CA - Elliot Rodger kills 6, injures 13 in Isla Vista, Near UC Santa Barbara, #2

[Zuri]

Thank you for the insight. I'm projecting my own experience with anti-psychotics forgetting that I was compliant. I don't know what my psychiatrist would have done, if anything, if I hadn't been. My condition was different from ER though. I don't want to share too much, I just know there were concerns for the safety of myself and children. I was watched differently than ER seemed to have been.

I don't know how we fix this or that it even can be fixed. I feel it's a dangerous world when people are prescribed meds like anti-psychotics with the possibility of no follow up.

Chances are you were not doctor hopping and had continuity of care, plus a family that cared and supported you. You were set up for success.

IMO, it sounds as though ER had a lot of different providers and because he was between 2 parents' homes and IV, no one had a true grasp on his condition. If ER did not follow through and was non compliant, short of tying him to the car to get him there, it was a recipe for disaster.

Nothing makes a doctor's job harder than a patient who sees multiple providers for the same thing, and none of them know about the other.

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

I wonder what became of dad's intended psych eval. Of ER after these court hearings were held...

:waitasec:

I'm curious myself. I hope another evaluation was performed and dad and his attorney weren't just blowing hot air as happens in many divorce proceedings.

 

[Zuri]

That, too, struck me as very interesting...(if true)

"Nurse to the stars" mom wants to go right into directing?

:waitasec:

These docs were from 1999 when ER was 8. PR obviously wanted CR to go back to work so his support payment would be less. The title sure was misleading for sensationalism.

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

He didn't take creatine. The whole story was a hoax.

Yep, I saw that about 1 minute too late. :blushing:

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2014...son-is-gunman-in-deadly-isla-vista-shootings/

"Rodger was living with roommates at the Independent Living Institute in Santa Barbara, a facility that offers “living skills instruction to help adults with disabilities to live more independently in their communities,” according to the website."

This was erroneous reporting...

Some reporter or "source" may have confused the Independent Living Institute in Santa Barbara with a Living Skills Instruction Organization... Can't remember the exact name right now... But you will find the discrepancy in this reporting was hashed out in thread one...

And... Yes... Students with disabilities DO go to college...

and... NO... ER did not live at the Independent Living Institute in Santa Barbara...

HTH...:seeya:

 

[Bernina]

Facts:
ER killed 6 people
ER is dead
ER wounded 13 people
ER used his vehicle, at least 2 guns, and some type of sharp instrument(s) in his "rampage"
ER wrote a "Manifesto" and posted videos
ER lived at Capri Apartments

Of those "facts", ER's "Manifesto" could be, and probably is, utter delusion with a bit of self prophecy.

No one can factually state ER had Asperger's. The family "lawyer" is circling the wagons. I do not know of one situation where an individual with high functioning Asperger's is living on their own without the people in that individuals "circle" being told about it, roommates, teachers, co-workers, etc.

Think about that.

MSM is running with whatever person they can get in front of a camera or print in type. "15 minutes of Fame". They are hounding people named in the Manifesto that don't have a clue..........seriously, has anyone said ".......oh, and he had Aspergers...."? Not one "acquaintance", childhood "friend" has said "we knew he had Asperger's". No, it's coming from a "family lawyer".

The autopsy of ER hasn't been done. We don't know if he actually killed himself, or if in the exchange of gun fire, LE did it.

Risperidol? It is used in the treatment of Schizophrenia, Bipolar disorder, Dementia, Autism, Tourette syndrome, and Depression. That's a whole lot of mental illnesses. And who KNOWS if it was really prescribed?

"Occam's Razor", folks.

The only people who really know the truth aren't talking.

 

[Zuri]

Was Ann Hornaday's article from the Washington Post ever linked on here regarding ER and the movie "The Neighbors"?

 

[sfbaynancydrew]

I do not know of one situation where an individual with high functioning Asperger's is living on their own without the people in that individuals "circle" being told about it, roommates, teachers, co-workers,

Risperidol? It is used in the treatment of Schizophrenia, Bipolar disorder, Dementia, Autism, Tourette syndrome, and Depression. That's a whole lot of mental illnesses. And who KNOWS if it was really prescribed?

Your view of Aspergers is inaccurate. Many people living with Aspergers are 100% independent without an interdisciplinary team monitoring their everyday movements. It's possible that you just don't know many high functioning people with Aspergers and that's okay, just don't assume that your experience makes what you say fact.

Risperdal is an anti-psychotic and mood stabilizer. It's sort of the "new" Haldol, which, in it's time was the new Thorazine.

What people fail to grasp is that a person can be both autistic and psychotic. I worked with duel-diagnosed folks like this for years.

You can have Aspergers and be a psychopath.

You can be autistic and schizophrenic.

Mental illness does not discriminate against the developmentally disabled.

 

[ButForFortune]

I actually had wondered if he was in some sort of special ed program at UCSB, because his academic history sounded abysmal. I have a few friends who graduated from UCSB. It was NOT an easy school to get into--these were people with 4.0s, high SATs, extra curricular activities, glowing letters of recommendation etc and one was even put on the waiting list but managed to just squeak in. It's HIGHLY competitive among the best and brightest and this was back in the 90s before the budget crisis and huge funding cuts. I'm sure it's infinitely worse now.

I have found his admission into UCSB to be a head scratcher.

I don't think he was ever attending UCSB. He was attending City College (but mainly dropping all his classes if he saw a happy couple in one of them).

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

I just finished reading his manifesto. Three hours! And a massive headache!

Only 3 hours?

I am impressed! :bowdown:

It took me many more hours...

and I felt I had entered "Dante's Inferno"... :devil:

 

[lawstudent]

Facts:
ER killed 6 people
ER is dead
ER wounded 13 people
ER used his vehicle, at least 2 guns, and some type of sharp instrument(s) in his "rampage"
ER wrote a "Manifesto" and posted videos
ER lived at Capri Apartments

Of those "facts", ER's "Manifesto" could be, and probably is, utter delusion with a bit of self prophecy.

No one can factually state ER had Asperger's. The family "lawyer" is circling the wagons. I do not know of one situation where an individual with high functioning Asperger's is living on their own without the people in that individuals "circle" being told about it, roommates, teachers, co-workers, etc.

Think about that.

MSM is running with whatever person they can get in front of a camera or print in type. "15 minutes of Fame". They are hounding people named in the Manifesto that don't have a clue..........seriously, has anyone said ".......oh, and he had Aspergers...."? Not one "acquaintance", childhood "friend" has said "we knew he had Asperger's". No, it's coming from a "family lawyer".

The autopsy of ER hasn't been done. We don't know if he actually killed himself, or if in the exchange of gun fire, LE did it.

Risperidol? It is used in the treatment of Schizophrenia, Bipolar disorder, Dementia, Autism, Tourette syndrome, and Depression. That's a whole lot of mental illnesses. And who KNOWS if it was really prescribed?

"Occam's Razor", folks.

The only people who really know the truth aren't talking.

While as I said earlier the spectrum has gotten almost ridiculously broad, there are plenty of people who have been diagnosed who can live independently. If there are no cognitive deficits and the person is low on the spectrum, they might not have a great social life, but they can definitely care for themselves and work. And I would bet it was quite easy to pick up on by those around him that he had some sort of social functioning issue, whether it was Asperger's or not. I don't quite understand how the roommates ended up living with him, but plenty of people are placed with strange roommates without being told, or maybe they knew and decided to live with him anyway. A lot of guys I know seem to be very okay with living with very strange guys in order to split the rent more ways. Girls are more picky. If he mostly kept to himself, or problems didn't surface until later, he was certainly capable of arranging to live with roommates. College students are adults. No one has to be notified of anything unless they ask for special accommodations for the disability. I'm sure there are a great number of students on the autism spectrum living away at school, as well as students with schizophrenia, bipolar, etc. Professors only see them a few hours a week - many of them don't even know the students' names if it's a big school.

 

[Paladine]

Maybe, but it's impossible to say with any sort of certainty, so I think criticism of the parents is unfair.

I mean, this man had an entire worldview articulated - clearly one that was very, very troubled. Do you really think he would have responded to normal "threats"? I don't think he could control his perceptions much. If the car is gone and he doesn't want to take his meds, now he has an even smaller chance of getting the girl he wants and all that - but plenty of time to sit at home brooding and working on his manifesto. Plus, we have no knowledge of whether that medication even helped - we don't know why he stopped it or if he was on it long enough to know. People say "take your meds" like there is always an exact med that makes the person normal and they just hate taking them because they are evil. In reality, there are a bunch of meds, often with side effects, which have to be tried and may not help at all, or only some things, or make things worse. There are some legitimate reasons why some people drop meds, and meds wouldn't have helped them out (this is why it is hard to force meds on someone - the courts look at the side effects and inability to say if it will actually help). Of course, we will never know.

I really think the emphasis on money is misplaced in this case. His problems were much deeper than being entitled. Maybe cutting him off would have worked and he would have found some other interest and been reinvigorated by having to support himself, but maybe he would still have gone on a rampage. Maybe he would have just been threatening enough to be held and then gotten the help he needed. No one knows, and as you said, hindsight is 20/20.

I am biased. I take the med he refused to take and it changed my life. No, I never had violent thoughts but I did have intrusive thoughts that were negative and forced me into isolation; being around people would bring up too many thoughts then feelings of inferiority. I tried two other meds before Respiridone and respiridone worked. I am now social and no longer have a mind that won't quit.

I was anti-meds my whole life. I'd start a med and stop for fear of having chemicals in my body. Now, I am choosing a sane mind over a chemically free body. I obviously need them. Some people need meds and they can change lives. For ER, who knows. It's too late, now.

 

[jjenny]

Roommates were randomly assigned, they didn't have a choice in the matter.
He himself said so in his manifesto.

 

[SStarr33]

This was erroneous reporting...

Some reporter or "source" may have confused the Independent Living Institute in Santa Barbara with a Living Skills Instruction Organization... Can't remember the exact name right now... But you will find the discrepancy in this reporting was hashed out in thread one...

And... Yes... Students with disabilities DO go to college...

and... NO... ER did not live at the Independent Living Institute in Santa Barbara...

HTH...:seeya:

Yes, the fact that there is no proof of that has been talked about over and over in this thread.

 

[ButForFortune]

I'm curious myself. I hope another evaluation was performed and dad and his attorney weren't just blowing hot air as happens in many divorce proceedings.

It is possible that it was never followed up on. ER's father was also asking for joint custody (IIRC). That is a common ploy in order to get child support reduced, as percentage of time each parent has custody is taken into consideration when the child support is determined. So I am suspect of what the true intentions were here.

 

[Bernina]

Your view of Aspergers is inaccurate. Many people living with Aspergers are 100% independent without an interdisciplinary team monitoring their everyday movements. It's possible that you just don't know many high functioning people with Aspergers and that's okay, just don't assume that your experience makes what you say fact.

Risperdal is an anti-psychotic and mood stabilizer. It's sort of the "new" Haldol, which, in it's time was the new Thorazine.

What people fail to grasp is that a person can be both autistic and psychotic. I worked with duel-diagnosed folks like this for years.

You can have Aspergers and be a psychopath.

You can be autistic and schizophrenic.

Mental illness does not discriminate against the developmentally disabled.

BBM: You totally misread my post. I wrote " living on their own without the people in that individuals "circle" being told about it, roommates, teachers, co-workers, etc." NOT "interdisciplinary team monitoring their everyday movements". HUGE difference.

I am more than aware of Risperdol (sorry for typo on previous post), I was on it for chronic depression, very briefly(bad for me), and so was my 2nd ex-husband for schizoaffective disorder. (break it down: Bipolar and schizophrenia with psychosis.)

What people fail to grasp is that a person can be both autistic and psychotic. I worked with duel-diagnosed folks like this for years.

No, I think what people fail to grasp is that Autism isn't the "monster", it's the other half of that "duel diagnosis".

Preaching to the choir. I've been "In" the "mental health" system since 1989. My 2nd ex and current BF are also "In" the "mental health" system for just as long. Multiple diagnosis, not just duel.

"Asperger's" is just a red herring until someone who treated ER can publicly verify. The documentation from the divorce proceedings can only be looked as self serving until it has factual proof.

 

[Paladine]

Might be a repost, I don't have time to check, please forgive, if so. This a video of a friend talking about ER, met ER 7-10 times, he said "I knew it was him", after the shootings, referring to ER. Interesting. Dr. Drew is interviewing, please forgive me

http://www.hlntv.com/video/2014/05/27/elliot-rodger-isla-vista-shooting-friend-speaks-out

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Snipped

Is it just me? I'm feeling there may have been a failure(s) on the part of his therapists? Or maybe it was a lack of a "working together" as you've mentioned above that was sadly missing.

I don't have much experience with therapy, but isn't it a therapists responsibility to be mindful of a patient who may be showing signs of a capacity for violence?

I get he was highly manipulative, but it seems inconceivable to me that someone in therapy for so long would be able to successfully dupe his doctors for such an extended period of time. Did he switch doctors a lot? If so, wouldn't his records follow him?

Even though he was over 18, and technically his parents "loose" the right to be privy and/or involved with his medical/mental health treatment, but I would think that when you have a person who has been "treated" since being a young child, that the parents would remain involved with his treatment.

Maybe I'm naive, and have no clue. *shrugs*

Actually... I believe a therapist made an independent call to LE between the time of the Mom's call... And the actual "event"...

I will need to research... But this was discussed in thread one, as well..

maybe there is a poster here who can provide links supporting/not supporting of my thoughts above....?

TIA...:seeya:

**********************************************************************

Sorry to quote my own post... but I found a link...

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014...oke-even-mass-murderer-elliot-rodger-slipped/

Our mental health care system is a joke -- even mass murderer Elliot Rodger slipped through the cracks

"Last month, several weeks before Rodger killed six people and injured another 13, his family alerted his therapist to videos he had posted on YouTube. Those videos were disturbing enough to prompt his therapist to call a local community mental health center crisis team. The worker at that mental health center was concerned enough to contact police and instruct the police to visit Rodger to see if he posed an imminent risk of death to himself or others. And Santa Barbara county Sheriff Deputies did visit Rodger, spoke with him and then--inexplicably--just left."

BBM...

To clarify... it seems:

- Parents contacted therapist

- Therapist called local community mental health center crisis team

- Worker at that mental health center was concerned enough to contact police and instruct the police to visit Rodger to see if he posed an imminent risk of death to himself or others

- Santa Barbara County Sheriff Deputies did visit Rodger--- spoke with him--- left

Therefore....If above reports are true.. it seems like the therapist/health professional DID alert the LE to see if ER was an imminent threat to himself or others...


:waitasec: and....JMO

 

[Paladine]

Only 3 hours?

I am impressed! :bowdown:

It took me many more hours...

and I felt I had entered "Dante's Inferno"... :devil:

It took me 8 hours! And I was pretty much reading straight through...the last years, 16 and up, were pretty hard to take. I don't have anger or hate, hearing/reading it was mind-blowing. To actually know some people out there think like that makes the world a scarier place. So happy there's no one in my life like that. My heart really goes out to his friend James. He really stuck by that kid longer than anyone else could. I hope all his aquaintences/friends know that none of this was in their control. I hope they can all move on. I'd hate to see anymore lives affected.

 

[PPKik]

RSBM

PR's declaration in the above-mentioned court document states that he was "greatly disturbed" by CR never having informed him (PR) of ER having any evaluation, let alone a firm dx of "a high functioning autistic child".

At face value and IMO, it looks like PR suspected CR had 'invented' the evaluation & diagnosis in order to get more financial support for their (then) 7 yr old son and 3 yr old daughter.
It will be interesting to see further court documents, because with this one alone, it appears that there hadn't been any such dx, since it notes that PR was in the process of having ER evaluated by a child psych, and that CR had agreed to pay for part of that process.

There would be no need for any of that if ER already had the evaluation and dx.

Yes, I totally agree with all but your last sentence. It seems like PR suspected CR had "invented" all that for more child support, the way his response was worded in the court documents, but, what I found beyond perplexing is that PR said he was "greatly disturbed," as if he were hearing for the first time something was wrong with his son. ER was eight at that time.

Does anyone believe that until CR had this evaluation done, apparently during the divorce, that ER's parents, especially PR, had not noticed anything wrong? (IIRC, ER was obsessed with being blonde around this time, and his father took him to a hair salon to get his hair bleached, according to "The Manifesto.")

I think beyond wanting to know when ER began exhibiting "abnormal" behaviour, and what it was at that age, I'm wondering if RP was trying to distance himself from EP's problems and the expenses related to dealing with those problems, because he was about to get remarried and would have two household to (help) support. IMO.