Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #18

[Gina20]

With respect to the burnt truck and the collapsed roof, the closest comparison I could find was this:

Google Image Result for https://i.cbc.ca/1.2208685.1382592093!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/original_780/bentley-camper-cp-5707240.jpg

This was in the Clearwater/Wells Gray, B.C. area, near where the Johnson and Bentley families were murdered in 1982. Their murderer was David Shearing. The truck was found in October 1983. Shearing had tried to run the truck down a steep embankment into a canyon, but it became high-centred on a log. He burnt it, as he had done previously with the victims' car. It had also been found burnt in a wooded area.

Shearing had fled to a new coal mining town, Tumbler Ridge, which was under construction. He was arrested there in November 1983. Tumbler Ridge is about an hour south of Chetwynd, B.C., and about 75 minutes southwest of Dawson Creek.

The truck had a camper on the back.

 

[Bluedaisy100]

Agreed.



I thought Bryer may have been taking advantage at first, and kind of exploiting his dad's guilt. But after reading that he and his dad talked almost every day, I doubt it. Because to me that actually sounds like a very frequent rate of communication for any 18-year-old and parent they don't live with, and even more so given the history. If the objective was exploitation, he probably would have talked to his dad much more infrequently, only talked to him when he wanted something, etc. I think they actually were very close, and that Bryer probably realized his dad didn't really have anyone else and therefore kept an eye on him.

In fact I think it's even possible that Bryer was a lot more open with his dad compared to the rest of his family, with whatever was going on in his head, and that's why his dad made all of those comments about "he wants his pain to end" and all that. He certainly was open about the Nazi stuff until his dad shut that down.

Now that being said, Bryer probably didn't mind getting expensive gifts, and probably didn't question too much how his dad saved up the money for them.

And given how close they apparently were, that makes it even weirder that Bryer didn't text him until the last minute and gave him inaccurate information about where they were going (and his dad assumed they were visiting Bryer's cousins in a city in Alberta, which would be a less concerning trip for a parent than going to the middle of nowhere by themselves). I think it's entirely possible that Bryer did that to avoid questioning, because he knew his dad would figure out that something was wrong. And looking at the texts, it does sound like his dad was kind of like "...wtf?" from the beginning.

Plus we don't know if these kinds of presents were a regular thing or not. I feel like some people kind of assume his dad was giving him expensive gifts all the time, but I don't think that was actually the case. In context we know that he didn't see Bryer from ages 8 to 16, and the Airsoft rifle was either for his 17th birthday or Christmas when he was 17 (I forget which). So in context it makes total sense because that was their first birthday/Christmas together in 8 years.



Yes. And his own mom, and his mom's mom, and his mom's uncle, all said the opposite.



Yes, that definitely does sound like the exact opposite of what you would do with a violent, psycho teenager.



I'm just going to leave this here (the time period this lady was discussing was long after the divorce). This lady's interview was quoted in articles which I mentioned before, but I never saw the full interview before, and it's pretty telling.

First, thanks for posting that video. I understand that her family lives near the grandmother and not the mother. She says that Bryer had been coming over for years. Only when he turned 11 did things get uncomfortable for her son, Ryland. Does that mean that Bryer had been primarily living with his grandmother from a much younger age and not just after he had returned from running away from his mother and living with his dad for a couple of months? I was under the impression that he only lived there for the last couple of years or so.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I see what you're saying, but wanted to add that notoriety doesn't always equate with the internet/social media.

In today's day and age with the "techie youth" and other mass killings there is a strong tie to the internet/social media for sure but it definitely is interesting that B&S stayed kinda "antisocial" to the end and didn't jump on the social media train.

Yeah but they were gamers and spent a lot of time on the internet. That's why I would imagine if they were planning to have notoriety, they would have used that to their advantage, and played up the "killer duo" thing with cryptic posts to each other beforehand, etc.

Didn't stop MSM media though, they were all over this story internationally it seems. So B&K did it the old-fashioned way like the old school fugitives did - relied on the odd eye witness account and newspapers.

They were already in the woods by the time most of that stuff came out. I don't think the co-op footage even came out until after they were in the woods.

Didn't Bonnie & Clyde write letters/poems to the media and LE (can't remember)? B&K semi did this with their videotaped goodbye. I have to wonder if they had cell reception if there would have been more documentation this way.

They were 70 miles from the nearest civilization, so there definitely wasn't cell reception. And since we don't know what was in the video, we don't know if it was meant to be a public statement, or just for the people who knew them.

Maybe notoriety isn't the best word (I've used it countlessly on this thread as I still think that was part of it), maybe B&K just wanted to get back at people in a way whether society, people they knew or their families. MOO as usual

Maybe. Or maybe this started out as a robbery gone wrong, or an altercation gone wrong. There's not enough evidence to say at this point.

 

[Moriarty]

I agree. Leaving the victims, especially Mr. Dyck, in plain view is absolutely huge in my book. Just epic level stupid in terms of getting away with the crime. Some might claim it was done on purpose, but I see it as "let's get out of here!" Pure adrenaline fueled panic.

I believe, in the case of the van, that the victims were either left where they fell, or were removed from the van because the perps expected to steal it. I have no idea why they would want the van, but that's what removing the bodies says to me.

I agree...I don't know why anyone would want to steal that van. Your own vehicle would have to be in pretty bad shape to make that van look appealing. But if vehicle theft was the original intent, that speaks to two perpetrators, since you wouldn't want to leave your original vehicle behind like a calling card.

(BTW...quick aside that just popped into my head but there had been speculation that Kam and Bryer had damaged their camper truck before burning it...could that have happened much earlier and thus the van WOULD look appealing? Seems far fetched I guess, but opening it up for some discussion...)

I think Lucas was shot outside or in the doorway of the van, responding to an attempt to enter, which is why he was shoe-less. I think Chynna was shot inside the van as she tried to get her shoes on and possibly scramble back into the rear of the van in terror after the first shot(s). That may be why she suffered a head wound and maybe why the back window appeared to be smashed (or shot) out from the inside.

I think the intent had been to take whatever was of value from the van (which partly seems to have happened) but the shooter(s) panicked and were scared of her body being in the van and dragged her outside and placed her near Lucas (approx 5 metres I think is what Trevor Pierre had said). That's why both seem to be laying in the same direction, with their heads turned the same way. They then grabbed whatever visible cash and id they could find and hightailed it out of there.
JMO

 

[NJSleuth91]

First, thanks for posting that video. I understand that her family lives near the grandmother and not the mother. She says that Bryer had been coming over for years. Only when he turned 11 did things get uncomfortable for her son, Ryland. Does that mean that Bryer had been primarily living with his grandmother from a much younger age and not just after he had returned from running away from his mother and living with his dad for a couple of months? I was under the impression that he only lived there for the last couple of years or so.

She said Bryer came over a lot from ages 11-13, and only after that did things get uncomfortable.

Yes I also was confused by that. I think it's possible that he may have been living with his grandmother on and off for years, before going to live with her full time. The interview kind of hints at why that might have been the case. I think you can read between the lines on a lot of this lady's comments. JMO.

 

[Zella]

I agree...I don't know why anyone would want to steal that van. Your own vehicle would have to be in pretty bad shape to make that van look appealing. But if vehicle theft was the original intent, that speaks to two perpetrators, since you wouldn't want to leave your original vehicle behind like a calling card.

(BTW...quick aside that just popped into my head but there had been speculation that Kam and Bryer had damaged their camper truck before burning it...could that have happened much earlier and thus the van WOULD look appealing? Seems far fetched I guess, but opening it up for some discussion...)

I think Lucas was shot outside or in the doorway of the van, responding to an attempt to enter, which is why he was shoe-less. I think Chynna was shot inside the van as she tried to get her shoes on and possibly scramble back into the rear of the van in terror after the first shot(s). That may be why she suffered a head wound and maybe why the back window appeared to be smashed (or shot) out from the inside.

I think the intent had been to take whatever was of value from the van (which partly seems to have happened) but the shooter(s) panicked and were scared of her body being in the van and dragged her outside and placed her near Lucas (approx 5 metres I think is what Trevor Pierre had said). That's why both seem to be laying in the same direction, with their heads turned the same way. They then grabbed whatever visible cash and id they could find and hightailed it out of there.
JMO

I think this is a very likely summary of what happened. I'd never really thought of it all happening in the van, but I bet you're right.

As I've mentioned on here before, I am pretty sure both Bryer and Kam are right-handed. Lucas being shoeless and shot on the right side of his abdomen (according to Trevor Pierre's gestures) does sound like he was shot first and likely either taken by surprise or perhaps in mid-conversation/confrontation with them.

Chynna being shot while only wearing one shoe and having substantial injuries on the left side of her face (again according to Trevor Pierre's gestures) suggests to me Lucas was shot while she was putting on her shoes, so she understandably tried to get away. Then they shot her from behind while she was trying to run. An exit wound could certainly account for all the damage to her face.

All MOO.

Edited to add: It would likely have been deafening in that van for all of them with the gunfire.

 

[Zella]

Morbid (and possibly stupid) question for people with more of a medical/forensic turn of mind than mine: Trevor Pierre, I believe, mentioned foam at her mouth. What would cause that? I assumed it meant she lived awhile after being shot. Could that also happen if you were shot while running as opposed to having a resting pulse or just casually standing at the door of your van when you're attacked?

MOO

 

[Jan424]

I think this is a very likely summary of what happened. I'd never really thought of it all happening in the van, but I bet you're right.

As I've mentioned on here before, I am pretty sure both Bryer and Kam are right-handed. Lucas being shoeless and shot on the right side of his abdomen (according to Trevor Pierre's gestures) does sound like he was shot first and likely either taken by surprise or perhaps in mid-conversation/confrontation with them.

Chynna being shot while only wearing one shoe and having substantial injuries on the left side of her face (again according to Trevor Pierre's gestures) suggests to me Lucas was shot while she was putting on her shoes, so she understandably tried to get away. Then they shot her from behind while she was trying to run. An exit wound could certainly account for all the damage to her face.

All MOO.

Edited to add: It would likely have been deafening in that van for all of them with the gunfire.

I've always thought they were killed where they were found outside the van, but then I can't figure out the back window being shot out. Unless that was to get them out of the van? I could think of this scenario a few different ways, I guess, but I do think they were wildly panicked after the shooting. Still, they managed to steal whatever they could. And, I don't know why they would want that van in place of their own truck/camper. JMO

 

[Zella]

I could think of this scenario a few different ways, I guess, but I do think they were wildly panicked after the shooting. Still, they managed to steal whatever they could. And, I don't know why they would want that van in place of their own truck/camper. JMO

SBM

I agree. I actually think they may have thought the van was unoccupied and they could pilfer it at will and then were startled to realize there were 2 people in it. MOO

 

[Esprite]

Also another thing I thought of...maybe they went to that co-op specifically because they thought the security cameras would be terrible, and the footage probably would be erased daily. They had worked at Walmart so they probably had some idea of the camera quality of large corporately owned stores.

It's worth noting that Meadow Lake isn't really in "the middle of nowhere," but is actually a small city of over 5,000, comparable to Port Alberni.

The Meadow Lake Co-op is a member of the Federated Co-operatives Ltd (FCL) which employs 25,000 people in many centers across Western Canada, with a total annual revenue of over Can$ 10 billion. www. fcl.crs

So, I reckon that the FCL can afford to provide state-of-the-art surveillance equipment for its member establishments.

Also, the myth of the polite Canadian is merely a ruse to fool the rest of the world. Best to avoid starting a conversation until after our second or third morning java. Thanks!

 

[Moriarty]

Also, the myth of the polite Canadian is merely a ruse to fool the rest of the world.

Someday we Canadians will rule the world...then you'll all be sorry. (couldn't resist...sorry...eh)

 

[Gina20]

Morbid (and possibly stupid) question for people with more of a medical/forensic turn of mind than mine: Trevor Pierre, I believe, mentioned foam at her mouth. What would cause that? I assumed it meant she lived awhile after being shot. Could that also happen if you were shot while running as opposed to having a resting pulse or just casually standing at the door of your van when you're attacked?

MOO

I know that it happens when people are hit by a car.

 

[CinNC]

I've always thought they were killed where they were found outside the van, but then I can't figure out the back window being shot out. Unless that was to get them out of the van? I could think of this scenario a few different ways, I guess, but I do think they were wildly panicked after the shooting. Still, they managed to steal whatever they could. And, I don't know why they would want that van in place of their own truck/camper. JMO

I agree about not understanding why they'd want the van instead of their own truck. If their truck running poorly had been the only issue the two boys had, and they'd had no intention or inclination to harm/kill anyone, they could have called their parents for help. I'd be willing to bet (just because its what parents do) that their families would gladly have paid for their truck to be towed and repaired. I even think AS would have gone to get the two boys if their truck was inoperable and they were stranded.

 

[Zella]

I don't think vehicle problems were a factor in any way in LF and CD's murders, though it could have been with LD (suspect that was more any vehicle that wasn't tied to them would do, though, than the truck wasn't working).

For a few days after the first murders, Kam and Bryer apparently drove a few hundred miles in that truck. If they were having mechanical issues, I don't think they were having significant problems to put that kind of distance between them and the first crime scene.

 

[Kiantra]

Searching for answers: Sense of unease lingers in B.C.’s isolated north as police hunt suspects in remote killings

I don’t recall reading this article. There are some interesting comments that I don’t believe have been mentioned here. Made me sit up in my chair a bit. Apologies if it’s a repeat.
****
Kevin Bailey, a 24-year-old Seattle resident, said he met Mr. Schmegelsky online playing Counter-Strike, and recalls him making jokes on Snapchat about cutting people’s heads off and, once, pretending to masturbate to a framed photo of Hitler. “I just thought he was some weird, edgy, internet kid,” Mr. Bailey said.

Another online friend in the gaming community who asked not to be named to avoid being associated with Mr. Schmegelsky said the teen talked often about Nazism and sent photos of himself in military fatigues, another of himself in a gas mask and one with a swastika armband and a replica knife similar to those issued to the Hitler Youth.

Accounts connected to the two men show Nazi, Communist and far-right iconography.

The online friend says he jokingly told Mr. Schmegelsky, “Don’t start killing people,” and Mr. Schmegelsky replied: “I would never do that.’”
****
Mr. Simonovic said that, when he saw Mr. Schmegelsky and Mr. McLeod at his family’s business, he immediately had a bad feeling about them in his gut. After 50 years living and working along one of the continent’s most desolate stretches of highway, Mr. Simonovic says he has learned to trust his instincts and that he didn’t like them on sight.

“When I see people like that I usually go by the back door and make sure my shotgun is loaded and ready. Fifty years I’ve been around here and I always have a gun in behind. You see this kind of people, you want to be ready if something happened,” he said.
****

 

[KR72]

Searching for answers: Sense of unease lingers in B.C.’s isolated north as police hunt suspects in remote killings

I don’t recall reading this article. There are some interesting comments that I don’t believe have been mentioned here. Made me sit up in my chair a bit. Apologies if it’s a repeat.
****
Kevin Bailey, a 24-year-old Seattle resident, said he met Mr. Schmegelsky online playing Counter-Strike, and recalls him making jokes on Snapchat about cutting people’s heads off and, once, pretending to masturbate to a framed photo of Hitler. “I just thought he was some weird, edgy, internet kid,” Mr. Bailey said.

Another online friend in the gaming community who asked not to be named to avoid being associated with Mr. Schmegelsky said the teen talked often about Nazism and sent photos of himself in military fatigues, another of himself in a gas mask and one with a swastika armband and a replica knife similar to those issued to the Hitler Youth.

Accounts connected to the two men show Nazi, Communist and far-right iconography.

The online friend says he jokingly told Mr. Schmegelsky, “Don’t start killing people,” and Mr. Schmegelsky replied: “I would never do that.’”
****
Mr. Simonovic said that, when he saw Mr. Schmegelsky and Mr. McLeod at his family’s business, he immediately had a bad feeling about them in his gut. After 50 years living and working along one of the continent’s most desolate stretches of highway, Mr. Simonovic says he has learned to trust his instincts and that he didn’t like them on sight.

“When I see people like that I usually go by the back door and make sure my shotgun is loaded and ready. Fifty years I’ve been around here and I always have a gun in behind. You see this kind of people, you want to be ready if something happened,” he said.
****

Sickening. I wonder what would have happened if BS's various social media accounts would have been reported to authorities?

Edit - in light of some recent local news, I'm gonna guess nothing would have happened, but it could have at least made for an electronic trail of sorts.

 

[MistyWaters]

Also another thing I thought of...maybe they went to that co-op specifically because they thought the security cameras would be terrible, and the footage probably would be erased daily. They had worked at Walmart so they probably had some idea of the camera quality of large corporately owned stores.

I disagree that because the two worked at Walmart they knew everything there is to know about store security.

Monitoring for internal theft by employees has become as great a requirement for store security as awareness of shoplifting and therefore low level employees are not provided knowledge by Security Officers. Walmart definitely would not be an exception and a night shift stock-person is an entry level job. In prior times a visible security camera was mounted on a wall, now they’re hidden. I think the two could’ve easily walked into a Meadow Lake Coop having no idea there was CCTV security or if there was, didn’t care because the search for them was focused on BC.

Even if they chose to risk using a stolen debit or credit card because the identity of LD was not yet known, then weren’t able to guess the code, they probably didn’t realize those failed attempts would be retrievable as well.

Nothing suggests the two possessed any extraordinary interest or knowledge in anything other than video games involving shooting and war. While they obviously weren’t total idiots, neither were they stealth nor ingenious far beyond their age.

 

[Jen-Knee]

I don't think their intention was to steal the van. As others have pointed out, they had a perfectly good truck with a camper. They may have seen it sitting on the side of the road, assumed it was abandoned, and being curious decided to check it out. Maybe thinking they might find something interesting in it.

 

[MistyWaters]

I don't think their intention was to steal the van. As others have pointed out, they had a perfectly good truck with a camper. They may have seen it sitting on the side of the road, assumed it was abandoned, and being curious decided to check it out. Maybe thinking they might find something interesting in it.

What was a perfectly good truck and camper became a burned out shell of rubble only seven days later. There had to be some reason for torching it. If they had fled to northern Manitoba in it instead, LD would still be alive.

 

[mmsshh]

Does anyone have a link of Trevor Pierre descrption of the state in which he found the victims? I don't seem to find it. Thanks.