Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #18

[SovereignSnake]

This resident who stopped in at the gun shop. It says he "called in." Is that another way to say he stopped in? I initially read it as he actually placed a call to the shop. But then it goes on to say he observed the teens in deep discussion over ammunition, the salesman's expertise and what they could afford. So this person actually physically walked into the shop. Nothing has come out about a bill of sale or a description matching Kam and Bryer as the two teens. I guess it's only been five days since that story broke but still, the silence from the media is strange. I suppose perhaps the RCMP could have seized any evidence like surveillance (if any exists) or invoices but would the media still keep quiet on it? I still find this whole two gun thing a little odd. Honestly, if I was taking one along on a road trip for protection I would only need one even if I was with someone else. Unless we were doing some hunting. I have to speculate, did Kam have a gun from his parents and Bryer insisted on having one too so they were "Even Steven" as they say?

 

[NJSleuth91]

I think it was meant they both have struggled in life or have struggles. Like the blind leading the blind scenario. Or don't take life advice from someone if their life's a mess. That's how I took it anyways!

Bryer's dad was long-term homeless and living in a van; suffering from mental health struggles severe enough to lead to homelessness and which had worsened in the past few years; couldn't get adequate mental health treatment even for himself by the sound of it, let alone attempting to get it for his non-custodial son; was in and out of the legal system for criminal harassment the past couple of years; was legally prohibited from contacting Bryer's legal guardian and "next of kin" to express any concerns they might not be aware of; and lived 2.5 hours away and only saw Bryer twice a month. Realistically, what could he have done to help the situation, besides just being there for Bryer and trying to be a positive influence (ie. them talking every day)?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Bryer's dad was long-term homeless and living in a van; suffering from mental health struggles severe enough to lead to homelessness and which had worsened in the past few years; couldn't get adequate mental health treatment even for himself by the sound of it, let alone attempting to get it for his non-custodial son; was in and out of the legal system for criminal harassment the past couple of years; was legally prohibited from contacting Bryer's legal guardian and "next of kin" to express any concerns they might not be aware of; and lived 2.5 hours away and only saw Bryer twice a month. Realistically, what could he have done to help the situation, besides just being there for Bryer and trying to be a positive influence (ie. them talking every day)?

I think he was doing just what you said, the only things he felt he could do to help in ways he could offer.

 

[Optics]

Why these three? why anyone, existentially, but .. why these three?

Why not? What 'type' of victims would you think they would have targeted? People in suits? People in tents? People in a city? There is no logical reason when one is doing something so illogical unfortunately.

 

[FactFinder3000]

[...]

Nothing has come out about a bill of sale or a description matching Kam and Bryer as the two teens. I guess it's only been five days since that story broke but still, the silence from the media is strange.

[...]

Somebody thinks he saw Kam and Bryer buying a gun. What we can take away from this is that the person probably did see a couple of young men buying a gun. But was it Kam and Bryer? Eyewitness identification is notoriously unreliable.

I doubt the gun shop would provide any information. I'd be interested to know if anybody tried.

In any case, the story at this point is unverified and has a decent chance of being false. Most Canadian news outlets just don't want to touch something like that.

I expect the RCMP will let us know where they got the weapons, so it's best to just wait.

 

[Trooper]

Why not? What 'type' of victims would you think they would have targeted? People in suits? People in tents? People in a city? There is no logical reason when one is doing something so illogical unfortunately.

why not the people who , so the story goes, didn't do well by them. Why strangers? unless, obviously, strangers are easier, a more successful target. It is odd that they didn't do all this killing in Port Alberni.. why not? It was going to end the same way, in their own death.

Where was the satisfaction in murdering strangers, a long way from home, when they could have made a lasting point in the one place that didn't serve them well.

Unless, of course, that was the point. Murdering strangers for the hell of it. But they must have passed other people on the way, yet, something about these three people irked them irrationally.

 

[srper2]

DBM

 

[SteveP]

so I don't think the fact that 'no charges have been laid for the murder of Mr Fowler, and Ms Deese' can be construed as it being therefore rude and undignified to hint that Kam and Bry shot and killed both these people , unprovoked and without mercy on the side of the road, and left their bodies there , in the open , to be found by the next unfortunate traveler. Murdered one, then the other, one a close up shot in the face to a woman.


These are horrible facts, that are in the public domain.

BBM...I do not disagree with the gist of your post, but Chynna having been shot in the face, close up, is merely a likely assumption, as RCMP has stated nothing about their deaths other than confirming they died from gun violence. Something apparently prevented her from having an open-casket funeral, and a gunshot to the face seems likely, but no one, including the man who guarded the bodies until RCMP arrived, has ever publicly stated that.

 

[Jan424]

Just want to point out that in one of the video interviews with AS he says that when BS worked with him he wasn’t paid with cash but with the computer. So if that’s the case it sounds like that was a fair exchange. Also, the airsoft was mentioned to be a gift iirc for Xmas which could also be considered a reasonable gift. If the cologne was not a code word it could have been a simple graduation/end of school year gift or possibly even a birthday gift as his bday was in early August.

Yes all true, but each gift was pretty expensive and I don’t think AS had a lot of extra money to burn. Bryer could have cared for his father and still taken advantage of his generosity. Total speculation of course.

 

[Jan424]

Yeah as I said, I think he knew Bryer was troubled and in pain, and was worried about him, probably for a while. However I don't think he had any idea Bryer was going to go out and kill people. I think he was probably more worried about him killing himself, prior to the killings. However, once the idea of his son being a murderer was on the table, I think he said what his honest assessment of the situation was, given his previous concern about his son's issues, and knowledge of how these types of cases usually go. And I think a lot of things also coalesced for him, like "wait a second, maybe the obsession with playing survivalist games in the woods with Airsoft guns, wasn't just a hobby." That doesn't mean he saw it coming though...lots of teenagers have similar interests, and lots of them are troubled, and the vast majority of them don't kill people.

I never said AS saw any of this coming. I don't think he did either. However, once they were labeled fugitives, his comments did not sound to me as stunned or shocked. As you pointed out, things "coalesced" for him. Then that would make sense as to why his responses sounded that way. I do not believe AS thought Bryer would go out and kill anyone. I feel for AS in all of this disaster .... and even though he didn't get to spend a great deal of time with his son, I believe he knew him quite well. JMO

 

[Jan424]

Also, people think it's weird that he got Bryer a $600 Airsoft rifle as a gift. But keep in mind that he didn't see Bryer for eight years. Maybe he was trying to make up for all the birthdays and Christmases he missed. $100 is reasonable for a milestone birthday present (the 19th birthday is important in Canada) and also combined graduation present.

I don't think any of AS gifts to Bryer were weird. I think they were sincere and heartfelt and likely, yes, trying to make up for lost time. Given he probably didn't have all that much money to spend, he sure did make a huge effort. I questioned whether Bryer could have been taking advantage of his father, perhaps without even being totally conscious of it. But who really knows, totally JMO.

 

[copkid]

It would have been very surprising if the RCMP had charged them, considering the difficulty for a coroner to establish who shot whom. So many variables, the RCMP would have been waiting to talk to the killers first.

SBM

The RCMP did not "wait to talk to the killers" before laying charges in the death of Leonard Dyck....there could have bee variables there too.

I find it difficult to fathom that the RCMP would "wait to talk to the killers" in any circumstance involving murder.

Is there any point in talking to killers before laying charges?

Are killers going to be truthful?

That is why evidence is collected and some day soon the RCMP will publicly release/explain some of that collected evidence.
JMO

 

[Link Haze]

It would have been very surprising if the RCMP had charged them, considering the difficulty for a coroner to establish who shot whom. So many variables, the RCMP would have been waiting to talk to the killers first.

Perhaps Kam and Bry shot Lucas and Chynna together, that is, they both , each , shot each victim. As a bonding dynamic. Not an unknown event. Perhaps Bry did the shooting and Kam did the watching. And admiring. Perhaps they drew short straws to decide who would murder whom. Perhaps Kam shot them both and Bry watched , ( and admired ) ..

Whatever the sequence was, it didn't disturb the partnership, as they both went on , some days, and some klms later to murder Prof . Dyck. It is reasonable to assume therefore that they were pleased with themselves, as otherwise, they might have split up , as a protest.
No such of a thing. They went on together, hunting down another person to kill.

The lack of a charge certainly wouldn't , in any sane gathering, be construed as a basis for claiming the innocence of Kam and Bry, under the circumstances.

Agreed. I too believe they were in it together, right to the bitter end. A pact formed from childhood. Stick together no matter what. Giving each other courage and most definitely, relishing their moment of accomplishment; perhaps celebrating their act by toasting each other with Russian Standard Vodka.

 

[CinNC]

It would have been very surprising if the RCMP had charged them, considering the difficulty for a coroner to establish who shot whom. So many variables, the RCMP would have been waiting to talk to the killers first.

Perhaps Kam and Bry shot Lucas and Chynna together, that is, they both , each , shot each victim. As a bonding dynamic. Not an unknown event. Perhaps Bry did the shooting and Kam did the watching. And admiring. Perhaps they drew short straws to decide who would murder whom. Perhaps Kam shot them both and Bry watched , ( and admired ) ..

Whatever the sequence was, it didn't disturb the partnership, as they both went on , some days, and some klms later to murder Prof . Dyck. It is reasonable to assume therefore that they were pleased with themselves, as otherwise, they might have split up , as a protest.
No such of a thing. They went on together, hunting down another person to kill.

The lack of a charge certainly wouldn't , in any sane gathering, be construed as a basis for claiming the innocence of Kam and Bry, under the circumstances.

Or, only one of them shot CD and LF and the other one was shocked and horrified that their friend had actually done it. I'm not saying I think this is a probability but anything is possible. It could be that only one of them did all of the killings, and the other one became somewhat compliant when he realized they needed to get a different vehicle (for whatever reason they decided they needed different "wheels"). Or, the one who didn't do any shooting was shocked and horrified when it happened again with LD. JMO

 

[copkid]

The fact that Bry's own mother feared him speaks volumes.

Does it not seem strange that if his own mother feared him, the answer to that was to send him to live with his Grandmother, a defenseless elderly woman?

Why not report him to the authorities? Why not try to get him some help?

I think there may have been some serious dysfunction going on in Mom's home too. JMO

 

[Gina20]

I noticed another story in the news today, and wonder once again if there was a copycat element to what happened on the Alaska Highway.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calg...l-calgary-witness-closing-arguments-1.5262406

 

[CinNC]

Does it not seem strange that if his own mother feared him, the answer to that was to send him to live with his Grandmother, a defenseless elderly woman?

Why not report him to the authorities? Why not try to get him some help?

I think there may have been some serious dysfunction going on in Mom's home too. JMO

I agree with you. Furthermore, (and this could be a stereotype that clouds my own vision) grandmothers usually aren't the strict, authoritative disciplinarians in families. Note I said USUALLY; I know there are exceptions.

But, if BS was non-compliant with set boundaries in his mother's household then why would he "succeed" in his grandmother's home? Perhaps because she didn't have a lot of rules that she enforced, so BS was more relaxed and happy. I believe the grandmother said that he was a good kid who was very helpful around the house?

Also, it isn't unusual for their to be strained relationships between stepparents and their partners' children. I am a stepparent and never had such issues but I've witnessed several families who endured a lot of stress when a stepfather and pubescent male child clash.

Disclaimer: I know that there are a LOT of variations on the stepparent/parent/stepchild theme. I'm only bringing this up because the discussion has only encompassed BS's relationship and success (or lack thereof) living in the custody of both of his parents and then his grandmother. But nothing is ever said about how acrimonious relationships with stepparents can be. It is an unfortunate fact in some blended families.

 

[CanadianMade]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

I'll say it.
Yes. I think they are innocent of those crimes. Unless I am provided with solid evidence that they are not, I will continue to believe that. I am sure their family and friends will as well.
As I have mentioned before there have been many times in which LE(RCMP as well) has named someone a suspect and later they were discovered to not have committed said crime. Naming them as suspects is NOT proving their guilt. In Canada, charging someone is not even proving their guilt.

<modsnip: personalizing>

 

[MistyWaters]

Does it not seem strange that if his own mother feared him, the answer to that was to send him to live with his Grandmother, a defenseless elderly woman?

Why not report him to the authorities? Why not try to get him some help?

I think there may have been some serious dysfunction going on in Mom's home too. JMO

We know nothing about either of the two’s past. Child Protective and Juvenile Court records are not public. But AS did make a reference to possible child intervention.

“He said he sent the book to reporters to highlight how a “broken system” has shaped him and his son.

“My son and I have been treated like footballs. It’s time for some truth,” he said.”
https://www.theprogress.com/news/b-...her-reveals-details-of-troubled-life-in-book/

Edit to fix broken quote/reply.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I never said AS saw any of this coming. I don't think he did either. However, once they were labeled fugitives, his comments did not sound to me as stunned or shocked. As you pointed out, things "coalesced" for him. Then that would make sense as to why his responses sounded that way. I do not believe AS thought Bryer would go out and kill anyone. I feel for AS in all of this disaster .... and even though he didn't get to spend a great deal of time with his son, I believe he knew him quite well. JMO

Agreed.

I don't think any of AS gifts to Bryer were weird. I think they were sincere and heartfelt and likely, yes, trying to make up for lost time. Given he probably didn't have all that much money to spend, he sure did make a huge effort. I questioned whether Bryer could have been taking advantage of his father, perhaps without even being totally conscious of it. But who really knows, totally JMO.

I thought Bryer may have been taking advantage at first, and kind of exploiting his dad's guilt. But after reading that he and his dad talked almost every day, I doubt it. Because to me that actually sounds like a very frequent rate of communication for any 18-year-old and parent they don't live with, and even more so given the history. If the objective was exploitation, he probably would have talked to his dad much more infrequently, only talked to him when he wanted something, etc. I think they actually were very close, and that Bryer probably realized his dad didn't really have anyone else and therefore kept an eye on him.

In fact I think it's even possible that Bryer was a lot more open with his dad compared to the rest of his family, with whatever was going on in his head, and that's why his dad made all of those comments about "he wants his pain to end" and all that. He certainly was open about the Nazi stuff until his dad shut that down.

Now that being said, Bryer probably didn't mind getting expensive gifts, and probably didn't question too much how his dad saved up the money for them.

And given how close they apparently were, that makes it even weirder that Bryer didn't text him until the last minute and gave him inaccurate information about where they were going (and his dad assumed they were visiting Bryer's cousins in a city in Alberta, which would be a less concerning trip for a parent than going to the middle of nowhere by themselves). I think it's entirely possible that Bryer did that to avoid questioning, because he knew his dad would figure out that something was wrong. And looking at the texts, it does sound like his dad was kind of like "...wtf?" from the beginning.

Plus we don't know if these kinds of presents were a regular thing or not. I feel like some people kind of assume his dad was giving him expensive gifts all the time, but I don't think that was actually the case. In context we know that he didn't see Bryer from ages 8 to 16, and the Airsoft rifle was either for his 17th birthday or Christmas when he was 17 (I forget which). So in context it makes total sense because that was their first birthday/Christmas together in 8 years.

Am I right in that one source said Bryer's mom was afraid of him? And that source was an unnamed (former?) co-worker.

eta: That many WSers refer to that one source, doesn't give more weight to that one source. One source does not a fact make.

Yes. And his own mom, and his mom's mom, and his mom's uncle, all said the opposite.

Does it not seem strange that if his own mother feared him, the answer to that was to send him to live with his Grandmother, a defenseless elderly woman?

Yes, that definitely does sound like the exact opposite of what you would do with a violent, psycho teenager.

I think there may have been some serious dysfunction going on in Mom's home too. JMO

I'm just going to leave this here (the time period this lady was discussing was long after the divorce). This lady's interview was quoted in articles which I mentioned before, but I never saw the full interview before, and it's pretty telling.