CA CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 March 2018 #2

[DatelineFan]

In the previous thread, someone had said that since she never shows her teeth when she smiles, they believe she didn’t want her teeth fixed. I so strongly disagree. I don’t like my ears, and therefore never, ever wear my hair up in public, especially if I know pictures are going to be taken. I don’t even *love* wearing my hair up in front of loved ones when we are just chillin in the house. If I was completely comfortable with myself, I wouldn’t give a crap. But I do give a crap bc it’s an insecurity. Which leads me to believe her teeth are an insecurity for her and that’s why she rarely shows them.

I think I remember that post, and I think she actually meant she did want her teeth fixed, but was misunderstood. I could be wrong, though. Pretty sure it was bluesneakers

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[bears10]

I think I remember that post, and I think she actually meant she did want her teeth fixed, but was misunderstood. I could be wrong, though. Pretty sure it was bluesneakers

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Gotcha. That would make far more sense. I was baffled, so thanks for explaining

 

[Sleuth99]

Didn't Sarah have the child abuse case against her?? No school is going to hire you with that in your resume. I know someone that had that finding and is not allowed to work with children IN ANY setting now.

Yeppers!


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[DatelineFan]

In the previous thread, someone had said that since she never shows her teeth when she smiles, they believe she didn’t want her teeth fixed. I so strongly disagree. I don’t like my ears, and therefore never, ever wear my hair up in public, especially if I know pictures are going to be taken. I don’t even *love* wearing my hair up in front of loved ones when we are just chillin in the house. If I was completely comfortable with myself, I wouldn’t give a crap. But I do give a crap bc it’s an insecurity. Which leads me to believe her teeth are an insecurity for her and that’s why she rarely shows them.

Also, I bet no one is even half as critical of you as you are of yourself. Put your hair up when you want, and wear your ears with confidence! [emoji6][emoji8]

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[StephanieH]

I think this whole story just goes to show we don't know ANYONE.

I am absolutely seething over the cross burning story. Alec is a small city, and the community would have gathered around them in support. There would have been absolutely no reason for them to flee. But...I highly doubt there are enough extremists in Alexandria to even form a KKK group, but if there were, everyone would know them and they would be caught and prosecuted quickly. Seriously.

 

[bluesneakers]

I think I remember that post, and I think she actually meant she did want her teeth fixed, but was misunderstood. I could be wrong, though. Pretty sure it was bluesneakers

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It was me. I noticed it because my brother got his front teeth knocked out, and it's easy to tell when it happened simply by looking at old photo albums. The timeline goes: broad smile - tight smile - broad smile.

 

[keeleydoll]

I searched the hashtags on Instagram that you previously posted and it bothers me that the people (majority appear to know the family to some extent) who post in support of the hart family seem to only specifically hashtag/mention Devonte. I’m running on an hour of sleep and a lot of stress so i hope I don’t come across the wrong way. I just don’t understand why they single out one victim to pay tribute to and not any of the others. JMO

I totally agree. Either Devonte, the parents or the family as a whole. It is bizarre.


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[bears10]

Also, I bet no one is even half as critical of you as you are of yourself. Put your hair up when you want, and wear your ears with confidence! [emoji6][emoji8]

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Yes! I’m 31 but old insecurities die hard [emoji846] I never notice other people’s physical flaws, so rationally, I know no one gives a crap about mine! But I am also a big advocate on doing what makes you feel confident, so I fully support whatever people do to make themselves feel good, whether it’s makeup, wearing certain clothes, hair extensions, getting their nails done, etc etc etc.

And thank you ❤️

 

[Sleuth99]

It can't be dismissed that after Sarah/Jen lost control of her/their anger and the child abuse charges they "reached out" to Texas for another handful of victims.

Black hair care-Have you told that story to any of your black women (or men) friends?. Maybe "grade" is something specific and the lady in the store took your answer as too general, like "duh, she's black she has kinky hair" IDK I'd be curious to find out what "grade" means.

Bless you & yours by the way!

Grade refers to the type of coil a person has in there hair.. the closest to European hair texture or (curlier, easier to comb, loose curl, straight or wavy) the more someone considered that you had a "good grade of hair" bunch of nonsense leftover from systemic racism and selling of enslaved black folks word wide but that's southern terminology I believe that may have also migrated to the north


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[nothingnew]

I searched the hashtags on Instagram that you previously posted and it bothers me that the people (majority appear to know the family to some extent) who post in support of the hart family seem to only specifically hashtag/mention Devonte. I’m running on an hour of sleep and a lot of stress so i hope I don’t come across the wrong way. I just don’t understand why they single out one victim to pay tribute to and not any of the others. JMO

He was the "star" of the family, the "free hugs" boy from a horrible background (according to Jen) that was saved by these wonderful loving women. IMO he was chosen because he "fit the suit"-to borrow a Brady Bunch quote. Black, looked like Trayvon, "if Obama had a son.
The policeman picture bugged me at the time because he was SO young and in Portland surrounded by white people. I knew nothing about the family but I didn't like that the parents put him in the middle of all that. The thing I remember most was thinking "Portland?"

 

[Zelda1010]

That's a fair question, for sure.

ETA, I do wonder, though, at what point do you become a perpetrator if you are watching your children victimized for so many years?

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That is such a good question in so many cases.

The most dangerous time for an abuse victim is if and when they try to leave. It can be a choice btwn life and death to stay or go. Death may be almost certain if you try to save yourself or your children... the animalistic need for day-to-day survival may override the possible long-term benefit of leaving the abusive environment. Sometimes...maybe...imho.

 

[maggieo]

Kind of OT, but while the view looks incredible in pics, I feel a little anxious every time I see pics of the road they were driving on. I have a fear heights and do not think I’d be able to drive on that road for multiple reasons. Is this more of a scenic/touristy road or would it be a necessary roadway for locals to take?

I drove this exact route, from Seattle to Los Angeles, several years ago. There is another, faster highway further inland, and I believe this coastal road is mostly used by those looking for a scenic route, or else locals doing short hops. My boyfriend and I were driving in daylight along this stretch, albeit in a light rain, and let me tell you: I was petrified. You literally can't relax for a moment: it's one sharp curve after the next, and there's very little between you and those gorgeous cliffs. I can't imagine doing the whole stretch in a car filled with six teenagers. My nerves would be frayed in minutes.

 

[MINNESOTA-MOM]

I wish I could figure out how to post pictures. I got a picture of Jen’s FB before it was down. She explains everything the family was going through In June 2017. Can I copy and paste? I am on my iPad. I could post pictures before on different threads but I can’t now. Confused.

 

[Talulah]

Warning long and anecdotal. I just feel a lot for this family, they were so much like my own...and not.

In my experience, sometimes the black community is not very welcoming of white, transracially adoptive parents. I have lots of black friends and my children live in a diverse community, however, by in large there can be some issues.

Just yesterday I asked a black woman about product she was buying at the store because she bought a lot of it and I'm looking for something better for my child's hair. I told her I had a black daughter and she asked what grade of hair she had. I said thick tight curls and she said, "so she's black," which I had already mentioned, she turned away from me and walked away...didn't even say another word.

I also had a black friend offer to hang out with my kids without me, because he wanted them to know a good black man so they could marry one someday. He's a great guy but, I finally told my friend the approach was a little heavy handed. I didn't really like to leave my children alone with anyone that often and maybe just hanging out with all of us and being himself would give them a good impression of a good man, not necessarily a black one...for the purposes of marrying a black man, cause my kids are pretty young and color of their future partner isn't on their radar. He wanted to make sure they married a black man and I told him they should marry someone they love...whatever the color.

I mention this to say, I wouldn't readily accept a "forever friend" who wants to help. From the looks of things though the Harts had some black friends (or at least one) as the picture denotes. The community they are in (festival going free hug community) is the same community I'm in and there are lots of black women and men in the community, but they have to subscribe to the ideas of freedom, love, open warm inclusiveness...and that sometimes is a leap if you weren't raised to perceive the world that way. However it was at the Holi festival where our family met a bunch of black women who danced and hugged and played with us all day, just because they got what we were all about.

I wonder if the lack of support in their community like the warm welcome they got in the festival world were offered in their area, they would have reached out and gotten help...or not, maybe they were malicious, white saviors who just wanted to torture their kids.

When my child was seven (who I'd adopted from birth) tried to kill herself, broke my arm by body slamming me into a ditch and did things that were scary and dangerous, it took every ounce of courage I had to reach out to my community and risk being shamed, accused and criticized for not being a good enough mother to her to get her help. I gained sixty pounds, got a bleeding ulcer and was in general ill health because of the stress it caused. Luckily we were able to get her diagnosed, medicated, in therapy and she's doing great...after two years I finally have my little girl back. Imagine six kids or even two with severe issues and no help....wow, I can't even think of the stress that would cause and add control issues on top of that...these women needed support...these children needed services, therapy, another home perhaps. There is no shame in admitting your world isn't perfect, even if you wanted it to be.

I suspect she may have been testing you. The fact that she engaged at all after you said you had a black daughter then walked off in a huff after you didn't answer her question suggests to me she wanted to know how much you knew. https://blacknaps.org/know-your-hair-type/

MOO

 

[bluesneakers]

That's a fair question, for sure.

ETA, I do wonder, though, at what point do you become a perpetrator if you are watching your children victimized for so many years?

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It's even more difficult because even if it's easy to make the assumption we don't know if Sarah was a victim at all. It's not (afaik) like Jen was ever arrested or accused of domestic violence with Sarah as the victim.

 

[Cryptic]

They dressed normally at other times. I feel like they wanted the kids to stand out at the rallies.

Perhaps they were seeking attention, and thus dressed the children distinctly?

The desired media attention could have been simple acclaim from other participants at the rallies who would note that the family attended as a group, or perhaps even media attention from their actions at the rallies.

Another poster has made references that the parents claimed to have been targeted by the KKK who burned a cross by their home. Yet, there don't seem to be independent media accounts of the stated incident. Likewise, cross burnings by the KKK have gotten even rarer than the fashions that the children wore at rallies. Rarity, however, does not prove that the cross burning did not occur.

Even still, I am thinking of Jim Jones (cult leader / control freak). Jones would frequently make exaggerated statements about KKK violence to his largely black followers and even staged "KKK" attacks designed to frighten and un nerve group members. This, of course, made group members even more dependent on Jones and even more distrustful of outsiders.

 

[everybodhi]

That's a fair question, for sure.

ETA, I do wonder, though, at what point do you become a perpetrator if you are watching your children victimized for so many years?

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The victim learns to placate and protect and make excuses for their abuser, but the abuser has all the power. Abused women were held responsible for their own abuse, and staying, until we learned more about the psychology of victims of domestic abuse.

Keeping the family together is just one of the many reasons women stay with their abusers, even when the kids are abused.
Threatening to leave is also often when the abuser loses it and kills her.
It’s possible Sarah finally said no.

I admit, I have a hard time with women staying anytime their children are being abused by a partner because I would never, but I don’t have the low self esteem that it takes to stay with someone like that.
I would never allow myself to become that dependent on another person and would certainly not allow my children to be abused in any way, including missing a meal for punishment. I consider that abuse.
I didn’t spank but I know some people do, but leaving bruises on a child is never ok. It’s abuse.

I don’t know enough about these women to know their family dynamics but if they made a pact, together, to kill themselves and their entire family, it will be a much more unusual thing. Husband and wife, wife and wife, either way, it will be highly unusual if this is their profile as familial mass murderers.

Does anyone know of another case where a couple murdered their family, together?
I don’t, but realize there’s also a first time for everything.

Domestic Violence: Reasons Why Battered Victims Stay With the Batterers

 

[bears10]

I drove this exact route, from Seattle to Los Angeles, several years ago. There is another, faster highway further inland, and I believe this coastal road is mostly used by those looking for a scenic route, or else locals doing short hops. My boyfriend and I were driving in daylight along this stretch, albeit in a light rain, and let me tell you: I was petrified. You literally can't relax for a moment: it's one sharp curve after the next, and there's very little between you and those gorgeous cliffs. I can't imagine doing the whole stretch in a car filled with six teenagers. My nerves would be frayed in minutes.

Thank you for sharing your experience. I’m sorry you were petrified but I’m glad that I’m not crazy for feeling anxious about that highway. I truly do not think I could drive or be a passenger on that road without a sedative ha. Well only a sedative if I was a passenger obviously. God forbid someone coming from the opposite direction is drunk, or texting, or just loses control of their car. Where are the guard rails? It just seems so unsafe. But I’m glad to hear there is a more reasonable route. I couldn’t imagine having to drive on that scary road every day to get to and from work.

 

[DatelineFan]

It's even more difficult because even if it's easy to make the assumption we don't know if Sarah was a victim at all. It's not (afaik) like Jen was ever arrested or accused of domestic violence with Sarah as the victim.

Right. I'm not assuming she was a victim. In my opinion, she's just as guilty at this point.

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[DatelineFan]

The victim learns to placate and protect and make excuses for their abuser, but the abuser has all the power. Abused women were held responsible for their own abuse, and staying, until we learned more about the psychology of victims of domestic abuse.

Keeping the family together is just one of the many reasons women stay with their abusers, even when the kids are abused.
Threatening to leave is also often when the abuser loses it and kills her.
It’s possible Sarah finally said no.

I admit, I have a hard time with women staying anytime their children are being abused by a partner because I would never, but I don’t have the low self esteem that it takes to stay with someone like that.
I would never allow myself to become that dependent on another person and would certainly not allow my children to be abused in any way, including missing a meal for punishment. I consider that abuse.
I didn’t spank but I know some people do, but leaving bruises on a child is never ok. It’s abuse.

I don’t know enough about these women to know their family dynamics but if they made a pact, together, to kill themselves and their entire family, it will be a much more unusual thing. Husband and wife, wife and wife, either way, it will be highly unusual if this is their profile as familial mass murderers.

Does anyone know of another case where a couple murdered their family, together?
I don’t, but realize there’s also a first time for everything.

Domestic Violence: Reasons Why Battered Victims Stay With the Batterers

Yeah, I have a hard time with it, too. And we have no evidence that she was abused in this situation anyway.

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