CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #17

[MistyWaters]

IF they were bound together at one point I am thinking they were both alive. Because why bound 2 dead people together or 1 dead and one alive together?

If that's the case, then the murderer kept HS alive until BS arrived home.
I am thinking the killer beat or tortured HS in front of BS to make him talk. Maybe they wanted info from him? Then the killer murdered HS in front of BS, then killed him.

JMO....just my own personal theory...I could be way off on this. Just a gut feeling.

It’s debatable if “bound together” refers to 2 people being bound together or if the wrists of each victim were bound together at some point in time. The later would make more sense IMO.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Wondering what became of the ''odd ducks''?

The Billionaire Murders

''Gottlieb had shown the house to two men who struck her as odd ducks''

A little later in the book Greenspan said the lead was a ‘dead end’, but not much else was written about it. Hopefully they found a nice home!
In my ebook it’s 291 (KD’s book):

 

[MistyWaters]

I


In driving around Toronto this weekend I started to look at the way pedestrians were walking. I saw 3 or 4 people that had a similar walking style as this individual. At least based on the less than clear video that LE released. I think that identifying this person from this video is never going to happen, and I frankly think their gait is more common than we think.

The thought occurs to me that it serves as a final refute of KWs claim that Barry had an assistant who he called to help him set up a m/s scenario. No reason for someone agreeing to help a friend in need to take such a surreptitious time-consuming walk in the dark.

 

[dotr]

December 20 2021
Police probing Sherman murders learned of mysterious suspect with odd walk almost four years ago
''The mysterious murder suspect with the odd walking style has been on the Toronto police radar since shortly after the bodies of Honey and Barry Sherman were discovered four years ago, recently unsealed search warrant documents reveal.

Multiple images of the unknown person trudging in heavy boots and a bulky winter coat along snowy sidewalks near the Sherman house at the time of the murders were discovered on numerous home security videos early in the investigation. By the summer of 2018, police had prepared a highly detailed analysis tracking the movements of the person, by then a possible suspect in the case.

Yet police sat on all this information, unable to identify the person, until last week when they asked for public assistance, officially labelling this person as a “suspect” and acknowledging they had been unable to determine the person’s identity. A Toronto police spokesperson said Saturday “dozens” of tips are rolling in from people who say they may know who the mystery person is.''

 

[WINDSOR]

In reading today's article in the Toronto Star, I discovered that the suspect had arrived and left the Old Colony home from the same direction, from the East.
To me this is significant.
It supports the 'safe-house' theory, in that the suspect left the safe house with his tools, did the job and returned with his tools.
Secondly, his journey appears not to require any vehicles, which lessens the chances of being identified by the vehicle or witnesses.

Now there does not necessarily need to be a safe house. Very easily the suspect could have been dropped off and been picked up on Leslie street.
However It would be a lot easier to be dropped off and picked up on Bayview. Bayview is a more residential street than Leslie, and less traffic.

Since the TPS has been aware of the suspect and has been trying to identify him for almost 4 years there is a possibility he will never be identified.
If the suspect is part of a team, and depending how ruthless the team is, now that the suspect has been revealed, the suspect's life may be at risk from the team.

 

[dotr]

rbbm.
Police probing Sherman murders learned of mysterious suspect with odd walk almost four years ago
''Police provided a third timeline, this one for the mystery person. According to the newly released documents, police have at least 20 video stills or videos from neighbourhood cameras showing this person. Police were particularly interested in what they describe as an odd “gait” — the person kicks up the back of the right heel with each step. Some doctors contacted the Star to say this is “drop foot,” caused by a neurological condition.''

fwiw..
Foot drop - Symptoms and causes
''Foot drop, sometimes called drop foot, is a general term for difficulty lifting the front part of the foot. If you have foot drop, the front of your foot might drag on the ground when you walk.

Foot drop isn't a disease. Rather, foot drop is a sign of an underlying neurological, muscular or anatomical problem.

Sometimes foot drop is temporary, but it can be permanent. If you have foot drop, you might need to wear a brace on your ankle and foot to hold your foot in a normal position''
''Foot drop makes it difficult to lift the front part of your foot, so it might drag on the floor when you walk. This can cause you to raise your thigh when you walk, as though climbing stairs (steppage gait), to help your foot clear the floor. This unusual gait might cause you to slap your foot down onto the floor with each step. In some cases, the skin on the top of your foot and toes feels numb.

Depending on the cause, foot drop can affect one or both feet.''

 

[MistyWaters]

rbbm.
Police probing Sherman murders learned of mysterious suspect with odd walk almost four years ago
''Police provided a third timeline, this one for the mystery person. According to the newly released documents, police have at least 20 video stills or videos from neighbourhood cameras showing this person. Police were particularly interested in what they describe as an odd “gait” — the person kicks up the back of the right heel with each step. Some doctors contacted the Star to say this is “drop foot,” caused by a neurological condition.''

fwiw..
Foot drop - Symptoms and causes
''Foot drop, sometimes called drop foot, is a general term for difficulty lifting the front part of the foot. If you have foot drop, the front of your foot might drag on the ground when you walk.

Foot drop isn't a disease. Rather, foot drop is a sign of an underlying neurological, muscular or anatomical problem.

Sometimes foot drop is temporary, but it can be permanent. If you have foot drop, you might need to wear a brace on your ankle and foot to hold your foot in a normal position''
''Foot drop makes it difficult to lift the front part of your foot, so it might drag on the floor when you walk. This can cause you to raise your thigh when you walk, as though climbing stairs (steppage gait), to help your foot clear the floor. This unusual gait might cause you to slap your foot down onto the floor with each step. In some cases, the skin on the top of your foot and toes feels numb.

Depending on the cause, foot drop can affect one or both feet.''

Considering the quick, brisk pace the suspect was moving along at, I doubt if he had a such a serious impediment that would require a brace. People suffering from “foot drop” which is often neurological are at risk of stumbling if they walk too fast, brace or not.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Considering the quick, brisk pace the suspect was moving along at, I doubt if he had a such a serious impediment that would require a brace. People suffering from “foot drop” which is often neurological are at risk of stumbling if they walk too fast, brace or not.

If he or she is the killer I’d think they were full of adrenaline walking away from the home, which may made them less cautious when walking, imo. They may have been in ‘flight’ mode.

I’d really like to see a comparison between how he walked when approaching the home versus leaving the home. Was there a drastic change?

 

[Gina20]

I


In driving around Toronto this weekend I started to look at the way pedestrians were walking. I saw 3 or 4 people that had a similar walking style as this individual. At least based on the less than clear video that LE released. I think that identifying this person from this video is never going to happen, and I frankly think their gait is more common than we think.

I agree that the right foot issue is pretty common. However, I have never in real life seen anyone, male or female, walk like Vladimir Putin. This person is using the gunslinger's gait, taught by the KGB and certain other agencies and military, IMO. I agree, the likelihood of finding such a person is slim, especially if someone knows who this is.

 

[juli99]

If he or she is the killer I’d think they were full of adrenaline walking away from the home, which may made them less cautious when walking, imo. They may have been in ‘flight’ mode.

I’d really like to see a comparison between how he walked when approaching the home versus leaving the home. Was there a drastic change?

I'd love to see the video of him going the other way. Wouldn't that also give us an even better view of the right foot thing?

 

[dotr]

If he or she is the killer I’d think they were full of adrenaline walking away from the home, which may made them less cautious when walking, imo. They may have been in ‘flight’ mode.

I’d really like to see a comparison between how he walked when approaching the home versus leaving the home. Was there a drastic change?

Adrenaline and perhaps a little ''snow'' supplemented that high-stepping/ foot dropping, death march. imo, speculation.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

This is from an older article which may be relevant to the ‘suspect’ video:

“(Detective) Yim said the first concern the police have is that they have intentionally “held back” from the public certain information, and they want to use that to assess the reliability of other information they may receive.

“At this stage of the investigation, while witnesses are still being interviewed, a witness might on his or her own reveal a detail that police come to realize has never been publicly disclosed,” Yim said. The police state they are also concerned that, if the sealed material detailing the investigation to date is released, it “could contaminate subsequent witness statements … by enabling a witness to provide an account of events that coheres with other evidence known to them.”

Toronto Police also say they are worried that disclosure “could also prejudice any ongoing or future investigative actions that are surreptitious or covert in nature.” No details were provided.

Another police concern was that, if the specific locations searched, and the items seized, were disclosed “the perpetrator(s) would know exactly what items or evidence have not been obtained and could take steps to frustrate our attempts to collect evidence.”
‘Covert’ tactics, more search warrants may be coming in Barry and Honey Sherman murder probe: Police | The Star

 

[Gina20]

How many people known to Barry and Honey Sherman are about 5'6" to 5'9"? How many of those carried murderous grudges? How many weigh about what this person did? Surely weight can be estimated using the same metrics police applied to determine height.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Considering the quick, brisk pace the suspect was moving along at, I doubt if he had a such a serious impediment that would require a brace. People suffering from “foot drop” which is often neurological are at risk of stumbling if they walk too fast, brace or not.

I myself have a tilted pelvis and thus my one leg is approx 1/4 cm shorter than the other leg, I "wander slowly" to my right as I walk, my left toe stubs and trips often and I cannot help it, I do not walk straight. My husband picked me out walking along a beach in an old family video, said he knew my walk - he describes my walk as "getting your land legs after a 7-day cruise", an unbalanced uneven gait.

 

[Gina20]

Let me rephrase my question. How many people known to both Barry and Honey Sherman are about 5'6" to 5'9"? How many of those carried murderous grudges? What happened in late 2017 to make them act on it? How many of those people walk like ex-KGB?

 

[JayFriend]

I myself have a tilted pelvis and thus my one leg is approx 1/4 cm shorter than the other leg, I "wander slowly" to my right as I walk, my left toe stubs and trips often and I cannot help it, I do not walk straight. My husband picked me out walking along a beach in an old family video, said he knew my walk - he describes my walk as "getting your land legs after a 7-day cruise", an unbalanced uneven gait.

I did not see it mentioned earlier in view of the contention that the walker could be a man or woman. Normally men walk placing their feet along parallel paths, while women place one foot in front of the other.

 

[Gina20]

It must be kind of worrisome to live on Old Colony Road these days. In October, a brand new mansion down the street burned down.

Mansion under construction burns down on Old Colony Road - Streeter

Fire breaks out at home under construction in North York - Toronto | Globalnews.ca

Fire at mansion being built on Old Colony had TFS hopping

The house was a two-minute walk from #50, at #66.

 

[dotr]

''The Night Walker: Kevin Donovan on the suspect in the Sherman murders''
Dec 20, 2021

Video of suspect released by Toronto police in Sherman double murder case
rbbm.Dec 14 2021
''Detective Sergeant Brandon Price stated that the footage is being released because police have “exhausted” other avenues of identification.

“We’ve conducted numerous canvasses of the neighbourhood to identify individuals on the videos,” said Price. “We have been able to eliminate the vast majority of people captured on the video. We are left with one individual whom we have been unable to identify.”

“To be clear, this release is in no way an indication of a conclusion to this investigation. From the beginning, this has been a multifaceted investigation, and we will continue to work on various other avenues of investigation that we have undertaken and keep an open mind to new ones.”

 

[Tobiano8th]

so i read both toronto star articles.......... or were there more than that recently?

got them mostly from beating paywalls (there are a few news sites with the stories, and one doesn't seem to have paywall)............ and i did get access to them later through other means.

anyway, nothing too new..... quite a bit of color on HS relationship with kids (JS in particular) and their significant others. things sounded fine.. more background on family. apparently HS and BS were shouters and swearers but nothing worse than that.

interesting that some MD's emailed Donovan and said that distinctive gait may be due to neurological damage. makes me less likely to think they are involved ........... very very strange that that suspect seemed to walk a long way (1-2 miles) to and from exactly to Sherman's house and spent a bunch of time off-camera there (perhaps something else right in that exact area was the object of their actions)

it's been commented on before... but JS with the time/hand stamp for time/day of murder... how many days does he have these time stamps for?... seems like "doth protest too much" to me. but who knows?

 

[Gina20]

so i read both toronto star articles.......... or were there more than that recently?

got them mostly from beating paywalls (there are a few news sites with the stories, and one doesn't seem to have paywall)............ and i did get access to them later through other means.

anyway, nothing too new..... quite a bit of color on HS relationship with kids (JS in particular) and their significant others. things sounded fine.. more background on family. apparently HS and BS were shouters and swearers but nothing worse than that.

interesting that some MD's emailed Donovan and said that distinctive gait may be due to neurological damage. makes me less likely to think they are involved ........... very very strange that that suspect seemed to walk a long way (1-2 miles) to and from exactly to Sherman's house and spent a bunch of time off-camera there (perhaps something else right in that exact area was the object of their actions)

it's been commented on before... but JS with the time/hand stamp for time/day of murder... how many days does he have these time stamps for?... seems like "doth protest too much" to me. but who knows?

What doesn't make sense about the neurological damage theory is the way the night walker swings his arms. If he had neurologic damage on his right side, why does his swing his right arm vigorously while restricting movement in his left arm? To me, this indicates more of a Putin thing. Putin has no problems with his hands and arms on either side, despite his peculiar gait. (Nor do any of the other Russian officials who adopt this gait have evidence of neurological problems.) Researchers looked for evidence of neurological disorders with Putin, and found none over an extended period of time.