CA - Multiple casualties after 'active shooter' opens fire, Thousand Oaks, 08 Nov 2018

[Sillybilly]

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[not.a.muggle]

Telemachus ‘Tel’ Orfanos, 27, survived mass shooting in Las Vegas but not one in his hometown Thousand Oaks – Orange County Register

Tel Orfanos came home after the Vegas shooting, but he didn’t come home last night. Video of his mother’s reaction

 

[Charlot123]

Wouldn't you think they were actually planning to kill themselves
first but something in their brain said make it a big splash by
killing a bunch of other people? Not sure the thinking of these
guys. What is really going through their brains?

They are suicidal. They know they likely won’t return home from the rampage.

But probably due to loneliness, they think that even their death won’t be noticed. So they want to get their name posted in all newspapers. Make people think of them. Ask why.

Another thing, they probably feel that their lives are out of control.
And this shooting gives them ultimate control. Over who’ll live and who’ll die.

This is all obvious. The diaries of Eric Harris (especially) and Dylan Klebold also show slow descent into psychosis. So, there is loneliness, and there is a type of mental illness.

 

[mickey2942]

I am interested to hear your ideas; I tend to have unpopular ones as well.

Bold: I agree. How long until we see two in the same day?

We may need a different thread, that discusses and analyzes each of these cases. I have been actually correlating similarities between these events since Ted Kazinsky, Oklahoma bombing, Columbine, all men who have become marginalized by society. Bullied, and unable to achieve in a world that they don't fit into.

They had a rage against society, and they reacted with violence, because of their absolute perceived helplessness. The plan to kill empowered them, and gave them an identity, something that they could actually accomplish. The planning gave them a feeling of power, that they could control something in a world that they have zero control over anything.

Imagine, if you can't hold down a job, because you don't "fit" in, for whatever reason, you can't make friends, no one wants to talk to you...people avoid you. But, you can fantasize about what you can do to have that control over those people.

This isn't about race, politics, religion, it is about society now, and how our post industrial age relies on people being able to work with other people. If you don't fit into the cookie cutter mold, you are discarded. These men reacted with violence. And I have no doubt that there will be more shootings, bombings, knife attacks...

 

[human]

We may need a different thread, that discusses and analyzes each of these cases. I have been actually correlating similarities between these events since Ted Kazinsky, Oklahoma bombing, Columbine, all men who have become marginalized by society. Bullied, and unable to achieve in a world that they don't fit into.

They had a rage against society, and they reacted with violence, because of their absolute perceived helplessness. The plan to kill empowered them, and gave them an identity, something that they could actually accomplish. The planning gave them a feeling of power, that they could control something in a world that they have zero control over anything.

Imagine, if you can't hold down a job, because you don't "fit" in, for whatever reason, you can't make friends, no one wants to talk to you...people avoid you. But, you can fantasize about what you can do to have that control over those people.

This isn't about race, politics, religion, it is about society now, and how our post industrial age relies on people being able to work with other people. If you don't fit into the cookie cutter mold, you are discarded. These men reacted with violence. And I have no doubt that there will be more shootings, bombings, knife attacks...

They don’t fit in because of their issues. Things that happened to them. Trauma.

The Una bomber’s mother said he had to go to the hospital as an infant, She was not allowed to hold him. He cane home different she said.

We know plenty about what affects children and infants. We just don’t spend the money and resources on them .

 

[Jennifer17]

They don’t fit in because of their issues. Things that happened to them. Trauma.

The Una bomber’s mother said he had to go to the hospital as an infant, She was not allowed to hold him. He cane home different she said.

We know plenty about what affects children and infants. We just don’t spend the money and resources on them .

I was hospitalised for two weeks when I was ten months old. My mother was not allowed to visit me but I did not grow up traumatised by that and I certainly did not ever think of being violent to anyone.
I know that different situations affect people differently, but such a difference?

 

[margarita25]

Delete

 

[margarita25]

They don’t fit in because of their issues. Things that happened to them. Trauma.

The Una bomber’s mother said he had to go to the hospital as an infant, She was not allowed to hold him. He cane home different she said.

We know plenty about what affects children and infants. We just don’t spend the money and resources on them .

I personally think there may be contributing brain issues MOO so I’m all about that discussion whether it be trauma, or chemical imbalance, etc etc Moo. Sorry very loose statement, meaning these people aren’t normal. Obviously. Pittsburgh Mayor Iirc and Ventura Sheriff just said the same darn thing about to trying to rationalize the irrational.

I feel the same way about people who rape and kill kids. Somethin ain’t right in their heads and hearts.

 

[LaborDayRN]

I think we all want to understand how someone could do something like this. So horrific! Are they insane? This is an interesting article.

Are Mass Murderers Insane? Usually Not, Researchers Say

Are Mass Murderers Insane? Usually Not, Researchers Say

 

[margarita25]

I think we all want to understand how someone could do something like this. So horrific! Are they insane? This is an interesting article.

Are Mass Murderers Insane? Usually Not, Researchers Say

Are Mass Murderers Insane? Usually Not, Researchers Say

I love you LDRN!!!!
NYT 2017, not bad...

Reading...

“It is true that severe mental illnesses are found more often among mass murderers. About one in five are likely psychotic or delusional, according to Dr. Michael Stone, a forensic psychiatrist at Columbia University who maintains a database of 350 mass killers going back more than a century. The figure for the general public is closer to 1 percent.”

 

[margarita25]

I love you LDRN!!!!
NYT 2017, not bad...

Reading...

“It is true that severe mental illnesses are found more often among mass murderers. About one in five are likely psychotic or delusional, according to Dr. Michael Stone, a forensic psychiatrist at Columbia University who maintains a database of 350 mass killers going back more than a century. The figure for the general public is closer to 1 percent.”

I would respectfully ask Dr. Michael Stone about the variable effects of time over this equation.

 

[LaborDayRN]

I love you LDRN!!!!
NYT 2017, not bad...

Reading...

“It is true that severe mental illnesses are found more often among mass murderers. About one in five are likely psychotic or delusional, according to Dr. Michael Stone, a forensic psychiatrist at Columbia University who maintains a database of 350 mass killers going back more than a century. The figure for the general public is closer to 1 percent.”

Awwwww.......I love you too Margarita!

 

[margarita25]

Delete

 

[human]

I was hospitalised for two weeks when I was ten months old. My mother was not allowed to visit me but I did not grow up traumatised by that and I certainly did not ever think of being violent to anyone.
I know that different situations affect people differently, but such a difference?

Yes.People are affected differently at different ages. For example, sex abuse is more harmful for children at different ages. My daughter was telling me from a training she had and I forget so I do not want to quote.

Bonding is critical . There are stages in infancy such as the fear of strangers developing. Perhaps he was in the fear of strangers stage.

You also may have had some holding by nurses or maybe you had secure attachment whereas he was younger and it had not stabilized when it happened.

We know a lot about the needs of infants now some of it because of things from the past such as the orphanage studies.

 

[SandyQLS]

Do reliable statistics exist for veterans with PTSD committing mass murder? I have been wondering why we didn't seem to see/hear/read about this specific type of violence (mass killing) by PTSD vets of previous wars (WWII, Korea,Vietnam). Did it occur and I'm oblivious?? Was it not reported?? PTSD isn't new, and veterans with PTSD have committed violent acts throughout the years... suicide, murder, etc. It certainly seems (imo) mass killing of innocents by veterans has been escalating, and I'm curious and puzzled over the "why" factor/s. I could be totally wrong but I'm not afraid to post my query.

ETA: Maybe the number of veterans with ptsd committing mass murder is proportionate to the number of mass killings committed by the general population (non-veterans)? Maybe the seeming escalation is "balanced" overall??

Veteran Population - National Center for Veterans Analysis and Statistics

According to the Dept. Of Veterans Affairs (link) there were about 22 million veterans in the United States in 2014.

*

That number should provide some perspective. The Colorado theater shooter, Orlando nightclub shooter, San Bernardino shooters, Las Vegas shooter, school shooters, and most mass shooters are not veterans.

*

For PTSD, the estimates range from 10% to 30% rates from the Vietnam War forward, including "at some point in their lifetime" which seems like something temporary. (too many links to post, too many opinions, so I posted the range)

I am not seeing 10% of 22 million = 2.2 million veterans with PTSD committing mass shootings.

ANY mass shooter is an anomaly.

 

[human]

I personally think there may be contributing brain issues MOO so I’m all about that discussion whether it be trauma, or chemical imbalance, etc etc Moo. Sorry very loose statement, meaning these people aren’t normal. Obviously. Pittsburgh Mayor Iirc and Ventura Sheriff just said the same darn thing about to trying to rationalize the irrational.

I feel the same way about people who rape and kill kids. Somethin ain’t right in their heads and hearts.

Trauma actually changes the brain. There is much info on this whole issue. The brain can be scanned nowadays,

 

[human]

Veteran Population - National Center for Veterans Analysis and Statistics

According to the Dept. Of Veterans Affairs (link) there were about 22 million veterans in the United States in 2014.

*

That number should provide some perspective. The Colorado theater shooter, Orlando nightclub shooter, San Bernardino shooters, Las Vegas shooter, school shooters, and most mass shooters are not veterans.

*

For PTSD, the estimates range from 10% to 30% rates from the Vietnam War forward, including "at some point in their lifetime" which seems like something temporary. (too many links to post, too many opinions, so I posted the range)

I am not seeing 10% of 22 million = 2.2 million veterans with PTSD committing mass shootings.

ANY mass shooter is an anomaly.

How many vets commit suicide each day?How many are homeless?

 

[human]

My husband’s very good friend is 73. He is a Vietnam Vet who self medicated. He was married to my best friend until she divorced him.

He received treatment for PTSD two years ago the first time ever. His health issues caught up with him , and he finally admitted he needs mental health assistance.

 

[katydid23]

I love you LDRN!!!!
NYT 2017, not bad...

Reading...

“It is true that severe mental illnesses are found more often among mass murderers. About one in five are likely psychotic or delusional, according to Dr. Michael Stone, a forensic psychiatrist at Columbia University who maintains a database of 350 mass killers going back more than a century. The figure for the general public is closer to 1 percent.”

So according to these statistics, 1 in 100 of the general public are severely mentally ill, whereas 1 in 5 mass killers are mentally ill.

1 in 100 seems very high. So in a crowded nightclub, there are going to be 3 to 6 severely mentally ill people there with you?

 

[LaborDayRN]

My husband’s very good friend is 73. He is a Vietnam Vet who self medicated. He was married to my best friend until she divorced him.

He received treatment for PTSD two years ago the first time ever. His health issues caught up with him , and he finally admitted he needs mental health assistance.

Good for him! I bet it was hard for him to reach out but I'm glad he did.