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I'll say it.
Yes. I think they are innocent of those crimes. Unless I am provided with solid evidence that they are not, I will continue to believe that. I am sure their family and friends will as well.
As I have mentioned before there have been many times in which LE(RCMP as well) has named someone a suspect and later they were discovered to not have committed said crime. Naming them as suspects is NOT proving their guilt. In Canada, charging someone is not even proving their guilt.
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Why these three? why anyone, existentially, but .. why these three?
Agree with everything you have said here ... it does make sense. I didn't realize at first that Bryer and his dad talked every day, and that certainly says something about their relationship. The more I think about this, the more I do believe Bryer wanted to avoid questioning from AS about his trip. I think he knew he might not be able to pull the wool over his dad's eyes as easily as perhaps his Grandma (just thinking out loud here, no proof of this -- I know my own Gram would definitely believe anything I said back in the day). And I think this way because, if Bryer and AS did speak daily, its unlikely he was just too busy and "forgot" to let AS know. As always, JMO.I thought Bryer may have been taking advantage at first, and kind of exploiting his dad's guilt. But after reading that he and his dad talked almost every day, I doubt it. Because to me that actually sounds like a very frequent rate of communication for any 18-year-old and parent they don't live with, and even more so given the history. If the objective was exploitation, he probably would have talked to his dad much more infrequently, only talked to him when he wanted something, etc. I think they actually were very close, and that Bryer probably realized his dad didn't really have anyone else and therefore kept an eye on him.
In fact I think it's even possible that Bryer was a lot more open with his dad compared to the rest of his family, with whatever was going on in his head, and that's why his dad made all of those comments about "he wants his pain to end" and all that. He certainly was open about the Nazi stuff until his dad shut that down.
Now that being said, Bryer probably didn't mind getting expensive gifts, and probably didn't question too much how his dad saved up the money for them.
And given how close they apparently were, that makes it even weirder that Bryer didn't text him until the last minute and gave him inaccurate information about where they were going (and his dad assumed they were visiting Bryer's cousins in a city in Alberta, which would be a less concerning trip for a parent than going to the middle of nowhere by themselves). I think it's entirely possible that Bryer did that to avoid questioning, because he knew his dad would figure out that something was wrong. And looking at the texts, it does sound like his dad was kind of like "...wtf?" from the beginning.
Plus we don't know if these kinds of presents were a regular thing or not. I feel like some people kind of assume his dad was giving him expensive gifts all the time, but I don't think that was actually the case. In context we know that he didn't see Bryer from ages 8 to 16, and the Airsoft rifle was either for his 17th birthday or Christmas when he was 17 (I forget which). So in context it makes total sense because that was their first birthday/Christmas together in 8 years.
Actually, when it comes right down to it, the police don’t care what the general public believes at this point in time because the results of their investigation hasn’t been released, including what ties the two crimes scenes.
Had they went with popular opinion, they’d have pulled out of Gillam area early on because couch detectives had them foolishly wasting their time, the suspects long gone possibly to Ontario...or Mexico.
SBM
The RCMP did not "wait to talk to the killers" before laying charges in the death of Leonard Dyck....there could have bee variables there too.
I find it difficult to fathom that the RCMP would "wait to talk to the killers" in any circumstance involving murder.
Is there any point in talking to killers before laying charges?
Are killers going to be truthful?
That is why evidence is collected and some day soon the RCMP will publicly release/explain some of that collected evidence.
JMO
Definitely a possibility, though I wonder why they would need to pull them from the van ... with all that shooting (back window even blown out), I guess I'd figure them to hightail it out of there rather quickly. I realize it is a remote area, but to not be freaked out by just killing 2 people and staying around long enough to drag those poor souls from their van ...Re Chynna. I the couple were killed in van and then pulled from van by their feet. Then pulled along gravel by side of auto. There would be skin abrasion . Maybe that is where facial damage came from. Moo
I really don't think there's any indication of "notoriety" in any of this. Giving their real names to Mr. Ste-Croix in Cold Lake was probably more of a knee-jerk, on the spot response; "Oh boy, we didn't think of aliases, okay, okay, quick just say your real name."
Not to mention, were they even expecting a camera of that quality right in their face at the entrance?
I mean Kam even says "thank you" to the cashier, I believe Bryer did as well. They even still had basic common courtesy.
Then look at Kam's Instagram for example. He hadn't posted anything since like February 2015! Even their Facebook accounts weren't all that readily used.
In all the interviews with classmates and acquaintances neither of the boys sounded all that extensively sociable or did they care. Kam and Bryer seemed more like they were only interested in one another. Like no one they interacted with truly "got them" like they got each other.
I noticed Kam's is "kam.mcleod911" and my initial thought was; Is his birthday September 11th? It couldn't be? That would have made him 20 years old in two weeks. I know we don't know his actual birthday, people had said on here it was earlier this year. Intuition keeps telling me it was late April or early May. Again, more speculation but just some thoughts I wanted to get out there.
I really don't think there's any indication of "notoriety" in any of this. Giving their real names to Mr. Ste-Croix in Cold Lake was probably more of a knee-jerk, on the spot response; "Oh boy, we didn't think of aliases, okay, okay, quick just say your real name." Then I look at the Co-Op footage and I got the impression they didn't care if they were on CCTV because they were feeling fairly confident no one had nary a clue who they were in that podunk town.
Definitely a possibility, though I wonder why they would need to pull them from the van ... with all that shooting (back window even blown out), I guess I'd figure them to hightail it out of there rather quickly. I realize it is a remote area, but to not be freaked out by just killing 2 people and staying around long enough to drag those poor souls from their van ...
I really don't think there's any indication of "notoriety" in any of this. Giving their real names to Mr. Ste-Croix in Cold Lake was probably more of a knee-jerk, on the spot response; "Oh boy, we didn't think of aliases, okay, okay, quick just say your real name." Then I look at the Co-Op footage and I got the impression they didn't care if they were on CCTV because they were feeling fairly confident no one had nary a clue who they were in that podunk town. They also could have been completely oblivious to it given everything that had transpired in the previous 48 hours. Not to mention, were they even expecting a camera of that quality right in their face at the entrance? I wouldn't have. I'm willing to bet they still thought they were "missing" and maybe even wanted to put a little twist in their supposed "abduction." I mean Kam even says "thank you" to the cashier, I believe Bryer did as well. They even still had basic common courtesy. I think the reality that the party was almost over was when they got stopped in Split Lake the following day and then ditched the RAV later that evening. I mean the RCMP didn't even declare them fugitives until the following day on the 23rd! Then look at Kam's Instagram for example. He hadn't posted anything since like February 2015! Even their Facebook accounts weren't all that readily used. More or less just there if you need them but mostly created as a passing fads. In all the interviews with classmates and acquaintances neither of the boys sounded all that extensively sociable or did they care. Kam and Bryer seemed more like they were only interested in one another. Like no one they interacted with truly "got them" like they got each other. It made me think of that token couple we all knew who stayed together throughout all of middle school and high school. Totally in love and really had no close friends outside their romantic relationship. Then either went on to quickly get married and possibly later divorced or broke up before college started. One more thing while I revisited the Instagram accounts. I noticed Kam's is "kam.mcleod911" and my initial thought was; Is his birthday September 11th? It couldn't be? That would have made him 20 years old in two weeks. I know we don't know his actual birthday, people had said on here it was earlier this year. Intuition keeps telling me it was late April or early May. Again, more speculation but just some thoughts I wanted to get out there.
I agree, I don’t think notoriety was a intended outcome or they wouldn’t have ended their lives.
Definitely what I've been thinking as well.And for me, the leaving of the bodies in plain view in the ditch speaks to an unsophisticated and inexperienced perpetrator, much like the giving out of real names as you flee across the country or making very little attempt to change your appearance.
If the bodies were in the van after the attack, why not leave them there, unless you were freaked out by the presence of bodies while searching for whatever valuables you can take. Placing the bodies back into the van or dragging them even further into the treeline might have delayed discovery of the crime considerably, since where the bodies were left were clearly visible to the truck driver passing by early the next morning. Leaving them in plain view with the van side doors wide open speaks to panic and inexperience to me with no attempt made to hide anything.
I really don't think there's any indication of "notoriety" in any of this. Giving their real names to Mr. Ste-Croix in Cold Lake was probably more of a knee-jerk, on the spot response; "Oh boy, we didn't think of aliases, okay, okay, quick just say your real name." Then I look at the Co-Op footage and I got the impression they didn't care if they were on CCTV because they were feeling fairly confident no one had nary a clue who they were in that podunk town. They also could have been completely oblivious to it given everything that had transpired in the previous 48 hours. Not to mention, were they even expecting a camera of that quality right in their face at the entrance? I wouldn't have. I'm willing to bet they still thought they were "missing" and maybe even wanted to put a little twist in their supposed "abduction." I mean Kam even says "thank you" to the cashier, I believe Bryer did as well. They even still had basic common courtesy. I think the reality that the party was almost over was when they got stopped in Split Lake the following day and then ditched the RAV later that evening. I mean the RCMP didn't even declare them fugitives until the following day on the 23rd! Then look at Kam's Instagram for example. He hadn't posted anything since like February 2015! Even their Facebook accounts weren't all that readily used. More or less just there if you need them but mostly created as passing fads. In all the interviews with classmates and acquaintances neither of the boys sounded all that extensively sociable nor did they care. Kam and Bryer seemed more like they were only interested in one another. Like no one they interacted with truly "got them" like they got each other. It made me think of that token couple we all knew who stayed together throughout all of middle school and high school. Totally in love and really had no close friends outside their romantic relationship. Then either went on to quickly get married and possibly later divorced or broke up before college started. One more thing while I revisited the Instagram accounts. I noticed Kam's is "kam.mcleod911" and my initial thought was; Is his birthday September 11th? It couldn't be? That would have made him 20 years old in two weeks. I know we don't know his actual birthday, people had said on here it was earlier this year. Intuition keeps telling me it was late April or early May. Again, more speculation but just some thoughts I wanted to get out there.
And for me, the leaving of the bodies in plain view in the ditch speaks to an unsophisticated and inexperienced perpetrator, much like the giving out of real names as you flee across the country or making very little attempt to change your appearance.
If the bodies were in the van after the attack, why not leave them there, unless you were freaked out by the presence of bodies while searching for whatever valuables you can take. Placing the bodies back into the van or dragging them even further into the treeline might have delayed discovery of the crime considerably, since where the bodies were left were clearly visible to the truck driver passing by early the next morning. Leaving them in plain view with the van side doors wide open speaks to panic and inexperience to me with no attempt made to hide anything.
Plenty of "notoriety" killers kill themselves...Columbine shooters, Elliott Rodger, Adam Lanza....
And for me, the leaving of the bodies in plain view in the ditch speaks to an unsophisticated and inexperienced perpetrator, much like the giving out of real names as you flee across the country or making very little attempt to change your appearance.
If the bodies were in the van after the attack, why not leave them there, unless you were freaked out by the presence of bodies while searching for whatever valuables you can take. Placing the bodies back into the van or dragging them even further into the treeline might have delayed discovery of the crime considerably, since where the bodies were left were clearly visible to the truck driver passing by early the next morning. Leaving them in plain view with the van side doors wide open speaks to panic and inexperience to me with no attempt made to hide anything.
SBMDidn't Bonnie & Clyde write letters/poems to the media and LE (can't remember)?
And the New Zealand government, in my opinion, did the right thing by not allowing the Christchurch killer's name to be published.It’s the general public who create their notoriety after their death. JMO