CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #19

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Quoting from LexiinToronto above:


The Star was particularly interested in this 911 test because several years ago, at the urging of one of the Sherman children, the Star looked into a report that a 911 call may have been made from the Sherman home at the time of the murders, perhaps by Barry or Honey summoning help. Here is what we found: At 9:30 a.m. on the Thursday — the morning after the Shermans were murdered but while their bodies had not been discovered — a neighbour a few doors away had a knock on her door from a Toronto police officer who said he was checking out a report of a 911 call on the street. The woman had not made a call. At close to the same time, the camera of a home across from the Shermans caught the fuzzy image of a man in a sedan pulling up to the Sherman home, parking on the street, and going back and forth to the Sherman front door over a period of about 30 minutes. ”

------------------------------

This is quite interesting. Does LE have any info from this car, the person in the car or the reasons for this to have happened? What kind of sedan? Year? Model? Colour? The man walking to the door over and over? My curiosity is now piqued! Thanks to Lexi!

ETA- did this man have a "distinctive gait"? Was he the size of the NW?

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Quoting from LexiinToronto above:


The Star was particularly interested in this 911 test because several years ago, at the urging of one of the Sherman children, the Star looked into a report that a 911 call may have been made from the Sherman home at the time of the murders, perhaps by Barry or Honey summoning help. Here is what we found: At 9:30 a.m. on the Thursday — the morning after the Shermans were murdered but while their bodies had not been discovered — a neighbour a few doors away had a knock on her door from a Toronto police officer who said he was checking out a report of a 911 call on the street. The woman had not made a call. At close to the same time, the camera of a home across from the Shermans caught the fuzzy image of a man in a sedan pulling up to the Sherman home, parking on the street, and going back and forth to the Sherman front door over a period of about 30 minutes. ”

------------------------------

This is quite interesting. Does LE have any info from this car, the person in the car or the reasons for this to have happened? What kind of sedan? Year? Model? Colour? The man walking to the door over and over? My curiosity is now piqued! Thanks to Lexi!

ETA- did this man have a "distinctive gait"? Was he the size of the NW?

KD reported that a neighbour provided cctv footage to the police and to the Greenspan team of investigators that were then working for the Sherman children.

Two of the neighbour’s cameras were focused on their own property, but because of how they were positioned they also captured the activity around the former Sherman home.

Greenspan said this of the video: “We have always been interested in (the video footage),” Greenspan said. “All I can tell you is what we see. When you try to improve on the very grainy security camera footage it pixelates. We are sort of stuck with the grainy footage.” (Quote from article linked below.)

KD reported initially that he hadn’t seen the video, but had seen notes taken of what the video showed. He first reported this:

“Here is what is in the security video footage, according to the account provided to the Star:

At 9:11 a.m. a dark-coloured four-door sedan driving west on Old Colony Rd. stops and parks immediately in front of the Sherman house. It does not drive into the circular driveway. Three minutes after the car is parked, a man gets out and at 9:14 a.m. he walks to the Sherman house and enters through the front door. He remains in the house for 12 minutes.

At 9:26 a.m., the man emerges from the house, walks back to his car and gets in. He remains in the car for just under 11 minutes, then gets out of his car, walks back to the house and enters through the front door at 9:37 a.m. This time he remains in the house for eight minutes.

At 9:45 a.m., the man walks back to his car. This time he stays in his car for about 21 minutes, before walking back to the house and entering through the front door at 10:06 a.m. He remains in the house for nine minutes, then emerges, gets into his car and drives slowly west towards Bayview Ave. at 10:16 a.m.

The positioning of the two CCTV cameras that caught this activity do not show the licence plate and the images are blurry — you cannot make out the face of the man.”

29 minutes inside Barry and Honey Sherman’s home: Who was the visitor?

While the Shermans lay dead in the basement pool room of their Toronto home a lone man went in and out of their house three times, according to an account of security camera footage seized by Toronto police.

www.thestar.com

In later reporting of the story, and in interviews, KD has said it’s not actually clear if the man actually entered the home.

The police publicly said they know who the man is and why he was there, but declined to comment further.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Thank you Lexi. This is a goldmine. So they know who it is and why he was there. No further comment. Hmmmmm …..So he entered the house with a key or did he need to be let in?

My mind is telling me that LE know who killed the Sherman’s but just need one more piece to the puzzle to lay charges. JMO

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

From wiki about the 911 call

What happens when you call 911 Ontario?


What happens when you call 911. A 911 dispatcher will answer and ask if you need police, fire or ambulance. You may need to provide exact location details. If you call from a cell phone, the dispatcher will only see your general location.

 

[FromGermany1]

From wiki about the 911 call

What happens when you call 911 Ontario?


What happens when you call 911. A 911 dispatcher will answer and ask if you need police, fire or ambulance. You may need to provide exact location details. If you call from a cell phone, the dispatcher will only see your general location.

I think, that man, who 3 times entered the home (or only the entrance area) is the man, who called 911 with his cell phone, sitting in his car. Probably after some calls to Sherman's phones or Apotex or someone other, searching for the Shermans because he had an important appointment at the home and nobody seemed to be present. IMO

 

[juli99]

I think, that man, who 3 times entered the home (or only the entrance area) is the man, who called 911 with his cell phone, sitting in his car. Probably after some calls to Sherman's phones or Apotex or someone other, searching for the Shermans because he had an important appointment at the home and nobody seemed to be present. IMO

When this was brought up before, there was some discussion about whether this man could have been a police officer. I would think a visitor to the home would park in the circular drive? Whoever he is, LE knows his identity and why he was there so I doubt that it's of much importance other than it's bothersome they won't tell us who he is.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Who let him into the house? Where did he go once inside the house? Why didn’t housekeepers become suspicious IF he had a meeting but neither Sherman showed up?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Did the Sherman’s have a live in housekeeper? From what I can tell from info given out, the only ones in and out of their house were the plant waterer, the real estate people, the persons looking to purchase the house and the woman who started mopping after having been questioned by LE. Anyone else that the public knows about?

 

[juli99]

They did not have a live-in housekeeper. They had a lady who seemingly cleaned every Friday. Other people in the house that Friday morning were the trainer and the furnace guy.

‘Someone has killed my clients’: Newly released documents detail the day Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead, and what police did after

Even as friends and associates of Barry and Honey Sherman insisted they were murdered, Toronto police continued to pursue the theory that Barry killed Honey, then himself, newly released police

www.toronto.com

"That Friday morning had begun in a normal fashion, following a routine schedule Honey had confirmed by email earlier in the week.

At 8:25 a.m., housekeeper Nelia Macatangay arrived to tidy the house and help make potato latkes."

"Megan Young arrived at the same time. Young was one of several personal trainers the Shermans employed."

"Around the same time, a white van from a furnace company showed up. It was a regular service call by Allan Caruk."

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

KD reported that a neighbour provided cctv footage to the police and to the Greenspan team of investigators that were then working for the Sherman children.

Two of the neighbour’s cameras were focused on their own property, but because of how they were positioned they also captured the activity around the former Sherman home.

Greenspan said this of the video: “We have always been interested in (the video footage),” Greenspan said. “All I can tell you is what we see. When you try to improve on the very grainy security camera footage it pixelates. We are sort of stuck with the grainy footage.” (Quote from article linked below.)

KD reported initially that he hadn’t seen the video, but had seen notes taken of what the video showed. He first reported this:

“Here is what is in the security video footage, according to the account provided to the Star:

At 9:11 a.m. a dark-coloured four-door sedan driving west on Old Colony Rd. stops and parks immediately in front of the Sherman house. It does not drive into the circular driveway. Three minutes after the car is parked, a man gets out and at 9:14 a.m. he walks to the Sherman house and enters through the front door. He remains in the house for 12 minutes.

At 9:26 a.m., the man emerges from the house, walks back to his car and gets in. He remains in the car for just under 11 minutes, then gets out of his car, walks back to the house and enters through the front door at 9:37 a.m. This time he remains in the house for eight minutes.

At 9:45 a.m., the man walks back to his car. This time he stays in his car for about 21 minutes, before walking back to the house and entering through the front door at 10:06 a.m. He remains in the house for nine minutes, then emerges, gets into his car and drives slowly west towards Bayview Ave. at 10:16 a.m.

The positioning of the two CCTV cameras that caught this activity do not show the licence plate and the images are blurry — you cannot make out the face of the man.”

29 minutes inside Barry and Honey Sherman’s home: Who was the visitor?

While the Shermans lay dead in the basement pool room of their Toronto home a lone man went in and out of their house three times, according to an account of security camera footage seized by Toronto police.

www.thestar.com

In later reporting of the story, and in interviews, KD has said it’s not actually clear if the man actually entered the home.

The police publicly said they know who the man is and why he was there, but declined to comment further.

Reading this makes me think of the TV show "The Cleaning Lady". Someone sent in to clean up and maybe stage the bodies the morning after? move them to the pool area to mess with the time of death?

I know this does not fit with autopsy reports, no one has stated that the bodies were moved after death.

One thing that KW said here in a post once, that HS was killed in the kitchen, I believe that he was told this in one of his interviews, if LE we truthful or not we do not know but I am now thinking it may be true. But again from what we know of the autopsy reports no reporting of blood pooling / body moved after death was published.

I have strong thoughts this was another LE knocking on doors to see where the 911 call came from, like what was happening on the other side of the street. But when you see how long and the number of times he went to the door it is hard to believe it is.

Makes me more curious, if the cell tower data dump LE looked at included only cell #'s they know of to see if they were in the local for the Wed night and Thursday morning, or if the warrant allowed all cellular communications that pinged the towers including Thursday morning. *** If they had all pings, they could have determined who the Thursday Visitor was if they were returning to the car, calling/texting someone

 

[deugirtni]

Did the Sherman’s have a live in housekeeper? From what I can tell from info given out, the only ones in and out of their house were the plant waterer, the real estate people, the persons looking to purchase the house and the woman who started mopping after having been questioned by LE. Anyone else that the public knows about?

They did not have a live-in housekeeper. They had a lady who seemingly cleaned every Friday. Other people in the house that Friday morning were the trainer and the furnace guy.

‘Someone has killed my clients’: Newly released documents detail the day Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead, and what police did after

Even as friends and associates of Barry and Honey Sherman insisted they were murdered, Toronto police continued to pursue the theory that Barry killed Honey, then himself, newly released police

www.toronto.com

"That Friday morning had begun in a normal fashion, following a routine schedule Honey had confirmed by email earlier in the week.

At 8:25 a.m., housekeeper Nelia Macatangay arrived to tidy the house and help make potato latkes."

"Megan Young arrived at the same time. Young was one of several personal trainers the Shermans employed."

"Around the same time, a white van from a furnace company showed up. It was a regular service call by Allan Caruk."

So before LE arrived, there were 8 individuals roaming around various parts of the home:

1)cleaning lady Macatangay
2)personal trainer Megan Young
3)furnace service call man Allan Caruk
4)homebuyer's realtor
5/6)two potential homebuyers
7)seller's realtor Stern
8)'gardener' Claire Banks

Seems like a lot

 

[deugirtni]

Reading this makes me think of the TV show "The Cleaning Lady". Someone sent in to clean up and maybe stage the bodies the morning after? move them to the pool area to mess with the time of death?

I know this does not fit with autopsy reports, no one has stated that the bodies were moved after death.

One thing that KW said here in a post once, that HS was killed in the kitchen, I believe that he was told this in one of his interviews, if LE we truthful or not we do not know but I am now thinking it may be true. But again from what we know of the autopsy reports no reporting of blood pooling / body moved after death was published.

I have strong thoughts this was another LE knocking on doors to see where the 911 call came from, like what was happening on the other side of the street. But when you see how long and the number of times he went to the door it is hard to believe it is.

Makes me more curious, if the cell tower data dump LE looked at included only cell #'s they know of to see if they were in the local for the Wed night and Thursday morning, or if the warrant allowed all cellular communications that pinged the towers including Thursday morning. *** If they had all pings, they could have determined who the Thursday Visitor was if they were returning to the car, calling/texting someone

The officers that would normally show up regarding a 911 call, or call-attempt, would normally be dressed in police uniform (based on personal experiences).

My guess is that it was perhaps someone to do with the real estate sale, like perhaps a video guy showing up to do a real estate video to post on realtor.ca... perhaps had a scheduled time to show up, nobody home, so he keeps going back to call the realtor who ordered his services?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I was reading on a non msm site ( so I cannot post it here ) that H was ambushed getting out of her car because one of her earrings was found in some bushes. Any credence to that?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

So before LE arrived, there were 8 individuals roaming around various parts of the home:

1)cleaning lady Macatangay
2)personal trainer Megan Young
3)furnace service call man Allan Caruk
4)homebuyer's realtor
5/6)two potential homebuyers
7)seller's realtor Stern
8)'gardener' Claire Banks

Seems like a lot

That is a lot of people traipsing around the house. Was the furnace in the basement anywhere near the pool?

 

[branmuffin]

Well it is confusing when here at WS it’s called a cold case but not elsewhere.

Don't feel bad, some people on the Idaho murders threads think that's a cold case since a month has gone by and there are no arrests.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Reading this makes me think of the TV show "The Cleaning Lady". Someone sent in to clean up and maybe stage the bodies the morning after? move them to the pool area to mess with the time of death?

I know this does not fit with autopsy reports, no one has stated that the bodies were moved after death.

One thing that KW said here in a post once, that HS was killed in the kitchen, I believe that he was told this in one of his interviews, if LE we truthful or not we do not know but I am now thinking it may be true. But again from what we know of the autopsy reports no reporting of blood pooling / body moved after death was published.

I have strong thoughts this was another LE knocking on doors to see where the 911 call came from, like what was happening on the other side of the street. But when you see how long and the number of times he went to the door it is hard to believe it is.

Makes me more curious, if the cell tower data dump LE looked at included only cell #'s they know of to see if they were in the local for the Wed night and Thursday morning, or if the warrant allowed all cellular communications that pinged the towers including Thursday morning. *** If they had all pings, they could have determined who the Thursday Visitor was if they were returning to the car, calling/texting someone

I think you’re right about the cell phone being traced.

We officially know little about the autopsy reports, and like you wrote we don’t know if there’s an indication they were killed in one position and then moved into another (KD’s theory is that HS was, or at least was attacked in one area and moved to the pool area.)

KW & my post to him about stating HS was killed in the kitchen:

I never stated she was strangled in the kitchen.

“ You previously wrote Honey was killed in the kitchen. Three examples:
CANADA - Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #18

CANADA - Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #16

Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #15

ETA: Just pointinting it out. We’re wondering why you’ve said she was killed in the kitchen. Her phone was found in the front powder room floor, metres away.”

CANADA - Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #18

I think he's walking like that because he's amending his centre of gravity the way heavily pregnant women do. They lean backward when walking, described as a penguin waddle. He looks like he's in his mid to late 50s, perhaps a little older. He isn't a thin man and he may have a bit of a belly...

www.websleuths.com

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Don't feel bad, some people on the Idaho murders threads think that's a cold case since a month has gone by and there are no arrests.

Thanks for the laugh, I needed that.

 

[branmuffin]

Rsbm.
Interestingly enough, maybe the NW was a decoy/red herring for the ''mastermind'' who may or may not be the actual killer, with or without an unusual gait - subterfuge !

' Dec 15, 2021

HUNTER: Are cops hunting amputee in Sherman double murder?

For four long seasons, Dr. Richard Kimble hunted a one-armed man he claimed murdered his wife.

torontosun.com

''Criminologist and former police officer Mike Arntfield on what the release of a suspect video could mean for the Sherman murder probe.'

“This would explain what I said when I indicated that given the efforts by the offender to otherwise conceal their identification, knowing full well there is CCTV in the area, he is not hiding how he walks.”

''He added: “And the fact he has a distinct stride or gait… it is either an intentional misdirect or something the offender would be unable to conceal.”

You can cover your face, wear a balaclava, add glasses or a beard. It is difficult to hide the fact you’ve had a leg amputated.''

“It’s a reasonable explanation because there is a disconnect between that idiosyncratic trait and his efforts to conceal his identity,” Arntfield said. “It’s like having a tattoo on your face or a giveaway accent. You just can’t hide it.''

The reality is we don't know if the NW was hiding his face. Maybe it was cold and windy and every time he walked by a driveway the wind was blowing in his face so he turned it away. And really, we only have one small snippet of a longer video so judging him suspicious within a few seconds because he appeared to be trying to hide his identity is ludicrous to me.

I always thought and said so when the video first came out, that he walked like someone with a prosthetic leg. If he was a hitman why would some shadow person or organization send someone who not only had a visible uncommon gait but would have been unable to run away if caught. It makes no sense to me.

He looked like some old European guy wearing his peaked cap with earflaps a woolen overcoat and galoshes going from point A to B. I'm sure the cops knocked on every door on that street and over two more and showed them a clip of the video to see if anyone recognized him. If no one did, does that make him suspicious or just a POI they need to strike off a list?

Unless he was some seasoned Mossad assassin left over from the Six Days war and decided to pop into the local synagogue two streets over for a quick prayer before killing his targets, I don't think so. Oh wait, LE never included the synagogue when they canvassed the area.

 

[dotr]

So before LE arrived, there were 8 individuals roaming around various parts of the home:

1)cleaning lady Macatangay
2)personal trainer Megan Young
3)furnace service call man Allan Caruk
4)homebuyer's realtor
5/6)two potential homebuyers
7)seller's realtor Stern
8)'gardener' Claire Banks

Seems like a lot

If only they had a butler too...

Why do we think the butler did it?

Nate Pedersen: This plot formula has the unusual distinction of being a cliché of mystery writing without ever having been widely used

www.theguardian.com

''It seems a pity, for the butler to be so blithely written off as a culprit. He did, after all, launch a particularly long-lasting cliché by barely doing anything at all. The butler should be resurrected as the guilty party and given a proper crime, a real send-off, a murder worth the cliché he began. Until then, this case remains unsolved.

The butler was framed.''

 

[Jealoushe]

I was reading on a non msm site ( so I cannot post it here ) that H was ambushed getting out of her car because one of her earrings was found in some bushes. Any credence to that?

The earring was found on the road or by the road, I believe.

Sherman family investigators hand over earring and other evidence collected at murdered billionaires’ home to Toronto police

The handover comes several weeks after police warned the Sherman family’s lawyer they would seek a judicial warrant if potential evidence was not immediately handed over, sources close to the case have told the Star.

www.thestar.com