CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #7

[CharlestonGal]

Do you think someone knows for sure if she is deceased?

Yes.

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

The missing nursing student that Carrie McGonigle and her dog found was Michelle Le; I may have mentioned her case upthread.

I wasn't aware that she had a search and rescue group!

Fabulous idea to contact her, IMHO.

ETA: The reasons that I was thinking of Michelle's case are 1) that she was found in Sunol Canyon (East SF Bay Area), which is also not an easy place to search, and 2) I remember that her friends, family members, and volunteers came up from Southern CA every weekend to search - for months. They would not give up. And their efforts paid off.

Your post gave me chills - I had no idea that Amber's mom found Michelle! How cool is that! I am so glad she has embraced such an important and necessary endeavor in Amber’s honor. So impressive. And it makes me emotional to think that Carrie was instrumental in helping to bring Michelle home.

 

[Cherwell]

If LE thinks there's a credible report of a kidnapper (phone calls, etc), then this is an amazing and almost unprecedented example of withholding information. Somewhere, a woman is being held by ??? and we are not to be thinking to be on the look-out for her?

If negotiations with the kidnappers are still ongoing (after more than a month) and LE hasn't located the kidnapper, that too is unprecedented and very scary. Let's say she's in Mexico. That could slow things down for sure. "Locating" means "finding the general area" where the phone call is coming from. Or mail.

But you're right - we have no idea.

In a case of kidnapping with ransom demands I would expect a complete news blackout while the police were investigating. Interference by the public could put the victim at risk.

I think it's highly unlikely that this is what's happened here, but I'm not ruling it out.

 

[LietKynes]

Do you think someone knows for sure if she is deceased?

Yes.

Agreed to both.

 

[10ofRods]

In a case of kidnapping with ransom demands I would expect a complete news blackout while the police were investigating. Interference by the public could put the victim at risk.

I think it's highly unlikely that this is what's happened here, but I'm not ruling it out.

I'm not that familiar with kidnapping cases (just the Lindbergh case a Ind Patty Hearst). In Patty's case, it was in the news almost immediately and the ransom demand didn't come until quite a bit later. Her boyfriend was able to give a pretty good description of the kidnappers (and was immediately a suspect himself).

So I'm curious about other kidnapping cases that have been radio silent. It would have to be a targeted kidnapping, right? Because when kids are kidnapped here in California, there are Amber Alerts, of course (but an adult kidnapping is somewhat different and if targeted, like a political kidnapping, I can see the need for silence).

I just can't think of a single case (would love to read a couple!)

 

[Kittybunny]

I believe she was by the rocks because she was walking with RT and he said he stopped but she kept going, pulled ahead. Yea, she got lost and if she ended up at the highway she very well, out of thirst and heat, could have flagged a car down.

And then what? If they were really good Samaritans, wouldn't they have taken her to a hospital where she would have been treated for dehydration, heat stroke whatever, and then released? Presumably LE checked all nearby hospitals, even if by very rare chance these mysterious good Samaritans never watched the news. And then of course, there is Barbara herself, who barring a super rare amnesiac episode would have reached out by now.

OR are you suggesting that the person who stopped had evil intentions?

 

[happyday]

In a case of kidnapping with ransom demands I would expect a complete news blackout while the police were investigating. Interference by the public could put the victim at risk.

I think it's highly unlikely that this is what's happened here, but I'm not ruling it out.

That would make sense. But I also think kidnapping for ransom is unlikely mainly because they did intense searches for 9 days. I don’t believe LE would waste time and resources if they knew she was elsewhere. And I also don’t believe kidnappers would wait 9 days to demand ransom.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

It was 6 weeks ago last Friday that Barbara went missing on July 12th.

When SBCSO and their SAR team 'suspended' the search for her, they said:
(1) their Specialized Investigations unit (SIU) was taking over the investigation into BT's disappearance, as is their policy for missing persons whom could not be found after doing a thorough search for them.
(2) they would return to do further searches if new information became available as part of their investigation.
Search for missing hiker in Mojave Desert suspended

MOO:
I don't question the thoroughness or extent of their search for her, and truly believe (and think LE does as well) they would have found her if she wandered off, got lost, became suddenly vulnerable to the elements, etc. within 5-10 minutes' walk from her husband and their RV.

9 days searching with their expertise and all resources to hand (Ground Searches with dozens of experienced desert and cave search teams, K9 units, ATVs, Air Searches with helicopters/airplanes), and having RT right there showing them where she went missing and them finding "no evidence of Barbara Thomas" during their daily searches over vast terrain went above and beyond the call of duty, IMO.

The SIU hasn't made any public statements about their investigation into her disappearance in all this time (over a month since they took over). Nor have they sent out any bulletins for the public to be on the lookout for her, just the standard facts (a description of her and where and when she went missing) and what number to call if anyone has any information.

About the SIU, according to their webpage:
"...They investigate a variety of major crimes including homicides, suspicious deaths, .... Personnel assigned to the division are highly-skilled and experienced investigators they use the latest technology to investigate cases."
Specialized Investigations – San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department

I'm confident they are working hard to find Barbara. Presumably they have not identified any new information that indicates they should be doing additional searches around the area where she went missing, or they would have returned to The Mojave Desert where RT said she went missing as promised.

 

[cazador]

Your post reminded me that Carrie McGonigle, Amber Dubois' mother, created a search/rescue team after Amber was abducted and murdered. She has a (or more) SAR-trained dogs and they have helped recover some missing people. She could be a great help to Ms. Thomas' family and friends, and I believe she would be happy to share her contacts and experience. They might even search for Ms. Thomas, if her family asks. She lives in Escondido, just north of San Diego. Close enough, IMO, to ask!

Remembering Amber Dubois and Chelsea King a decade later

>>>snip

Since 2010, Amber’s mother Carrie McGonigle has honored her daughter by participating in searches for missing children and adults using search-and-rescue dogs. In 2011, Carrie and her dog located the remains of a local nursing student in Northern California. Carrie said her daughter would have said, “you go, mom!”

<<<snip

The link to her Facebook page (Team Amber Rescue) :

Team Amber Rescue

I don't have Facebook, but I was able to read the page, where I found this PDF:

Managing Social Media When A Loved One Is Missing

Managing Social Media Sites When A Loved One Is Missing.pdf

I have talked with her and she has been to the site. She did not search at that moment, maybe she will when the weather cools.. We are not looking for a live body, there is no reason to get a heat stroke.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I do believe there is a strong possibilty that someone she thought was benign may have picked Barbara up, and didn't have good intentions when doing so. She would only know this once trapped inside of the vehicle when it was too late.

We have also seen victims abducted with a female inside of the vehicle along with a male. We are seeing more cases involving male, and female tag teams. I suppose they do this because they know another female wont feel as apprehensive, and will be more trusting if they see another female in the vehicle. Male, female violent offenders have become so plentiful now that ID has a seperate series of just those cases. Many do involve sex predators where the female is used to lure the victims. The females also partake in the sexual abuse, and even in the murders of the victims.

It bothers me from what I've have read over the years about predators is they often cruise these kind of areas looking for targets who are vulnerable, and alone.

Barbara seem to be a free spirit even at her age. She may have been too trusting by always seeing the best in everyone.

We have seen cases where the victim either got in the vehicle willingly or was pulled into the vehicle quickly in the blink of an eye. In most of those cases no one saw or heard anything at all when it happened. Not one thing for it only takes seconds to do.

Jmho

 

[rosesfromangels]

I do believe there is a strong possibilty that someone she thought was benign may have picked Barbara up, and didn't have good intentions when doing so. She would only know this once trapped inside of the vehicle when it was too late.

We have also seen victims abducted with a female inside of the vehicle along with a male. We are seeing more cases involving male, and female tag teams. I suppose they do this because they know another female wont feel as apprehensive, and will be more trusting if they see another female in the vehicle. Male, female violent offenders have become so plentiful now that ID has a seperate series of just those cases. Many do involve sex predators where the female is used to lure the victims. The females also partake in the sexual abuse, and even in the murders of the victims.

It bothers me from what I've have read over the years about predators is they often cruise these kind of areas looking for targets who are vulnerable, and alone.

Barbara seem to be a free spirit even at her age. She may have been too trusting by always seeing the best in everyone.

We have seen cases where the victim either got in the vehicle willingly or was pulled into the vehicle quickly in the blink of an eye. In most of those cases no one saw or heard anything at all when it hapoened. Not one thing for it only takes seconds to do.

Jmho

But didn’t LE definitively state “no foul play”? RT seems to think she was taken.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[10ofRods]

Unless RT is hard of hearing (possible), he would have heard a car stop and a car door open and close, IMO. Perhaps he did and perhaps the police are discounting that detail. It would have had to be two people, because no driver could pull an adult into a car via the driver's door, they'd have to get out, subdue her, etc. More likely that the person tried to appear helpful and Barb was so desperate that instead of walking back to her husband for water, she got in the car.

In that case, I think she had already crossed the road and was unable to get into the RV. Makes no sense for her to leave her husband cordially and then hop in a car that happened to stop while she was trying to cross the road. She had every reason to believe she'd be in the RV within 30-40 seconds at that point.

Maybe the Bad Guys offered her a seat in the car with A/C to wait for RT and then took off with her (that's the only thing that would make sense to me). The chances of it are vanishingly small, but this is a very strange case. That would make Barbara one of the most unlucky people I've ever heard of.

Obviously, LE doesn't think that happened. I wish we had one of the techie people here on this thread to help us understand cell phone pings and GPS tracking. There's cell service at that spot, so surely they checked the tower(s) to see who was out there (and if they had criminal history). Can they tell from pings if the car stopped? If it was only for 1-2 minutes? I have no clue.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

But didn’t LE definitively state “no foul play”? RT seems to think she was taken.

Amateur opinion and speculation

According to this MSM article, they ruled out her being kidnapped or abducted:
"California police rule out husband's claims that his bikini-clad wife, 69, who disappeared during their hike was KIDNAPPED as search for her enters its tenth day:
'We don't think she was abducted. It's a very remote area. There's no evidence to suggest she was abducted,' spokeswoman Jodi Miller told DailyMail.com.
...
California police say missing hiker who vanished 'in her bikini' was NOT abducted | Daily Mail Online

 

[Cherwell]

Unless RT is hard of hearing (possible), he would have heard a car stop and a car door open and close, IMO. Perhaps he did and perhaps the police are discounting that detail.
......................
In that case, I think she had already crossed the road and was unable to get into the RV. Makes no sense for her to leave her husband cordially and then hop in a car that happened to stop while she was trying to cross the road. She had every reason to believe she'd be in the RV within 30-40 seconds at that point.

Unless it happened further down the road, after (as speculated) she took the wrong trail and rejoined the road elsewhere.

 

[RANCH]

According to this MSM article, they ruled out her being kidnapped or abducted:
"California police rule out husband's claims that his bikini-clad wife, 69, who disappeared during their hike was KIDNAPPED as search for her enters its tenth day:
'We don't think she was abducted. It's a very remote area. There's no evidence to suggest she was abducted,' spokeswoman Jodi Miller told DailyMail.com.
...
California police say missing hiker who vanished 'in her bikini' was NOT abducted | Daily Mail Online

So "We don't think she was abducted." Means LE has ruled out an abduction?

 

[darring21]

Unless RT is hard of hearing (possible), he would have heard a car stop and a car door open and close, IMO. Perhaps he did and perhaps the police are discounting that detail. It would have had to be two people, because no driver could pull an adult into a car via the driver's door, they'd have to get out, subdue her, etc. More likely that the person tried to appear helpful and Barb was so desperate that instead of walking back to her husband for water, she got in the car.

In that case, I think she had already crossed the road and was unable to get into the RV. Makes no sense for her to leave her husband cordially and then hop in a car that happened to stop while she was trying to cross the road. She had every reason to believe she'd be in the RV within 30-40 seconds at that point.

Maybe the Bad Guys offered her a seat in the car with A/C to wait for RT and then took off with her (that's the only thing that would make sense to me). The chances of it are vanishingly small, but this is a very strange case. That would make Barbara one of the most unlucky people I've ever heard of.

Obviously, LE doesn't think that happened. I wish we had one of the techie people here on this thread to help us understand cell phone pings and GPS tracking. There's cell service at that spot, so surely they checked the tower(s) to see who was out there (and if they had criminal history). Can they tell from pings if the car stopped? If it was only for 1-2 minutes? I have no clue.

I think they need a warrant for a tower dump and to get a warrant, they need evidence of a crime. LE has stated no indication of foul play. Typically, LE can get warrants for the missing individual's phone after a week or so, but for others, I think the bar is higher. Just my guess, though.

 

[happyday]

So "We don't think she was abducted." Means LE has ruled out an abduction?

To me it means they do not think she was abducted and aren’t investigating it as such. I’m sure nothing can be ruled out 100% until she is found, but I think it’s as close as you can get to ruling it out at the moment.

 

[al66pine]

{{I overlooked using multi-quote w this, sorry for any confusion.}}
Post 611 by LietKynes:
"You have a good point there. But it would show that a person cared enough about their missing spouse that they'd be willing to consider legal action."

This was in response to RT's earlier assumption that she'd been kidnapped...
Since he's already hired an atty., and that atty. is "frantically" trying to find Barbara-- what is the progress in this case ? What has his atty. been doing ?....
Maybe hire a P.I. to find her ? Unsure if that would constitute "legal action"....

@LietKynes Thanks for your post, clarifying your question and thought. bbm.
Yes, agreeing that if RT hired a PI to find her, it would tend to be seen as caring for missing spouse. Personally, I'm not seeing that as "legal action" so I was puzzled about meaning of post but am now following that idea.

What is unclear to me is RT's reason for hiring atty. Anyone w MisPers-spouse may hire atty to speak on their behalf ---
--- to the public/MSM, but that is a very expensive $$$ choice for that purpose, esp if solely for that purpose. As others said, victims' advocacy groups could also assist him w this, esp w soc. media outreach & activities.
--- to LE. Why? Perhaps to provide info to locate BT. Maybe not. The information LE seeks to find the MisPers could be, in some cases, the very same info that could incriminate the person giving it. A person hiring atty in this circumstance may or may not care for missing spouse.
jmo, on some possibilities.

 

[RANCH]

To me it means they do not think she was abducted and aren’t investigating it as such. I’m sure nothing can be ruled out 100% until she is found, but I think it’s as close as you can get to ruling it out at the moment.

I think it means they don't know for sure she was abducted.

If that's the case I hope they are still investigating the possibility that BT was abducted. JMO

 

[al66pine]

{{To highlight kkdj's post, I excised this from my post upthread ~10 min ago}}
Post by kkdj
"I would think if she had truly been abducted it wouldn't be RT's choice to not seek prosecution if she had been returned safely. That would be a serious criminal offense that a DA would prosecute once the kidnappers were realized."

@kkdj Thanks for your post. bbm. Agreeing - not RT's decision about whether to pursue or not pursue crim charges re abduction - if it happened. DA makes the choice, whether BT is 'returned safely' or not, and whether RT did or did not hire atty. jmo