CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #19

[oceanblueeyes]

This is the USA, like it or not, a defendant is INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT. Fortunately, it takes more than public opinion to convict someone of a crime. If CM is acquitted it will be interesting to see whether the same people who hate CM exhibit the same disdain for the actual perpetrator(s). So far everyone who has been mentioned as receiving business, financial, legal, etc. benefit from the disappearance of the family has been given a free pass. If a new POI is considered, following a hung jury, mistrial or acquittal, it will be interesting to observe whether the same venom will spewed toward them. Justice has rarely been properly served by a lynch mob mentality. Fortunately, there are 12 fair and impartial jurors deciding the fate of CM. jmvho

IUPG only applies to CMs jury before the first witness takes the stand. It can beginning to erode at anytime based on witness testimonies.

Im confused. So you think the state will have a completely new POI if its a hung jury? Based on what? Why? Who? Do you have another case where that has happened? Tia

Imo if it ends in a hung jury they will do like they always do when any hung jury trial happens, and will retry the defendant. Imo it will happen much quicker within months, and not years.

Imo

 

[HelenK]

"The look of confusion and disbelief" could only be caught at the first moment when being told you are arrested for a murder (even that is questionable, if one had sensed and prepared in advance he could become a scapegoat from what had been happening). After that, you feel anger and powerlessness, which I did see from CM's face in several pictures. I've never seen a sign on his face indicative of guilt (that is, if you want to make judgment of guilt/innocence just from facial expressions).

bbm

Powerlessness and Merritt do not equate.

<modsnip> That's because in his warped mind he is not guilty of anything. The murdered McStays made him do what he did. It's all their fault.

 

[travelbug]

Im confused. So you think the state will have a completely new POI if its a hung jury? Based on what? Why? Who? Do you have another case where that has happened? Tia

Of course circumstantial evidence can result in a conviction, I have never disputed that fact. However, my observation of responses from many posters leaves me believing their fair and impartial consideration of the evidence stopped after the judge ruled the PT case could go forward. Many of the critical points made by the PT in their OS have been successfully challenged by the DT witnesses. As a result of some recent testimony the PT is even considering changing the date of the disappearance. If that happens that puts in doubt all PT evidence connected to the evening of 2/4/10. There may have been others (and not CM) who might be placed at the scene of the disappearance if the date is changed. The PT has not yet proven the location of the murders. We know it's possible that other vehicles can be traced to the Fallbrook house during the 4th-6th time period. I also listened as the judge stated the PT shouldn't be pushing for a mistrial when McGee and Maline requested a delay, because it would not be beneficial to their side. I have listened and watched all testimony available from both sides. No one has proven to me that CM murdered the 4 McStay family members. It doesn't matter what my opinion is, however I don't believe I am the only person who has this doubt. moo

 

[la2cabo]

"I also listened as the judge stated the PT shouldn't be pushing for a mistrial when McGee and Maline requested a delay, because it would not be beneficial to their side." I have listened and watched all testimony available from both sides. No one has proven to me that CM murdered the 4 McStay family members. It doesn't matter what my opinion is, however I don't believe I am the only person who has this doubt. moo

****************************************************************
Snipped and BBM

I don't think the Judge can possibly know how a mistrial could or could not be beneficial to either side. The Judge is not the jury and should have no insight as to what verdict they're going to render.

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding what you posted...

 

[thespeculator]

I've wondered if Chase was a "Robin Hood" of sorts for the Merritt clan, stealing from the "rich" to give to his "poor" loser kin. Was he gifted in a way that his siblings were not, having the right combination of con man savvy, physical strength, and being enough of a psychopath to "git 'er done" at any cost in the name of the Merritt family, who have suffered so many "social injustices" and being so "disadvantaged" compared to those who have worked hard for what they have?

 

[travelbug]

I don't think the Judge can possibly know how a mistrial could or could not be beneficial to either side. The Judge is not the jury and should have no insight as to what verdict they're going to render.

I don't believe my post formed any conclusion, one way or the other, I was simply reiterating the words Judge Smith said to the PT. You are, however, overlooking the fact that in the event of a mistrial there are conditions that could allow for the judge to enter a ruling. NONE OF US, have any idea what the Judge is thinking. All we know is that he has been paying very careful attention to the evidence and witnesses for both sides and, historically, he just made multiple rulings during the Colonies mistrials. moo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

As for others who believe the state hasn't met their burden of proof or thinks CM is innocent, those same opinions have happened in every case I've ever followed here for more than 15 years now, and on other social media crime blogs where some held these same opinions.

It just wouldnt be WS if there weren't any posters who believe a defendant is innocent nor those who say the burden of proof hasn't been met.

What it has shown me over the many years of being here is what we believe or dont believe about any murder trial defendant we may follow its not a predictor indicator nor is it representative of how any jury decides/ed a verdict of guilt or NG.

If it truly was an indicator of anything then every murder trial would result in a hung jury, which doesn't happen the vast majority of time, and the verdicts rendered have been unanimous.

Jmoo

 

[la2cabo]

I wish the PT could bring up Merritt's past as it would be an eye opener for the jury. The 2 time felon was a horrible person and father before he was arrested for the murders. Once he's convicted I'm hopeful the flood gates will open and everyone will see the real Charles Ray Merritt.

 

[LadyL]

This is the USA, like it or not, a defendant is INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT. Fortunately, it takes more than public opinion to convict someone of a crime. If CM is acquitted it will be interesting to see whether the same people who hate CM exhibit the same disdain for the actual perpetrator(s). So far everyone who has been mentioned as receiving business, financial, legal, etc. benefit from the disappearance of the family has been given a free pass. If a new POI is considered, following a hung jury, mistrial or acquittal, it will be interesting to observe whether the same venom will spewed toward them. Justice has rarely been properly served by a lynch mob mentality. Fortunately, there are 12 fair and impartial jurors deciding the fate of CM. jmvho

(bbm)

free pass by who
we cant speculate or insinuate about people not on trial
thats the WS rules
I dont see a lynch mob here but I do see a lot of people sickened by what the evidence has revealed Merritt to be

 

[travelbug]

I wish the PT could bring up Merritt's past as it would be an eye opener for the jury. The 2 time felon was a horrible person and father before he was arrested for the murders. Once he's convicted I'm hopeful the flood gates will open and everyone will see the real Charles Ray Merritt.

I feel the same way about the assortment of people who were associated with Joey. Whether CM is convicted or not the truth and rumors surrounding many others has now been made public. The lives of those people will never be the same after this trial is complete. jmo

 

[LadyL]

Of course circumstantial evidence can result in a conviction, I have never disputed that fact. However, my observation of responses from many posters leaves me believing their fair and impartial consideration of the evidence stopped after the judge ruled the PT case could go forward. Many of the critical points made by the PT in their OS have been successfully challenged by the DT witnesses. As a result of some recent testimony the PT is even considering changing the date of the disappearance. If that happens that puts in doubt all PT evidence connected to the evening of 2/4/10. There may have been others (and not CM) who might be placed at the scene of the disappearance if the date is changed. The PT has not yet proven the location of the murders. We know it's possible that other vehicles can be traced to the Fallbrook house during the 4th-6th time period. I also listened as the judge stated the PT shouldn't be pushing for a mistrial when McGee and Maline requested a delay, because it would not be beneficial to their side. I have listened and watched all testimony available from both sides. No one has proven to me that CM murdered the 4 McStay family members. It doesn't matter what my opinion is, however I don't believe I am the only person who has this doubt. moo

(bbm)

I missed where they said this.
Can you post it thanks.

 

[travelbug]

(bbm)

free pass by who
we cant speculate or insinuate about people not on trial
thats the WS rules
I dont see a lynch mob here but I do see a lot of people sickened by what the evidence has revealed Merritt to be

I don't speculate or insinuate, I am a fact based person. It's not my responsibility to name every witness that has been called by either side. If everyone paid careful attention to the testimony from witnesses on both sides of the trial they would already have additional questions or knowledge based upon the testimony. There were countless objections and an equal number of disputed facts and/or events attributable to both sides. The jurors will be basing their verdict on every nuance, word, mannerism, and the perceived honesty of each witness. Each of them, just like each of us will, or already have, formed our opinion. There is always positive and/or negative perception following public statements. jmo

 

[travelbug]

(bbm)

I missed where they said this.
Can you post it thanks.

It was discussed by several posters several pages back. It was not my theory, perhaps Force or Cabo can help you find it. I considered it hearsay. jmo

 

[Sillybilly]

Many posts and responses have been removed due to general bickering and discussing CM's children.

When there are a number of posts being removed, we don't have time to extend the courtesy of going through all subsequent posts to edit. Unfortunately some good info may have been lost in the process.

 

[Bernina]

CM has no solid alibi for the dates in question, only contradictory statements by himself and others, through LE interviews and testimony heard in court.

The DT gave "alternative facts" with paid witnesses, they claim"believe us when we say the phone records are correct for DK, but don't believe the phone records are correct for CM."
You can't have it both ways.
CM was tired, he was in the clubhouse, "I don't know where he was". Which is it?
"The last time I was out to the high desert or my sister's was a year ago", "I was with my brother and sister on the 6th of Feb 2010."
Again, you can't have it both ways.
Etc., etc., ad nauseum.

 

[LadyL]

delete after seeing mod post about bickering

 

[la2cabo]

I feel the same way about the assortment of people who were associated with Joey. Whether CM is convicted or not the truth and rumors surrounding many others has now been made public. The lives of those people will never be the same after this trial is complete. jmo

There's definitely no shortage of rumors and people will have to form their own conclusions as to the veracity of the rumors.

 

[Force Ten]

It was discussed by several posters several pages back. It was not my theory, perhaps Force or Cabo can help you find it. I considered it hearsay. jmo

I don't recall where the Prosecution has changed their position on the date.

 

[smr]

(bbm)

I missed where they said this.
Can you post it thanks.

I don't recall where the Prosecution has changed their position on the date.

For those of you who forgot or missed the fact that PT changed the date of disappearance from the 4th to the 5th, it's in this testimony, from 34:07 :

Also see CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #17

Quote:
Cathy Russon‏ @cathyrusson 1h1 hour ago
#McStay - Daugherty: Let's assume the family was murdered the night of the 4th or the early morning hours of the 5th. If a person between 7am and 10:15 was unaccounted for that would be 3 hours 15 mins that they could potentially clean up, correct?

 

[missy1974]

(bbm)

I missed where they said this.
Can you post it thanks.

It was discussed by several posters several pages back. It was not my theory, perhaps Force or Cabo can help you find it. I considered it hearsay. jmo

It was said during questioning of Beasley. Daugherty says "lets assume they were murdered the evening of the 4th or the early morning hours of the 5th..." and then asked if someone was unaccounted for from 7am-10:15am, that would be 3 hours and 15 minutes that they could clean up...objection/sustained... Then asked him how long it would take to clean up.

around the 34:00 of this video: