CA - Elliot Rodger kills 6, injures 13 in Isla Vista, Near UC Santa Barbara, #2

[jjenny]

Who posts using their real name and photo? Pretty much everybody on facebook.

 

[CARIIS]

I have said if I ever go missing to please come here as soon as possible so I might have a chance of being found. I


wish we could find MAL 370!!

People here are super sleuthers lol.Some have even helped cases like the Dee Dee Moore case, the woman who was convicted of murdering Florida lottery winner Abraham Shakespeare,She even posted here. I have said if I ever go missing to please come here as soon as possible so I might have a chance of being found. I wish I was like a lot of the terrific sleuths we have on this site.

 

[Isabelle]

If he was autistic, he was very highly functioning.
I am not sure what would be the reason to have him in inpatient care (before his parents knew he was homicidal and suicidal)?

Agree and we really don't know what diagnosis, if any, he really had.

 

[CARIIS]

removed from society. Sounds like China, Russia, Iran, Iraq etc etc

It would seem obvious that this person had issues early on and they progressed at an alarming rate and intensity. It is also apparent that numerous people were aware of his perceptions or delusions.

Almost any of the reported, obvious and apparent problems are enough to have him "helped" or removed from society.

The only issue with that, is that the very ones that created this problem of no exit loop(civil libertarians, shrinks, and politicians) are the ones that can't seem to see a way to solve it.

ER is a classic example of over reliance on anti psychotic drugs and depending on society to just live with it rather than provide a more permanent solution.

 

[Tulessa]

I just finished reading his manifesto. Three hours! And a massive headache!

 

[PPKik]

Our mental health care system is a joke -- even mass murderer Elliot Rodger slipped through the cracks

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014...oke-even-mass-murderer-elliot-rodger-slipped/

During Sheriff Brown’s second press conference about Friday’s mass killing, he clearly implied that the purpose of a “wellness check” is to see whether someone is physically OK and has come to no harm.

That is untrue, and the sheriff had to know it. The truth is that a wellness check is performed when a mental health professional’s concern about a patient rises to such a fever pitch that he or she decides it is imperative to send police, on an emergency basis, to determine if that person should be evaluated by a psychiatrist right away – involuntarily, if need be.

Also from your link:

BBM

"Sheriff Brown never stated that his officers directly called the family members who had been panicked enough to alert Rodger’s therapist to his YouTube postings.

"To me, that suggests they never did any of those things.

"Sheriff Brown never stated that his officers directly contacted Rodger’s therapist, who might have told them that Rodger had refused to take antipsychotic medications, though his clinician(s) believed they were indicated.

"Sheriff Brown never stated that his officers looked at the concerning videos themselves (if they had been told about them, which is not yet confirmed).

I doubt they did this."


Although this is an opinion piece by Keith Ablow, a commentator for Fox News, he does raise serious questions most of us have; at least I do.

Did both the therapist and ER's parents call the Santa Barbara Sheriff's Office only after seeing or becoming aware of the videos? Most importantly, did they tell the cops about the videos? What exactly did the therapist and/ or the parents tell the cops?

In earlier reports the cops said they knew nothing about the videos. What did they think they were checking for, and why did the cops think they were there? Just to observe ER for a few minutes? How long were they there?

"Police interviewed Elliot Rodger and found him to be a 'perfectly polite, kind and wonderful human,' family attorney Alan Shifman said."

http://www.bakersfieldcalifornian.c...anta-Barbara-kills-7-wounds-at-least-7-others

Shifman is the family lawyer, so he is doing his spin. Where did he get "perfectly polite, kind and wonderful human being" from?

What did the cops really say, right after the so-called wellness check, to the parents and therapist? "Kind and wonderful human being" is not cop-speak or lawyer-speak (normally). Does anyone know where this came from or was it just Shifman's "interpretation"?

I'm really struggling to understand how this tragedy happened with apparently so many warnings, posted publicly, that at least family and therapist, if not friends, were aware of.

 

[CARIIS]

• If LE took him in most he could be kept is 72 hours. As an adult if he wants to be discharged he must be OR it can be taken to a judge. This is the criteria that must accompany a court ordered long term placement.

· Where a court or other competent tribunal finds that a person with mental illness is unable to manage his or her own affairs, measures shall be taken, so far as is necessary and appropriate to that person's condition, to ensure the protection of his or her interests.

The concept of manage owns affairs, for very long institutionalized , in a court of law focuses on these domains. Just like ER was able when LE came a month ago , he is high functioning to know to deny suicidal or homicidal. So now we are in court . He is asked do you want to kill yourself or others. He says no. The judge then must access the following to determine if the individual before him can manage his affairs as defined in the manner:

• .Feeding,Toileting,Selecting proper attire,Grooming,Maintaining continence,Putting on clothes Bathing,walking and transferring (such as moving from bed to wheelchair) Managing finances
• Handling transportation (driving or navigating public transit),Shopping,Preparing meals
• Using the telephone and other communication devices,Managing medications,Housework and basic home maintenance.

Now the judge sees a clean cut, well nourished,articulate, dressed well,oriented to time person place (knows his name, knows where he is at, knows the day of the week year, knows who is president( serious these are the questions and domains,), is living on his own in an apt, had some college history, owns a vehicle and can drive.is capable of cooking and cleaning his apt , knows how to use a phone, can manage his bowels and urination .

If ER got the three days. and refused to change to voluntary treatment no judge is going to (remember the scary video was the last night ) all the other videos were about lonliness, hating woman,being good looking . In the other videos there were no threats, he was admired pretty parks and disdaining woman. No judge is going to place him..

Judges that do the invol stuff are used MOSTLY to folks that come in with dirty clothes, a dash of doody on them , smell, have been sleeping in a box, don’t own a car, during the hearing start talking to the table, thinks Carter is president, know his date of birth, smells of alcohol, is unemployed, dropped off out school in the 8th grade, has an arrest history, and tried to stab someone 10 days ago and has no support system whatsoevr (family ).

No judge would have committed this guy to long term institutional involuntary placement. These are the laws. He did it with LE a month ago and in a court of law – would not happen. Just the way it works. Be honest with yourselves if you passed him on the street would you be frightened of him knowing nothing else?

• 
  
• 7. http://www.un-documents.net/pppmi.htm
• 
  
  http://www.caring.com/articles/activities-of-daily-living-what-are-adls-and-iadls

 

[CHERIE.T]

Also from your link:

BBM

"Sheriff Brown never stated that his officers directly called the family members who had been panicked enough to alert Rodger’s therapist to his YouTube postings.

"To me, that suggests they never did any of those things.

"Sheriff Brown never stated that his officers directly contacted Rodger’s therapist, who might have told them that Rodger had refused to take antipsychotic medications, though his clinician(s) believed they were indicated.

"Sheriff Brown never stated that his officers looked at the concerning videos themselves (if they had been told about them, which is not yet confirmed).

I doubt they did this."


Although this is an opinion piece by Keith Ablow, a commentator for Fox News, he does raise serious questions most of us have; at least I do.

Did both the therapist and ER's parents call the Santa Barbara Sheriff's Office only after seeing or becoming aware of the videos? Most importantly, did they tell the cops about the videos? What exactly did the therapist and/ or the parents tell the cops?

In earlier reports the cops said they knew nothing about the videos. What did they think they were checking for, and why did the cops think they were there? Just to observe ER for a few minutes? How long were they there?

"Police interviewed Elliot Rodger and found him to be a 'perfectly polite, kind and wonderful human,' family attorney Alan Shifman said."

http://www.bakersfieldcalifornian.c...anta-Barbara-kills-7-wounds-at-least-7-others

Shifman is the family lawyer, so he is doing his spin. Where did he get "perfectly polite, kind and wonderful human being" from?

What did the cops really say, right after the so-called wellness check, to the parents and therapist? "Kind and wonderful human being" is not cop-speak or lawyer-speak (normally). Does anyone know where this came from or was it just Shifman's "interpretation"?

I'm really struggling to understand how this tragedy happened with apparently so many warnings, posted publicly, that at least family and therapist, if not friends, were aware of.

Sadly, maybe it's simple............maybe no one took him seriously until it was too late.

 

[CARIIS]

Basically the therapist would state I have been seeing him , I have concerns about his safety and safety of other. When the clean cut person opened the door had some dialog in a reaaonable manner and denied any intent to kill himself or anyone else they have ruled out (face to face) any threats.

Also from your link:

BBM

"Sheriff Brown never stated that his officers directly called the family members who had been panicked enough to alert Rodger’s therapist to his YouTube postings.

"To me, that suggests they never did any of those things.

"Sheriff Brown never stated that his officers directly contacted Rodger’s therapist, who might have told them that Rodger had refused to take antipsychotic medications, though his clinician(s) believed they were indicated.

"Sheriff Brown never stated that his officers looked at the concerning videos themselves (if they had been told about them, which is not yet confirmed).

I doubt they did this."


Although this is an opinion piece by Keith Ablow, a commentator for Fox News, he does raise serious questions most of us have; at least I do.

Did both the therapist and ER's parents call the Santa Barbara Sheriff's Office only after seeing or becoming aware of the videos? Most importantly, did they tell the cops about the videos? What exactly did the therapist and/ or the parents tell the cops?

In earlier reports the cops said they knew nothing about the videos. What did they think they were checking for, and why did the cops think they were there? Just to observe ER for a few minutes? How long were they there?

"Police interviewed Elliot Rodger and found him to be a 'perfectly polite, kind and wonderful human,' family attorney Alan Shifman said."

http://www.bakersfieldcalifornian.c...anta-Barbara-kills-7-wounds-at-least-7-others

Shifman is the family lawyer, so he is doing his spin. Where did he get "perfectly polite, kind and wonderful human being" from?

What did the cops really say, right after the so-called wellness check, to the parents and therapist? "Kind and wonderful human being" is not cop-speak or lawyer-speak (normally). Does anyone know where this came from or was it just Shifman's "interpretation"?

I'm really struggling to understand how this tragedy happened with apparently so many warnings, posted publicly, that at least family and therapist, if not friends, were aware of.

 

[CARIIS]

I agree! when I first heard that I thought that was super odd - just odd

Sadly, maybe it's simple............maybe no one took him seriously until it was too late.

 

[PPKik]

http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2...eeds-autistic-mother-claimed-court-documents/

Elliot’s father questioned the autism diagnosis and stated in his own sworn declaration, “Though Li Chin Rodger claims in her court documents that Elliot is a high functioning autistic child, I was not involved in any prior evaluation of Elliot. Li Chin did not inform me about any evaluation of Elliot. This disturbed me greatly. I am now in the process of having Elliot evaluated by a child psychiatrist. Li Chin Rodger has agreed to be a part of the process.”

After reading the court documents in the link you provided, I have to ask an obvious question.

What did PR think was wrong with his son and why would he be "disturbed greatly"? Does this mean that prior to CR's having ER diagnosed, he had never been evaluated, treated, or diagnosed with anything?

PR thought nothing was wrong? This stinks of avoiding responsibility (then) and wanting to pay less child support. IMO

Does anyone know when PR got remarried?

“My father having a girlfriend so shortly after divorcing my mother didn’t even occur to me. I couldn’t understand it. Soon enough, though, I realized that Soumaya was, in fact, his ‘girlfriend,’ and they were together just like how my father and mother were together. It was the first time I learned the concept of a ‘girlfriend,’ and it was hard to grasp. Before that, I always thought a man and a woman had to be married before living together in such a manner, and that it would take a long time for such a union to happen. Father finding a new girlfriend in such a short amount of time baffled me. I was completely taken aback.”

["The Manifesto of Elliot Rodger," p. 11]

 

[Elley Mae]

Has anyone gotten a sense of how recent ER was playing the loud music in the middle of the night and disturbing his roommates? TIA

ETA: I just saw this:

“That guy was always playing music very loud in the middle of the night,” [SF] told KNTV-TV on Monday. “They complained to the manager of the apartment and they were planning to move out.”
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...d-young-student-from-ottawa-aspiring-painter/

* * *
Sounds like the loud music was an ongoing problem.

I happened upon that article as well. I am finding out more and more about Autism and I found that odd. In all that a have read and heard about Autism playing loud music does not seem to be something an Autistic person would do. I hope that made sense. Seemed strange to me.

 

[MsAnais]

The further I read into this drivel, the vague feeling of being fooled is becoming less vague. Something is telling me that this whole manifesto was part of his "ultimate retribution". Like a joke he's playing on the world. He wasn't stupid. He knew we would be pouring over it after his death. I feel like we've been had.

I'm not clear on exactly what I don't believe, but I think the whole thing is based on a lie. A scam. He's still manipulating people.

Whatever he's selling, I suddenly don't feel like buying.

I know you posted this a while back on the thread, Flutterby, but it's really stayed with me.:seeya:

What you've said there is exactly how I just felt when I watched his numerous YouTube videos.........I understand that the 'scripted' speech may be due to Aspergers, but I felt like there was something more than that. As I was watching it I just kept feeling that he was totally lying and playing a game for attention. None of what he was saying rang true to me.

Then I read your post and you articulated what I was feeling. I think you're right - he's still manipulating people.

Perhaps the one thing he was actually good at.:facepalm:

 

[SStarr33]

Group homes for mentally ill persons do not allow independent freedom of the residents. This from a home health RN.

ILI is a group home?

 

[SStarr33]

The apartment complex could not provide services, they would have to be licensed by Cal-DSS, regulated and subjected to yearly audits.

However the ILI may have a list of sympathetic apartment complexes who accept referrals from their program and accept a renter with the knowledge that they have the assistance of this program to help keep the client on top of paying bills, buying groceries, navigating transportation, etc.

It's not a foregone conclusion but it's possible. And most likely entirely irrelevant to the crimes he committed. Just another support system and entitlement he received but ultimately didn't use to improve himself.

Clearly the apt folks would not provide the services. We were talking about ILI.

 

[SStarr33]

ER's dad's attorney made the comment that the son lived in a community that provides care and support to disabled persons, aka group home for mentally ill with around the clock support/care staff. This was not correct information. ER lived in an apartment complex that catered to college students. IMO, the attorney was setting up damage control or was showing the sympathy card.

Do you have a link to the attorney making that comment?

Thanks.

 

[butwhatif?]

The further I read into this drivel, the vague feeling of being fooled is becoming less vague. Something is telling me that this whole manifesto was part of his "ultimate retribution". Like a joke he's playing on the world. He wasn't stupid. He knew we would be pouring over it after his death. I feel like we've been had.

I'm not clear on exactly what I don't believe, but I think the whole thing is based on a lie. A scam. He's still manipulating people.

Whatever he's selling, I suddenly don't feel like buying.

BBM.. This is exactly why I chose not to read it. I've read some of the excerpts and have seen some of it being paraphrased, and that was more than enough of a warning for me.

 

[bettybaby00]

After reading the court documents in the link you provided, I have to ask an obvious question.

What did PR think was wrong with his son and why would he be "disturbed greatly"? Does this mean that prior to CR's having ER diagnosed, he had never been evaluated, treated, or diagnosed with anything?

PR thought nothing was wrong? This stinks of avoiding responsibility (then) and wanting to pay less child support. IMO

Does anyone know when PR got remarried?

“My father having a girlfriend so shortly after divorcing my mother didn’t even occur to me. I couldn’t understand it. Soon enough, though, I realized that Soumaya was, in fact, his ‘girlfriend,’ and they were together just like how my father and mother were together. It was the first time I learned the concept of a ‘girlfriend,’ and it was hard to grasp. Before that, I always thought a man and a woman had to be married before living together in such a manner, and that it would take a long time for such a union to happen. Father finding a new girlfriend in such a short amount of time baffled me. I was completely taken aback.”

["The Manifesto of Elliot Rodger," p. 11]

I think the "greatly disturbed" comment was about not knowing he was evaluated for anything? That's how I read it.

But you bring up a very good question regarding what if anything dad believed was wrong with his son.

It would be interesting to learn about the evolution of his diagnosis.

For those who have read the manifesto: does he ever talk about being in therapy? Or that he was diagnosed with something?

 

[butwhatif?]

After reading the court documents in the link you provided, I have to ask an obvious question.

What did PR think was wrong with his son and why would he be "disturbed greatly"? Does this mean that prior to CR's having ER diagnosed, he had never been evaluated, treated, or diagnosed with anything?

RSBM

PR's declaration in the above-mentioned court document states that he was "greatly disturbed" by CR never having informed him (PR) of ER having any evaluation, let alone a firm dx of "a high functioning autistic child".

At face value and IMO, it looks like PR suspected CR had 'invented' the evaluation & diagnosis in order to get more financial support for their (then) 7 yr old son and 3 yr old daughter.
It will be interesting to see further court documents, because with this one alone, it appears that there hadn't been any such dx, since it notes that PR was in the process of having ER evaluated by a child psych, and that CR had agreed to pay for part of that process.

There would be no need for any of that if ER already had the evaluation and dx.

 

[Archangel7]

removed from society. Sounds like China, Russia, Iran, Iraq etc etc

Spoken like a lawyer, a shrink or a public aid worker.

No, again you are mistaken as to what I said. Are you advocating that nothing can be done? We just wring our hands and play shrink some more?

Due process is appropriate and needed after serious threats from some one whom has the ability to carry out those threats coupled with a lifetime of issues. The only real question is was it mental or all behavioral?

Removing a kook from society and institutionalizing them with professional staff is exactly what would have prevented this tragedy and possibly helped him recover or at least provide a safe environment for society.

Curious, what's your solution?