CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #5

[cazador]

I believe the limitations for SAR operations are cost, flight time limitations of batteries & resolution quality depending altitude. I also understand it can be very difficult to spot someone unless there's a huge variation between the person and the surroundings. Imagine a person curled up under tree cover. Yes, there been successful search operations using FLIR.

Now, FLIR that's mounted to police helicopters, that has super high resolution quality, that's probably around 100k, not including the helicopter. SAR just does not have the funds for this, even though they are called out, in most cases, strictly by the Sheriff's office. The capability of the military - well - that's just not going to be an option here. IMO

I think many SAR organizations are of the opinion this technology will be utilized but right now cannot replace actual boots on the ground.

Perhaps someone with more knowledge can chime in.

Cal Fire Copters .. They have it. My wife and myself had a personal tour by a pilot .. Maybe they could be pulled in if not being used for fire..? Still it does cost, as the pilot told me it costs around 300.00 per hour just to fly it because of maintenance..
Most SAR is Volunteer except for LE who is involved. So Drone cost and expense is on the Volunteer but there is high resolution and infrared available ..
SAR drones cost big dollars for an individual person.
Search and Rescue Drones
There is training available..
Search and Rescue Drone Training Course - DARTdrones Flight School

 

[Kapua]

It was said earlier that due to dogs only being able to cool themselves by panting, and not being able to smell when their mouths are open, that the heat could have contributed to not picking up a scent.

If tracking dogs are so completely ineffective in heat, why did the search team bring them out at all?

 

[Lilibet]

Someone who has the energy (I don’t) might want to go back to the first thread or the media thread to check into whether FLIR was used. My recollection is that the sheriff said it was too hot to be effective.

Where’s Barbara?

 

[Lilibet]

If tracking dogs are so completely ineffective in heat, why did the search team bring them out at all?

Better than not trying. I think they used them early in the morning when it was “cooler” too.

 

[?mysterian?]

If tracking dogs are so completely ineffective in heat, why did the search team bring them out at all?

I think SAR did all they could possibly do to locate B.

 

[cazador]

If tracking dogs are so completely ineffective in heat, why did the search team bring them out at all?

It is an event and who is to say the dog wont hit the scent ? It happens..
I think the person in charge of the dog has to make the decision.
I had asked somebody in the area to go there with a dog and take a look..
That person has a SAR team.
That person was there and said it was way to hot and she will try again when weather permits.
That person made the decision for the dog .. I think it was 105 ..
Way to hot for me too... lol
The only way is early morning and late evening. You have to camp out there to make that work.
jmho

 

[rosesfromangels]

If tracking dogs are so completely ineffective in heat, why did the search team bring them out at all?

I asked similar questions about the SAR dogs in a missing persons case at Joshua Tree National Park and was informed that the heat actually enhances the sniffers, but the overall heat effect has to be carefully monitored. Burning paws, dehydration and such.

Trackergd or another expert, not I, would know the scoop here.

 

[wary]

If tracking dogs are so completely ineffective in heat, why did the search team bring them out at all?

Well, they aren’t machines. So I’d think that the search team thought that they might help. We actually haven’t heard a word from LE about whether they picked up a scent or not.

(In the case of Paul Miller at Joshua Tree, I believe that LE said at first that the dogs had picked up his scent in the parking lot, but did not say for several months that the dogs had tracked him all the way up to the oasis before giving in to the heat. The cases aren’t related; I’m just thinking about LE statements not necessarily telling us much.)

 

[cazador]

I think SAR did all they could possibly do to locate B.

When you look at how many showed up and LE had all their equipment and coordination. It was an excellent attempt to find Barbara Thomas.

 

[Kapua]

When you look at how many showed up and LE had all their equipment and coordination. It was an excellent attempt to find Barbara Thomas.

I totally agree. But I am very curious as to the degree to which heat can throw off the search dogs. And do we actually know if they picked up Barbara's scent at any point?

 

[Davia18]

Search ongoing for woman missing in Mojave Desert

LAKE HAVASU CITY – Nearly a month after the disappearance of a woman in San Bernardino County, and questions linger as to how and why Bullhead City resident Barbara Thomas, 69, became missing in the Mojave Desert.

The San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Department ended its search for Thomas on July 22, after officials reported that they have exhausted all of their resources in searching for her. Now the sheriff’s office is pursuing other leads in its investigation into Thomas’s disappearance. Meanwhile, husband Robert Thomas has hired an attorney after he was reported by San Bernardino County Sheriff’s deputies to have failed a polygraph test in July.

Others following the case are attempting to resolve the mystery of Thomas’s disappearance, and offering theories of their own. One such group, “Barbara Thomas Missing – Case Discussion,” has already garnered more than 200 members. And they aren’t the only ones who have something to say.

According to Indiana-based WLFI News 18, Barbara Thomas’s son believes Robert may have some answers about her disappearance. Matthew Schellinkhout, of Lafayette, Indiana, first learned of his mother’s disappearance six days after it took place.

“It’s just that none of it adds up,” Schellinkhout told WLFI 18 News this week. “It’s angering and frustrating. I hope he just tells the truth about what happened.”

According to San Bernardino County Sheriff’s officials, Thomas was last seen wearing a black bikini with a red baseball cap, and tan hiking boots with black socks. According to initial reports, Thomas and her husband became separated on July 12 while hiking 20 miles north of Interstate 40. Thomas did not have any supplies with her at the time of her disappearance.

Robert Thomas later made statements to CBS Inside Edition journalists, expressing the possibility that his wife may have been abducted, and pleaded for his wife’s safe return.

Anyone with knowledge as to Barbara Thomas’ whereabouts is asked to contact the San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Department at 760-326-9200, or the sheriff’s department’s dispatch line at 760-956-5001.

 

[rkendmar]

I totally agree. But I am very curious as to the degree to which heat can throw off the search dogs. And do we actually know if they picked up Barbara's scent at any point?

I can't answer your first question.
However, dogs have been successful tracking in desert conditions before (see Paul Miller at Joshua Tree).
Hopefully a SAR person who participates in desert searches will chime in.

As to your second question.
LE did make a statement that the search had found "no evidence" of BT.
LE did not specifically mention if BT's scent had been picked up at any time in the area where she was reported as last seen.

 

[MsBetsy]

I totally agree. But I am very curious as to the degree to which heat can throw off the search dogs. And do we actually know if they picked up Barbara's scent at any point?

I've read that the best conditions for picking up scents are cool, moist, days with no wind, in shady areas with lush vegetation.

Hot and dry conditions have a negative impact on scent. Scent needs moisture to survive. Direct sunlight dries out and destroys scent vapors.

Also, heat can cause the scent to rise to above the level of where the dog is working.
That's all I can remember, except that rain sometimes freshens the scent.
This is why I can believe the dogs did not pick up her scent. (if they didn't)
Imo

 

[Kapua]

I can't answer your first question.
However, dogs have been successful tracking in desert conditions before (see Paul Miller at Joshua Tree).
Hopefully a SAR person who participates in desert searches will chime in.

As to your second question.
LE did make a statement that the search had found "no evidence" of BT.
LE did not specifically mention if BT's scent had been picked up at any time in the area where she was reported as last seen.

Thank you, that is what I recall as well.

 

[Fukiyama]

I can see my car on Google earth. Can Google earth be focused on a particular area as needed? I suppose it would take a little time to contact Google satellite, all of that, just seems within possibilities of our technology today.
Our military is among the finest in the world. Surely we have the capabilities of tracking troop and armored vehicle movement.

Google Earth gets its imagery from third party satellites. It wouldn't be able to get "on demand" images of the ground.

The military has the capability, but again, the "on demand" part of it is very expensive. Satellites have established orbits and can't be everywhere at once. To move them to different orbits requires expending fuel, a finite resource.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

Search ongoing for woman missing in Mojave Desert

Thank you for sharing that. Also happy to see they are asking for info at the bottom of the article.

Awesome. Hope it helps!

 

[10ofRods]

If tracking dogs are so completely ineffective in heat, why did the search team bring them out at all?

Well, it's dry heat that's especially difficult for them. But the real reason, I think, is training. Many dog and SAR volunteers use every chance they can get to increase the capacity of themselves and their dogs. Some dogs get really acclimated to heat (just saw a documentary featuring a German Shepherd that was very good with heat). And, one never knows the capacity of a dog until they try the dog in the field.

At any rate, there seemed to be no sign that the dogs picked up anything. But that doesn't automatically mean Barbara wasn't once there. I still wonder what object of Barb's they used to cue the dogs as to scent. It needed to be a piece of clothing not laundered recently or similar. An alternate pair of shoes would have been good. I still can't fathom why RT didn't himself give more information about the search, as while it was still going on, there were tons of news outlets who would have run with the story.

 

[SDHELPS]

Search ongoing for woman missing in Mojave Desert

Thank you for posting this! It's at least nice to see a current article regarding Barbara. Also appreciate @Davia18 for sharing the content as I get a subscription paywall and could not view.

Where are you Barbara? Your family needs you...

 

[10ofRods]

I totally agree. But I am very curious as to the degree to which heat can throw off the search dogs. And do we actually know if they picked up Barbara's scent at any point?

We don't know for sure. However, I do believe the media that was standing by during the initial search (when the dogs were out) would have picked up news of this. They would likely have worked the dogs (and gotten different dogs) for more days. I do think the Sheriff would have said, "A dog briefly followed the scent trail to a dead end at X place," instead of "No evidence found."

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

I don't know if anyone has thought of contacting Mark Williams-Thomas. He is not in US, however he is a former UK Met detective, and he does tweet and look at, and give opinions on, other crimes on tv, in press etc. He might have some thoughts at least?

He also has an international specialist investigations agency. All details in link below.

Home - Mark Williams-Thomas