CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #2

[Seni]

Would lightening strike injuries show up on autopsy? Wouldn’t there be burned clothing and/ or hair?

Hi Tink,

Somewhere on the previous thread I posted a link illustrating that lightning strikes do not always leave a trace, whether visible or internal.

 

[rahod1]

Hi Tink,

Somewhere on the previous thread I posted a link illustrating that lightning strikes do not always leave a trace, whether visible or internal.

Girl struck by lightning on sunny day.

So it's possible even in sunny weather. I would put this farther down the list compared to heat stroke, given the conditions in which they were found>>VERY HOT ON A STEEP SLOPE<< with father seated and separated from child's back pack.

 

[Seni]

But we don't know it was a Camelbak brand.... I hate to narrow the possibilities as we are developing scenarios. LE referred to the water carrier as a bladder. This leaves open the possibility that the volume was much higher than the kind of bladder you stick in your pack that has a hose running out of it. Camelbak is a common brand for these. And, yes, they do max out at 3L because they otherwise get too long for the length of your pack.
It's possible the couple had a bladder that was a big 'ol water bag. I didn't interpret it that way (I interpreted it the way you did), but don't want to make assumptions.
This is crucial, since if the bladder was substantially higher in volume than a Camelbak-type bladder, the couple evidently planned for a long hike.

For the good of the order, the brand "Camelbak" is often used as a synonym for "bladder", the way Kleenex is used for tissue or Hoover for vaccum.

Maybe I'm stuck in my habits, but I much prefer taking my stainless steel water bottles, which I can hook to my backpack or stick inside, and take a break every now and then to have a calm drink.

With the Camelbak I would sip without really needing the water, only to be unpleasantly surprised at how little I had left!

Also was never really convinced about being able to clean the tube properly.

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

The largest percentage of deaths for years have been consistently attributable to three things: lack of knowledge, lack of experience, and poor judgment. In fact, deaths related to lack of knowledge and experience by far outnumber deaths attributed to falls.

What's Killing America's Hikers? - SkyAboveUs

 

[JustReading01]

Public content created by the Mariposa Trail group for their/volunteers use.

Be sure to also scroll all the way down and check mark, "trail conditions and needs."

www.MariposaTrails.org - Google My Maps

He would have had access to uptown date information on the trail.

Also note that there is a campsite just off the trail at the bottom. [Just interesting.]

 

[JustReading01]

Jon joined the Mariposa Trail Facebook group two months ago.

His Facebook page: Log into Facebook

 

[woods]

Authorities believe the family left for their hike during an extreme heat day with temperatures between 103 and 109 degrees in the afternoon, under smoky conditions caused by another historic wildfire season. The 2018 Ferguson Fire burned down much of the vegetation along the trail, eliminating most shade along the grueling, 8.5-mile steep loop.
The family on a hike. The runner who never came home. Are their deaths tied to climate change?

 

[RedHaus]

Found this trail map. All three legs of the loop are shown with respective distances. I get a total of 6.7Mi. 2.1 Hites Cove 1.8 South Fork Merced 2.8 Lundy Savage.
Lundy Savage FAIRLY STEEP with around 1700FT (+/-) elevation change.

Map

And it's interesting @rahod1, that two 'roads/trails' are labeled "Hites Cove" so I can see how confusion could occur... which is "... Trail", which is "...Road".

Is it worth revisiting whether JG (since he presumably did on line scouting the day / night before, per LE) misinterpreted the map and the ended up on a trail they did not intend to go down (Lundy Savage)? That may be another reason to explain why they may have gone down, say half way and turned around before sadly dying.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

I'm as curious as anyone else about which route they took, but all in all I don't see it as key to understanding what happened -- the Hite Cove Trail is just as hot and just as lacking in shade as Savage-Lundy. The gradient might be a bit gentler but that is not what caused their deaths, IMHO.

 

[Seattle1]

Matthias Gafni@mgafni

NEW: The mystery only deepens on what killed an entire family & their dog. I spoke to sheriff and spent time in Mariposa County. https://sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Not-one-clue-The-mystery-is-only-deepening-16401921.php…
@sfchronicle


'Not one clue': The mystery is only deepening around the family found dead on a Sierra trail There are no obvious signs of trauma or notes indicating troubles for the family who died...
sfchronicle.com

6:21 PM · Aug 20, 2021

Matthias Gafni@mgafni

Replying to
@*****
Spoke to Fernanda Bray who went with her husband and two sons to the south fork of Merced River couple weeks ago & took these pics of toxic bacteria bloom on banks. https://sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Not-one-clue-The-mystery-is-only-deepening-16401921.php…




7:16 PM · Aug 20, 2021·

Matthias Gafni@mgafni

Replying to
@mgafni
Spoke to biology professor who said freshwater bacteria likely Anatoxin-a, also known as Very Fast Death Factor (seriously), that can kill dogs & possibly humans, although very rare. Investigators are getting water samples tested.
7:20 PM · Aug 20, 2021

Replying to
@mgafni
Sheriff told me Gerrish had his cell phone in front right pocket & was seated on trail. Rest of family very close by. Investigators trying to access phone for clues. No cell coverage there. Testing little bit of water left in camelpack.
7:22 PM · Aug 20, 2021·

Replying to
@mgafni
Such a tragic story. They made fast friends in the area. Sheriff believes they were in last 1.5 miles of hike heading back up switchbacks to truck. Temps were 107-109 degrees on day they hiked.

7:25 PM · Aug 20, 2021·

Matthias Gafni@mgafni

Replying to
@mgafni
With the help of the Mariposa sheriff, we were able to create a more accurate map of the suspected hike the family took. And sadly where they were found. https://sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Not-one-clue-The-mystery-is-only-deepening-16401921.php…



7:31 PM · Aug 20, 2021

 

[rahod1]

And it's interesting @rahod1, that two 'roads/trails' are labeled "Hites Cove" so I can see how confusion could occur... which is "... Trail", which is "...Road".

Is it worth revisiting whether JG (since he presumably did on line scouting the day / night before, per LE) misinterpreted the map and the ended up on a trail they did not intend to go down (Lundy Savage)? That may be another reason to explain why they may have gone down, say half way and turned around before sadly dying.

This is a definite possibility. I would think going down half way is not a scenario though, since that's where they were found facing going back up. The down hill trek would have been relatively *easy* and I don't see traveling 1.5 miles down hill as a problem, so they shouldn't have succumbed at that point. More likely they went all the way down to the river and decided to go back the same way (either as planned or change of plans for full loop). The 3mi back up was a *killer* in the heat and they only made it half way up.

 

[rahod1]

Matthias Gafni@mgafni

NEW: The mystery only deepens on what killed an entire family & their dog. I spoke to sheriff and spent time in Mariposa County. https://sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Not-one-clue-The-mystery-is-only-deepening-16401921.php…
@sfchronicle


'Not one clue': The mystery is only deepening around the family found dead on a Sierra trail There are no obvious signs of trauma or notes indicating troubles for the family who died...
sfchronicle.com

6:21 PM · Aug 20, 2021

Matthias Gafni@mgafni

Replying to
@*****
Spoke to Fernanda Bray who went with her husband and two sons to the south fork of Merced River couple weeks ago & took these pics of toxic bacteria bloom on banks. https://sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Not-one-clue-The-mystery-is-only-deepening-16401921.php…




7:16 PM · Aug 20, 2021·

Matthias Gafni@mgafni

Replying to
@mgafni
Spoke to biology professor who said freshwater bacteria likely Anatoxin-a, also known as Very Fast Death Factor (seriously), that can kill dogs & possibly humans, although very rare. Investigators are getting water samples tested.
7:20 PM · Aug 20, 2021

Replying to
@mgafni
Sheriff told me Gerrish had his cell phone in front right pocket & was seated on trail. Rest of family very close by. Investigators trying to access phone for clues. No cell coverage there. Testing little bit of water left in camelpack.
7:22 PM · Aug 20, 2021·

Replying to
@mgafni
Such a tragic story. They made fast friends in the area. Sheriff believes they were in last 1.5 miles of hike heading back up switchbacks to truck. Temps were 107-109 degrees on day they hiked.

7:25 PM · Aug 20, 2021·

Matthias Gafni@mgafni

Replying to
@mgafni
With the help of the Mariposa sheriff, we were able to create a more accurate map of the suspected hike the family took. And sadly where they were found. https://sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Not-one-clue-The-mystery-is-only-deepening-16401921.php…



7:31 PM · Aug 20, 2021

That MAP has been around for some time and is a product of SF Chronicle.

 

[Seni]

I just can´t get over taking a baby on this hike.

Many years of hiking and expeditions, some very long (weeks sometimes) in the Amazon, difficult conditions in many respects. I could do it whilst pregnant - taking care not to lift heavy stuff, but otherwise fine.

But babies are something else, however well you manage to carry them.

They need their comfort zone, their routines and so do you. A walk in the park, to the corner store is adventure enough.

More than half an hour in a carrier in searing heat and they would be uncomfortable and protesting.

By the time they are three years old and like walking - for a short while - looking at flowers and animals is when you can start getting them involved.

IME + IMO

 

[RickshawFan]

I’m inclined to believe the Chronicle about the loop as IMO they’ve been doing excellent and thorough coverage of this case. As a mom, I can see how if they’d done a couple of 5ish-mile hikes earlier in the summer with baby (pure speculation) they would feel confident they could try 8.5 (EDIT: or 7mi or whatever it was!) Perhaps the baby would nap in the carrier for some of that time. Or they just went the wrong way, meaning to do Savage-Lundy first. The other thing that leads me to believe the Chron map is right is that SAR seemed to have gone clockwise before finding them in the middle of Savage-Lundy. At least, finding them at 11am and some other media descriptions of the search suggested to me they went clockwise around the loop. All MOO, and correct me if that last bit sounds wrong.

Oh and welcome @RedHaus!

I had another random thought today. So random, but since this case broke I’ve kept thinking of a segment in the podcast Locations Unknown where the hosts talk about hiking in jeans: Don’t do it, was the gist. They discuss a disappearance where a woman was attempting a huge hike to Mt. Katahdin in jeans. She was never found. Their point being that her attire and other details suggested ill-preparedness. I have noticed quite a few pictures of the couple in pretty casual attire while hiking, and with utmost respect to them, I am circling back to the notion that up until 2019, they lived in SF, something a few of you have pointed out before as a factor. Sure, they’d been to far-flung and hot places, but I wonder if their backgrounds in the cities and a sort of cavalier, “Hey, this is our backyard” attitude about Mariposa just did not serve them well on the day they perished. They were prepared, but not that prepared. They were feeling adventurous—too adventurous for conditions that in five or ten years they may have become all too wary of.

Never hike in jeans. They’re a notorious death trap.

IIRC when LE was searching at night with flashlights, they were on a road. They specifically requested SAR and a helicopter to check the switchbacks the next day. That was their first request. Priority. That tells me they were not focused on the loop at all.
This all made sense to me, since a few quickly-mustered LE could sort of “search” a dirt road, but when they came to the switchbacks, that was for SAR.

 

[Seattle1]

That MAP has been around for some time and is a product of SF Chronicle.

Yes and thanks @rahod1.
The MAP is properly credited exactly as tweeted by SF Chronicle reporter Matthias Gafni on 8/20/21 at 7:31 pm PT. It's also better than the MAP he tweeted on 8/19/21 at 9:28 pm PT.

 

[rahod1]

I'm as curious as anyone else about which route they took, but all in all I don't see it as key to understanding what happened -- the Hite Cove Trail is just as hot and just as lacking in shade as Savage-Lundy. The gradient might be a bit gentler but that is not what caused their deaths, IMHO.

Agree... There are only 3 scenarios>>>1) They initially took Hite Cove for the full loop or 2) They attempted a down and back on the Savage Lundy 3) They aborted a counter clock wise loop (going down Savage Lundy for the loop) and turned BACK up Savage Lundy. One thing we DO KNOW>>They were going BACK UP Savage Lundy when they perished.

 

[RickshawFan]

Maybe I'm stuck in my habits, but I much prefer taking my stainless steel water bottles, which I can hook to my backpack or stick inside, and take a break every now and then to have a calm drink.

With the Camelbak I would sip without really needing the water, only to be unpleasantly surprised at how little I had left!

Also was never really convinced about being able to clean the tube properly.

Yep, hikers drink more when they have a Camelbak, because they don’t have to stop to get the bottle out, and then delay delay delay because they don’t want to stop.

But this is a matter of preference.

After the first time I used a Camelbak, that’s all I ever used, but I also had an adapter for the hose. My filter hose attached to it. I could pump filtered water into the bladder up the hose, so I never had to filled around with getting the bladder out of the pack.

Regarding the tube, it helps to empty it completely before not using it.

 

[rahod1]

Yep, hikers drink more when they have a Camelbak, because they don’t have to stop to get the bottle out, and then delay delay delay because they don’t want to stop.

But this is a matter of preference.

After the first time I used a Camelbak, that’s all I ever used, but I also had an adapter for the hose. My filter hose attached to it. I could pump filtered water into the bladder up the hose, so I never had to filled around with getting the bladder out of the pack.

Regarding the tube, it helps to empty it completely before not using it.

Thanks for the info Question>>> If all they had was the bladder (father had access?), how did they plan on providing water for the mother...infant and dog? I imagine it would be tedious unless they had additional sources??

 

[RickshawFan]

I wonder where their bladder lined backpack was located?

Not lined. The bladder stands upright against the back inside the pack because it’s heavy, often the heaviest thing in your pack. It is right at your core.

 

[RickshawFan]

Thanks for the info Question>>> If all they had was the bladder (father had access?), how did they plan on providing water for the mother...infant and dog? I imagine it would be tedious unless they had additional sources??

They planned a short trip and took enough water for it. That’s the only thing that makes sense to me here.