GUILTY CA - Lydia Schatz, 7, beaten to death, sister injured, Paradise, 5 Feb 2010

[Missizzy]

Stated far more eloquently than my posts:

http://blogs.alternet.org/vyckie/

In Micheal Pearl’s world, Lydia Shatz is better dead than spelling that word wrong

"They were trafficking Liberian children for the glory of God’s kingdom. And, they were preying upon highly Conservative, Patriarchal, Evangelical and often Quiverful families … These children adopted from Liberia are survivors. They do NOT ’submit’. They fake it, but they don’t mean it in their hearts. And, Pearl flat-out says to BEAT THEM AGAIN, make their heart reflect submission. Hit them over and over and over again until their heart complies to what you want, or you will condemn them to the pits of Hell if you don’t."


IMO, an excellent expose.

 

[PorcineGranny]

I'm just in shock that people read this, believe it, do it. What insanity!!!!!!!!!!

 

[LCoastMom]

Adoption is a very personal journey made by a person or a couple seeking a child to raise for their own selfish reasons. The same reason we make babies--to fill our desire to love and be loved. Leave the foreign children in their countries of origin and send your donations to support social services in those countries. And leave the special needs children to the experienced families....please. Off the soapbox.

I agree with most of what you have written, and please don't feel like I was picking it apart. The desire to have children is built in to our biology, to keep the species going. Why else would a woman throw up for 9 months, allow a stranger to take over her body, blossom a belly worthy of Santa Claus and spend 20 hours wreathing in pain, then push for 3 hours in an event the Olympics can't match. When it is over they are handed a wet, red wrinkled piece of humanity - toothless and often hairless - then looking into those deep, dark eyes they beam and gush "Oh s/he's the most beautiful baby I've ever seen. Or post pone cancer treatment during a pregnancy, knowing the delay could cause her death? I call adoption and birthing children - the polar opposite of selfish. For most low and middle class people, having children in your home means 20 years minimum of giving up your own luxuries in favor of working for your children's well-being.

Healthy people don't have children to receive love; healthy people have children to give love to. To share their essence and to try passing it on to another generation. It is why a woman dreaming of a little girl who loves ballet and princess dresses, goes to her daughter's basketball or soccer games. It is why no matter what our children do, even if we don't like what it is, we love them unconditionally. It is why a parent with a child born with severe disabilities, a child who will never show love or smile or say mama or daddy, a child who will never be out of diapers; sets a bed up in a central room in the house, for the child to be in the family. It is why someone will do the same for a child they didn't give birth to. Selfish? No, anything but.

It is why a sane and normal adult goes to a third world country and falls in love with a child they just met and decides to do everything in their power to take a child out of poverty and try to improve the the chances for the child to have a life.

You are much more knowledgeable on this type of abuse than I, after reading your posts I am going to educate myself because I believe this is a growing problem. Many people are angered, many people are frightened by what they see in the world or even from children of their friends. Yelling, cursing and even hitting their parents and siblings. Children with no self control or boundaries.

I feel there is a certain personality type that would agree with these methods that they call "discipline" but most of us call abuse.; someone very controlling, possibly with anger management issues, probably not too worried about child psychology - unless it is another means of control. Then they use the Bible to support what they do.

Whether these people start out as monsters or not is probably up for debate, I would no more use their methods on a dog, than I could a child. But that's just me.

The Bible has so many interpretations, there is no way everyone will ever come to an agreement. But why would a book that recommends "Love they neighbor as thyself", advise beating the small, defenseless and the innocent?
Could the recommendation "spare the rod, spoil the child" mean "spare the rod, spoil the child"? They are using a book that is supposed to preach love not pain. I believe that anyone who uses it as an excuse to harm a child, has serious problems and probably shouldn't be raising any children let alone special needs children.

 

[LCoastMom]

".....What I can't get past is the use of quarter-inch plumbing supply line as a discipline tool. How does a loving parent get into the mindset that this kind of abuse is okay? No Greater Joy ministry brought in $1.8 million last year in sales of books, DVDs, etc...."

Somebody's buying this garbage.

http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/ar...?oid=3495452&show=comments&sort=desc&display=

I can't in my heart believe they do, the parent was either beaten into believing or they are using this as an excuse to control, they don't want children they want Stepford robots.

I can understand a desperate, uneducated parent with a difficult child and no support, who has tried everything else - but the child is still headed for trouble; buying into this because nothing else has worked and these people have raised such lovely, well-behaved children. Desperation makes people do things they never thought possible.

But those lovely well behaved children are walking time bombs, or broken little people who know no different.

This is really no different from ritualistic abuse. What children can survive is mind boggling. But it doesn't mean they survive intact.

 

[Missizzy]

I think we'd better arm ourselves with eduction to better understand the movement. Many are adhering to these principals--74,000 subscribed to the Pearls bi-monthly newsletter when this article was written three years ago:

http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2006/05/25/the_pearls/index.html


"If you want a child who will integrate into the New World Order and wait his turn in line for condoms, a government funded abortion, sexually transmitted disease treatment, psychological evaluation and a mark on the forehead," writes Pearl in "To Train Up a Child," "then follow the popular guidelines in education, entertainment and discipline, but if you want a son or daughter of God, you will have to do it God's way."

and

"One home-schooling/blogging mother went so far as to buy the plumbing hose and try it on herself. "What I did was take the small supposedly 'harmless' tube and LIGHTLY tap myself on the forearm with it," she reports. "Not only did it sting like an SOB but it also left welts on my arm for TWO hours afterwards."


If you're feeling very brave, read through the 186 comments following this article. My goodness, this is a hot ticket. Now that another child has died, no doubt the controversy will only deepen.



To go straight "to the horse's mouth", check out the on-line articles on child rearing by the Pearls:

http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/child-training/

And for those required by state law to refrain from all corporal punishment ie with foster children, children under court jurisdiction, teachers, and day care providers, there's a special section on "rod-less training". Note that Pearl states that:

"Can children be trained without use of the rod?" Absolutely. But they cannot be absolutely trained. Proper application of the rod is indispensable to communicating the divine principle of retributive justice...."

 

[Missizzy]

LCoastMom--I've birthed three (all in the middle of brutal Central Texas summers), adopted 11 (with one disruption), informally adopted two, and am permanently fostering one.

I agree with everything you say. I think we're just defining selfishness differently. I've never forgotten an excellent lesson I was taught years ago by an adoption home study trainer. She asked those to raise their hand if they wished to help a child by adopting it. Most people raised their hands. She cheerfully said, "Then you can be excused but please take a donut on the way out".

We all laughed but that lesson was never forgotten. You'd better not take in a child for foster care, adopt a child, or get pregnant AND expect to enjoy your life and make the child's life wonderful, if you are not filling a personal need to love and be loved by a child. That's what I meant by selfish--filling a need of your own.

 

[believe09]

I am not picking on you Miss Izz. I want the thread to be crystal clear that these folks murdered and assaulted these children. They did not discipline them. It is not reasonable to call it discipline-I am not saying you subscribe to the practice or that you support-I get that you are far from it.

They murdered this child. Black and white. With a piece of PVC pipe. They get to call it a discipline session gone awry because they adopted these children and they are evangelicals.

They should not be allowed. It is what it is-they beat her to death.

 

[Missizzy]

ITA, Believe, that this is murder. The Schatzes don't get a pass on the "discipline clause". No way. I just want to keep this "Biblical Discipline" subject on the table as I think it's going to play a huge factor in this case and probably the Bass case.

I don't agree, however, that this case is black and white because we have the mitigating factor of this dogma. It's a bit like a death caused by genital mutilation or exorcism IMO. FWIW, I was very disappointed at the Worthington case here in Oregon--attempting to save a very ill child through prayer. It WAS manslaughter...not God's love.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if the publicity garnered by these cases, finally put an end to some of the Pearls' teaching? They need to be exposed, shouted down, and shut down.

 

[LCoastMom]

LCoastMom--I've birthed three (all in the middle of brutal Central Texas summers), adopted 11 (with one disruption), informally adopted two, and am permanently fostering one.

I agree with everything you say. I think we're just defining selfishness differently. I've never forgotten an excellent lesson I was taught years ago by an adoption home study trainer. She asked those to raise their hand if they wished to help a child by adopting it. Most people raised their hands. She cheerfully said, "Then you can be excused but please take a donut on the way out".

We all laughed but that lesson was never forgotten. You'd better not take in a child for foster care, adopt a child, or get pregnant AND expect to enjoy your life and make the child's life wonderful, if you are not filling a personal need to love and be loved by a child. That's what I meant by selfish--filling a need of your own.

Got you, thank you for the explanation.

You are absolutely right my children, the ones I birthed, (three also) the ones I was lucky enough to have in my life for a time, who didn't grow in my womb but grew in my heart, are the best years of my life, the most fulfilling times I've ever had and the one I lost, left a gaping hole in my heart, that 4 years later still has not healed.

I envy and admire you! 14 and you still make pretty good sense!

 

[Missizzy]

Let me hold on to a little pride, folks, and let's not tell her that I've totally lost my ever-lovin' mind. Shhhhhh.

 

[Missizzy]

Another article from Paradise. And for those who haven't been there, it really is a lovely little community up in the hills above Chico (about 150 miles north of SF).

FWIW, in doing a good bit of research on the Pearls' methods, I found that Salon has done several articles on them over the years. I highly suggest that everyone who has questions or doubts, read over the Pearl pages of articles so you can make an informed judgement on your own response.

I tried all day yesterday to find a photo I could link to showing what a 1/4 inch plumber's line looked like. Every photo I came up with, though, got shut down by my husband. He refused to believe that the 1/4 inch icemaker plumber's line is what they are talking about. I did notice, though, that it can be cut into desired lengths. It's plastic but has a sort of stainless steel mesh inside it. I'm guessing this is what they are referring to, even though my husband vehemently disagrees. He said, quite angrily, that "No one could beat a child with a length of that and not leave horrible marks". I've actually sent him today to the Home Depot to get a length of it. I want to try it on myself.

I find it interesting that the Pearls merely describe the rod but they don't show it. They also are quick to add that all discipline with the rod should occur in private. If it's so godly, why? We pray in public. We kiss and hug our kids in public. We guide and correct our kids in public. If it is God's commandment that we discipline with the rod, why should it be hidden?

http://www.paradisepost.com/news/ci_14469888?source=rss

"Controversy and media attention is mounting surrounding a Paradise couple accused of murdering their 7-year old adopted daughter, Lydia Schatz, earlier this month.
Much of the attention centers on a link between the girl's death and the child training, discipline and "chastisement" methods taught by a fundamentalist religious ministry based in Tennessee, called No Greater Joy.

Michael and Debi Pearl, founders of No Greater Joy Ministry and co-authors of a controversial religious parenting book, "To Train Up a Child," recommend that parents spank their children with a quarter-inch plumbing supply line - the same instrument used on Lydia Schatz and her 11-year-old sister, Zariah Schatz - reportedly for hours prior to Lydia's death and the arrest of their adoptive parents, Kevin and Elizabeth Schatz on Feb. 6.

Lydia reportedly died of organ failure before she reached the hospital and Zariah had been beaten so badly her kidneys were failing. She was hospitalized and was listed in critical condition.

According to Paradise Police Lt. Al Billington, Zariah was released from Sutter Memorial Hospital last week into local foster care and she is expected to make a full recovery....."


more at link

 

[Missizzy]

An important snip from the article linked above:


".......results of the autopsy will not be released for several weeks, but preliminary conclusions show that Lydia died of a muscle breakdown leading to a chemical and hormonal balance - shutting down her heart and other vital organs. The Schatzes are expected to enter a plea during their court appearance today. In the meantime, this case has sparked a growing firestorm of media attention and blogs with anti-Pearl sentiments posted...."

 

[Missizzy]

An excellent and enlightening response from Debi Pearl written in 2002 concerning families who go too far. I wonder if this wasn't written somewhat proactively to prevent liability from those who do "try this at home". The part that rankles me is that the Pearls preach over and over with extreme zealotry that these are not their suggestions but commandments from God.

Almost everything I've read, leaves no room for grey areas. BTW, for all you Moms with nursing babies, this letter explains how you can stop the biting. My Lord. Note I said "my". Must be a different Lord than the Pearls talk to.

http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/article...se-older-couple-is-troubled-at-what-they-saw/

"We have seen families who take what we and others have written and use it like the law. When older, wiser people try to help bring balance, the younger couples do not take their counsel. It grieves us. If children are not bubbling with joy and eager to be a part of life, then something is very wrong. Good training begins and ends with tying strings of fellowship and bonds of good times......"

much more at link

I guess this means that the Pearls would be grieved by little Lydia's, Zariah's, and possibly the Bass girl's, discipline. Those girls were not bubbling with joy, that's for sure.

IMO, we need to keep an eye on the Bass case as LE used the phrase:

"The 14-year-old is one of five kids in the fanatically religious household..."

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/crime/14yo-abuse-victim-safe-2-10-2010

I found that to be quite telling and highly surprising coming from LE. Something is up in the Bass family.

 

[Missizzy]

Michael Pearls' response to Lydia Schatz's death. Note, that in not one instance, does Mr. Pearl express sadness about Lydia's death:

http://www.paradisepost.com/ci_14427371?source=rss_viewed

"We do not teach "corporal punishment" nor "hitting" children. We teach parents how to train their children, which sometimes requires the limited and controlled application of a spanking instrument to hold the child's attention on admonition. Over 1,000,000 parents have applied these Biblical principles with joyful results....."

He ends with exhorting us to "move forward".

 

[not_my_kids]

I'm going to go buy some PVC...FOR MYSELF...to try this like the one commenter did. I have to admit, I know that if you are determined enough, you can beat a child to death with nearly anything, but I was skeptical that PVC was strong enough...So, I am going to try this experiment on myself and see what it does. If it leaves welts, I'll post pics.

ETA: Once again to reiterate, I will be trying this on myself, not my babies.

Why this particular tragedy brought out my scientific side, I have no clue.

 

[PeteyGirl]

How much and how often they had to beat that child to cause such overwhelming tissue damage is beyond my ability to imagine. Did they have time to do anything else? Didn't their arms get tired?

The Pearls are, IMO, just more proponents of an extreme sect of Christianity, and are NOT responsible for this child's death. The parents lifted their hands, steeled their hearts against the child's pain and humiliation and beat her until she died. The Pearls are whackjobs and now they are getting the public scrutiny their "method" deserves. As far as the parents, their bail and sentencing can't be too much. The determination and persistence of their beatings is beyond the beyonds.

 

[annmarie62]

I am sick to my stomach after reading this mess. Reminds me of a line from an old Woody Allen movie, "Hannah and Her Sisters," in which one character says,"If Jesus could come back and see what people are doing 'in His name,' he'd never stop throwing up." These self-righteous a-holes who beat kids "in the name of the Lord" are so full of S**T!!! I hate all of them, which is FAR from being Christ-like, but at least it's honest. :furious:

 

[Missizzy]

I too wonder how anyone has time to do anything if they are homeschooling and chastising all day. If you are following the Quiverfull philosophy, you'd have a houseful of little ones to feed and keep clean too.

But isn't this almost identical to the FLDS? One could eat off their floors, they were so clean. I guess the angst has to go somewhere.

I'm Christian and I agree that Jesus would be ashamed and appalled. Remember, he's the one who showed great mercy on the children. I'm often driven to say, "That's not MY Jesus you're talking about".

 

[Missizzy]

The Eight Beatitudes of Jesus

"Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are they who mourn,
for they shall be comforted.

Blessed are the meek,
for they shall inherit the earth.

Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they shall be satisfied.

Blessed are the merciful,
for they shall obtain mercy.

Blessed are the pure of heart,
for they shall see God.

Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they shall be called children of God.

Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."

Matthew 5:3-10

The problem, folks, is that we read these and take to heart Jesus' exhortation to be meek, merciful, pure of heart, and peaceful. The Pearls, it would seem to me, focused on the last one--"Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness"--applied it to babies and children and took it to extremes. JMO

 

[CarmelEyesD]

"Select your instrument according to the child's size," writes Pearl. "For the under one year old, a little, ten to twelve-inch long, willowy branch (stripped of any knots that might break the skin) about one-eighth inch diameter is sufficient. Sometimes alternatives have to be sought. A one-foot ruler, or its equivalent in a paddle, is a sufficient alternative. For the larger child, a belt or larger tree branch is effective." Additional advice from their Web site: Switching with a length of quarter-inch plumbing supply line is a "real attention-getter."

http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2006/05/25/the_pearls/index

"Hands," by contrast, "are for loving and helping," Pearl writes.

http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2006/05/25/the_pearls/index.html

This makes me feel ill, just reading it.