as well that there are inadequate resources for evaluating LE behavior, and in many places there is a need for independent investigation of the abuse of power by LE. Otherwise, it's sort of like my parents asking me if my brother was picking raspberries in my neighbour's yard, if we both were part of the same union or fraternal order of, I guess in this case, brothers.

In my opinion, the overwhelming majority of LE in the US are decent and thoughtful folks. The problem is that it doesn't take many to sour the broth, and if the culture is to protect the group, it can make for a dangerous soup.

eta -- if 5% of a population is a minority, and one learned that 5% of the population were murderers or rapists, should one be at ease? What if it were 4, 3, 2, or 1%? The thing is, the rates of LE criminality are higher than this.
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If the good guys are protecting the bad guys, does that make them all bad guys?
 
I want to know WHY we have so much more violence here than in those other areas ! I have some ideas to throw around , but my battery is low . I will come back and elaborate.
 
Please don't compare the US to other countries that are the size of North Carolina. I used to work with a lady from England (here temporarily w/her husband) who was stunned that an American would drive 4-5 hours for a 2-3 day weekend trip! Their world is very small overseas. No one has the freedom and diversity of this country. Who doesn't prefer to be around people like themselves? This is still the place most people in the world want to live. So we have conflict. This country was founded on it.
 
I don't think "bad cop" has to only describe a cop with nefarious intent. I think it can also be used to describe the training a cop has and unfortunately some cops aren't trained as well as others. This leads to cops being quick to pull their gun and shoot someone they can't control because they haven't been trained properly to de-escalate situations IMO.

Maybe these conversations could happen without the hyperbole and conclusion-jumping if we differentiate what we mean by a bad cop. Are they crooked? Are they power-hungry? Are they just not good at their job?
 
Jovi Girl said:
I want to know WHY we have so much more violence here than in those other areas ! I have some ideas to throw around , but my battery is low . I will come back and elaborate.
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I would love to discuss this. But I don't think we are allowed to address it. It becomes political and gnarly and heated, very quickly.
 
Does anyone think this police officer's actions are reasonable and appropriate? He is at least facing charges for what clearly looks to me like a criminal assault upon a man in a wheelchair. And apparently he is threatening a female detox worker with arrest too if she does not back off and and cease protesting at his actions. A female police officer also present does nothing, either to participate in the assault on the one hand, or try to restrain her colleague on the other. Her actions appear entirely neutral, but do perhaps indicate that cops cannot always be relied upon to talk down their colleagues when anger causes them to overstep the mark......

[video=youtube;TohbY-tHhMw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TohbY-tHhMw[/video]

Cops caught on camera behaving like this need to be seen to be brought to book for it - in any nation or jusisdiction that this happens - for public confidence in the police to be maintained, and for the good standing of all decent officers to be upheld. This particular cop is at least facing criminal charges, but I would question his suitability for being in his job in the first place, having seen that.

Any British cop caught doing that on camera would be dismissed from the police force - or "given the opportunity to resign" - for certain.
 
And this cop is facing criminal charges. So what is the point? Of course he has been fired, just like A British cop would be.

We can post many examples of bad cops here. And we can post many examples of bad citizens, bad doctors, bad teachers, bad parents...what is the point you are trying to make?
 
katydid23 said:
And this cop is facing criminal charges. So what is the point? Of course he has been fired, just like A British cop would be.

We can post many examples of bad cops here. And we can post many examples of bad citizens, bad doctors, bad teachers, bad parents...what is the point you are trying to make?
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It was merely another example of a cop behaving badly that I decided to share. I didn't realise he'd already been fired. Perhaps I should have looked more closely at the case. Apologies.

I guess the point that I was making is that such things do happen and that those who behave in this way need to be seen to suffer the consequences of their actions to protect the good names of all other officers and protect public confidence in the police. That this particular cop is facing such consequences clearly shows that things are moving in the right direction.

I guess I was also wondering if any members of this forum would attempt to justify his behaviour, in which case I would have debated the issue with them. That's all. I am not on a mission to portay all cops as bad human beings. I do actually have a lot of respect for most of them - especially in your country where there are so many gun-toting and highly trigger happy criminals around.

And it is a fact that many more innocent lives have been saved by cops than taken by them, and I could easily find numerous examples of cops risking their lives - and even suffering injuries - to save others.

But I do think the actions of a few bad apples need to be seen, then seen to be acted against. So I make no apologies for posting that video.
 
In May, more murders in Baltimore than in Spain, with 44 million inhabitants. Quiet enough job for the Spanish police, in comparison.
 
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