Canada - Four killed, 7 injured in shootings, La Loche, Sask, 22 Jan 2016

[Ellie9]

Yes thank you, Paul Bernardo was the name I was trying to think of. He's the best example of Canada deciding someone just isn't safe for society. It could depend on the suspect himself though. If mental illness was a factor they can be more lenient. The mentally ill man who murdered and ate another man on a bus is going on unsupervised outings now. They said his medication is treating his condition. We can only hope they are correct.


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[KatieLiz]

Yes thank you, Paul Bernardo was the name I was trying to think of. He's the best example of Canada deciding someone just isn't safe for society. It could depend on the suspect himself though. If mental illness was a factor they can be more lenient. The mentally ill man who murdered and ate another man on a bus is going on unsupervised outings now. They said his medication is treating his condition. We can only hope they are correct.


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I know!! It's terrifying that the Bus guy is allowed out. He has to be seriously mentally ill to do what he did. Bernardo on the other hand is a sociopath and a narcissist and knew exactly what he was doing. He is one sick man.

This boy has taken multiple lives, similar to Bernardo. So I hope his sentence will reflect that. I'm sure they will argue some kind of mental health defence but you can't plead insanity when they have your texts showing you killed two and said you were going to shoot up the school next. I think a guilty verdict is already a guarantee here. The big question will be whether he is charged as an adult, as that will greatly increase his sentence.

 

[Ellie9]

CBC just notified me via my phone app that ALL seven victims are in critical condition right now. Oh my gosh. Please let them be okay. Please!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saska...sit-to-la-loche-following-shootings-1.3417814

 

[dotr]

After La Loche school shootings, US offers help to grieving province

REGINA – Saskatchewan Premier Brad Wall says his province is in touch with officials in the United States for help rebuilding after a school shooting.

Wall said the U.S. Ambassador to Canada, Bruce Heyman, called him Friday after four people were killed at the school and in a nearby home in the northern Saskatchewan community of La Loche.

“He noted that, quite tragically, the United States has more experience,” Wall said.

“He offered that perhaps those communities where these types of events have occurred in the past in his country … they might be able to provide some counsel, some support, some ideas around approaches for the days ahead.”


Wall said he has asked his deputy minister to “canvass that option with our American friends to find out perhaps what has worked better maybe than some other things.”

http://globalnews.ca/news/2473942/a...hootings-us-offers-help-to-grieving-province/

 

[CoolJ]

This guy will be back walking the streets of Canada at the age of 42.
Meanwhile in the USofA, there are thousands behind bars for 100 plus years on drug charges.
How can two purportedly similar western countries have such extreme differences in criminal justice system?

 

[KaaBoom]

The reporting is quite confusing. Some say he shot two brothers (i.e. not necessarily his brothers) but others say he shot his two younger siblings. That wouldn't tally with Dayne being 20, but then both the killer and victim being 17 seems odd too. No-one's saying anything about the shooter in family posts on FB so maybe the former wording is correct?

I don’t know about anybody else, but I find these Canadian censorship laws to be very irritating. Protecting the privacy rights of the accused is certainly admirable, but it seems to me that freedom of the press, and the public's right to know what happened is at least as important, if not more. The kid just killed four people. I think he kind of gave up his right to privacy when he did that. Regardless of what his age might be.

Listening to the way the RCMP and the Canadian news media is handling this, I don’t have a lot of faith that we will every know the true details of what happened. Both the cops and the reporters seem more interested in covering their asses legally, then in getting the facts out there.

 

[Ellie9]

In a way though I wonder if the Canadian laws prevent more mass attacks. A lot of mass attackers in the US at least claim they desire infamy. Usually you see this in a manifesto or social media, videos they uploaded, etc. If Canada is flat out denying people infamy, then perhaps this is a factor in the lower mass attack rate here?

But, I think adult names go up, and most people know the names of Canadian serial killers that have been identified. I guess there's a lot of various factors.


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[Sillybilly]

I don’t know about anybody else, but I find these Canadian censorship laws to be very irritating. Protecting the privacy rights of the accused is certainly admirable, but it seems to me that freedom of the press, and the public's right to know what happened is at least as important, if not more. The kid just killed four people. I think he kind of gave up his right to privacy when he did that. Regardless of what his age might be.

Listening to the way the RCMP and the Canadian news media is handling this, I don’t have a lot of faith that we will every know the true details of what happened. Both the cops and the reporters seem more interested in covering their asses legally, then in getting the facts out there.

The RCMP and reporters are doing what is LEGALLY REQUIRED of them according to Canadian laws, and specifically the Youth Criminal Justice Act. Violation of that Act results in very serious legal consequences. So our reporters and RCMP are not covering their butts any more than their counterparts would do according to US laws.

 

[Sillybilly]

If a young offender is NOT bumped up to, and sentenced in, adult court, the following provision of the YCJA are in effect on sentencing:

from YCJA:
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/y-1.5/page-9.html#h-29

(q) order the young person to serve a sentence not to exceed

(i) in the case of first degree murder, ten years comprised of

(A) a committal to custody, to be served continuously, for a period that must not, subject to subsection 104(1) (continuation of custody), exceed six years from the date of committal, and

(B) a placement under conditional supervision to be served in the community in accordance with section 105 ...

YCJA Main Index (for those so inclined):
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/y-1.5/

 

[kdgdid]

CBC just notified me via my phone app that ALL seven victims are in critical condition right now. Oh my gosh. Please let them be okay. Please!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saska...sit-to-la-loche-following-shootings-1.3417814

I seriously hope the report of all 7 being in critical condition is incorrect. My understanding was 4 victims were taken to RUH by STAR's immediately and 3 were taken to the local hospital and would be transported to RUH when weather permitted. Saskatoon is at least 6 hours away from La Loche. That is a long way to travel when someone is critically injured.

 

[Ellie9]

I seriously hope the report of all 7 being in critical condition is incorrect. My understanding was 4 victims were taken to RUH by STAR's immediately and 3 were taken to the local hospital and would be transported to RUH when weather permitted. Saskatoon is at least 6 hours away from La Loche. That is a long way to travel when someone is critically injured.

I am wondering if they are transporting via helicopter. I lived in a very rural town in CO a few years back and they transported via helicopter to Denver when needed. They had a name for them, too. Life something.

I hope the number is misreported, but it was on CBC which is usually a reliable source. Thanks slilybilly for added a link for me, by the way! I just hope right now that these seven people will survive, and then hopefully are able to lead a normal life.

I wonder if a perp who causes very serious injuries (like brain damage, paralysis) can be punished more severely than a perp who caused minor injuries (bruises, minor cuts). I guess I'm worrying now that some of those survivors may end up with lifelong problems if they survive. I can't imagine taking bullets to various body parts leaves you 100% okay after you've healed the wounds.

ETA: Realizing this after much thought - it appears on the surface like the two teachers who died could have been protecting/shielding the students, or attempting to disarm the shooter. Since the only two to die in the school right now are both teachers, it's starting to seem like these two teachers may have been heroes. We don't have the details on what happened, so this is purely speculation.

 

[kdgdid]

I am wondering if they are transporting via helicopter. I lived in a very rural town in CO a few years back and they transported via helicopter to Denver when needed. They had a name for them, too. Life something.

I hope the number is misreported, but it was on CBC which is usually a reliable source. Thanks slilybilly for added a link for me, by the way! I just hope right now that these seven people will survive, and then hopefully are able to lead a normal life.

I wonder if a perp who causes very serious injuries (like brain damage, paralysis) can be punished more severely than a perp who caused minor injuries (bruises, minor cuts). I guess I'm worrying now that some of those survivors may end up with lifelong problems if they survive. I can't imagine taking bullets to various body parts leaves you 100% okay after you've healed the wounds.

ETA: Realizing this after much thought - it appears on the surface like the two teachers who died could have been protecting/shielding the students, or attempting to disarm the shooter. Since the only two to die in the school right now are both teachers, it's starting to seem like these two teachers may have been heroes. We don't have the details on what happened, so this is purely speculation.

4 were transported to Saskatoon by helicopter on Friday. It is possible that the weather was bad and the 3 others were transported by helicopter later. Most rural hospitals here would be used to stabilize someone who is seriously injured or ill and do not have the capability to assist for long.

 

[KaaBoom]

The RCMP and reporters are doing what is LEGALLY REQUIRED of them according to Canadian laws, and specifically the Youth Criminal Justice Act. Violation of that Act results in very serious legal consequences. So our reporters and RCMP are not covering their butts any more than their counterparts would do according to US laws.

I watched several of the news conferences for this case. It was very different from anything I have ever heard in the US. An example of the reporters covering their asses.

Reporter: Have the parents of the victims given permission to release their names?
RCMP: We are releasing their names.
Reporter: Yes, but we need to have the parents permission before we can legally report their names. Have the parents given permission to report their names?

The reporters are having to establish that they have a legal right to report the information, they are being given. This simply doesn’t happen in the US ever. Because the US Constitution is very clear that no law can restrict what the press can report. So your Youth Criminal Justice Act, would be Un-Constitutional in the US. So yes, the Canadian reporters are having to cover their asses in a way that US reporters don’t have to. That situation just doesn’t happen in the US.

That said I understand that Canada and the US are different countries with different laws. You guys have a right to have your own laws, and I respect that. But I find that type of censorship troubling.

 

[kdgdid]

I watched several of the news conferences for this case. It was very different from anything I have ever heard in the US. An example of the reporters covering their asses.

Reporter: Have the parents of the victims given permission to release their names?
RCMP: We are releasing their names.
Reporter: Yes, but we need to have the parents permission before we can legally report their names. Have the parents given permission to report their names?

reporters are having to establish that they have a legal right to report the information, they are being given. This simply doesn’t happen in the US ever. Because the US Constitution is very clear that no law can restrict what the press can report. So your Youth Criminal Justice Act, would be Un-Constitutional in the US. So yes, the Canadian reporters are having to cover their asses in a way that US reporters don’t have to. That situation just doesn’t happen in the US.

That said I understand that Canada and the US are different countries with different laws. You guys have a right to have your own laws, and I respect that. But I find that type of censorship troubling.

Not releasing the names I find somewhat ironic. The community had an auction today to help defray costs for the families and on the local happening pg on cable TV the names were listed.

 

[kdgdid]

Article states that the shooter's family says he was relentlessly bullied http://www.thestarphoenix.com/news/...+what+happened+surprising/11673392/story.html

 

[Montjoy]

Because the US Constitution is very clear that no law can restrict what the press can report. So your Youth Criminal Justice Act, would be Un-Constitutional in the US.

rsbm

That's not actually true. There can be gag orders and outright bans on media reporting in some cases. So the freedom of the press is not absolute.

 

[KaaBoom]

rsbm

That's not actually true. There can be gag orders and outright bans on media reporting in some cases. So the freedom of the press is not absolute.

A gag order does not generally ban media reporting. It’s on specific parties in a case not to talk to the media. Even those are difficult for courts to enforce. The US Constitution is pretty clear.

First Amendment to the United States Constitution

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

That makes any law like the Youth Criminal Justice Act, Un-Constitutional in the US. But I do agree that no rights are absolute. But it’s pretty hard for the US Government to interfere with freedom of the press, the way the Canadian Government does.

 

[Montjoy]

A gag order does not generally ban media reporting. It’s on specific parties in a case not to talk to the media. Even those are difficult for courts to enforce. The US Constitution is pretty clear.

A ban can be more broad than to just gag specific parties. E.g.,
http://www.rcfp.org/browse-media-la...d-law-fall-2010/most-extraordinary-remedy-bec

There are other restrictions on the press as well -- most of which I'm sure that most people would agree with (unlike the sort linked above), such as HIPAA, which does, needless to say, abridge the freedom of speech and the press. (The same could be said for laws like libel.)

 

[KaaBoom]

A ban can be more broad than to just gag specific parties. E.g.,
http://www.rcfp.org/browse-media-la...d-law-fall-2010/most-extraordinary-remedy-bec

There are other restrictions on the press as well -- most of which I'm sure that most people would agree with (unlike the sort linked above), such as HIPAA, which does, needless to say, abridge the freedom of speech and the press. (The same could be said for laws like libel.)

That is the "most extraordinary remedy”, which means that it is not common. The article clearly states that "U.S. Supreme Court precedent protects reporters’ speech rights”. Which doesn’t seem to be the case in Canada. Press censorship seems to be accepted as normal in Canada.

Anyway as I have already said, I do agree that no rights are absolute, including freedom of the press. You absolutely will be able to find exceptions to it.

 

[kdgdid]

People inside the school report the shooter was picking who he shot....According to three sources inside the building at the time of the killings, the teen dared people to tease him about his ears.
The teen passed over more than one student who had treated him with kindness.

“Oh no, not you bro,” he apparently said before moving on.
http://thestarphoenix.com/news/crime/la-loche-struggles-with-why