Casey defense team files motion to dismiss case--Could KC walk!

[lin]

Change of venue and motion to dismiss are pretty standard in this type of case. There is no reason to expect the motion to dismiss to be granted. Change of venue is more likely to be granted.

The evidence tampering is more concerning since the defense claims that the state provided them with photographic evidence of this. I hope evidence tampering did not occur, but there is no way to judge if it did or not without seeing the evidence.

No problem:

"...All that remains are photographs in which investigators improvise a variety of hypothetical arrangements for the duct tape and the remains of Caylee Anthony."

Why would forensic investigators be doing any improvisation at all? The goal of a forensic investigation should be to simply record everything exactly as it was found and later theorize what may have happened based on observable, quantifiable and measurable evidence and norms taking into account the known facts regarding an event. Any improvisation whatsoever immediately creates serious questions of evidence tampering. It creates questions of how things were originally. How can it now be proven that nothing else was moved or staged? This throws the entire investigation of the body site into question. It's a very serious allegation and if proven, there is a big problem with this case.

I still don't see that as "tampering" with the evidence as alleged in your post. The only "tampering" alleged by the defense that I saw was the actual processing of the crime scene, as I responded to that post.

To give the passage you quoted some context:

"The only evidence to suggest a homicide is the placement of the duct tape
discovered with the remains. Police investigators photographed the duct tape and the remains before dismantling them. However, these photographs show various views of, and possibly various interpretations of the actual placement of the duct tape. The State seeks the death penalty. And yet they destroyed the defense's ability to examine the arrangement of the duct tape, the remains. and the only evidence that might remotely suggest a homicide. All that remains are photographs in which investigators improvise a variety of hypothetical arrangements for the duct tape and the remains of Caylee
Anthony."

(emphasis added)

1. That the defense alleges it doesn't make it so. To my reading, they have repeatedly made allegations they claimed to support but not only failed to show but actually contradicted their allegations with their "proof" of same.

2. Even the defense states the thorough photographing of the remains "possibly" show "various interpretations." They don't specify which "investigators" are 'improvising' or how any 'improvisation' is occurring other than the preceding statement complaining of 'various views' and possible various interpretations. There is nothing here to show that any specific tampering was alleged in photographing the duct taped remains from various angles to give a full account for the record.

I still am not seeing the allegation that the state deliberately tampered with anything other than processing the crime scene. I stand by my previous response that other than processing the scene I don't think any nefarious tampering with evidence can be gleaned from the defense's allegations in this motion.

 

[lin]

I don't know - tell me if I'm wrong, but this is just so LBK to me. So OJ and Phil S. So 90's for a defense tactic to be that LE investigating a crime scene is "tampering" with evidence.

Perhaps a Hollywood jury will respond to metaphorically spitting on forensic evidence and questioning its validity or chain of custody or contamination, but I just don't buy the fact that Floridians will go for that strategy one bit. At least I hope not.

As always, you're not wrong. This is a ridiculous farce and so far every authority on the subject has opined thusly, including local experts. Like the local experts, I expect the court to rule against the defense without much effort expended by the prosecution.

 

[Leila]

I mean no disrespect but when have you ever heard of or seen that the police let anyone who wasn't LE into/onto a crime scene until they have processed it. SOP since the beginning of time I would think. It's to protect the innocent as well as convict the guilty. MOO

And that's just it. This is standard operating procedure for ALL law enforcement. They seal off the scene of the crime and proceed with the forensic investigation. Only after their investigation is complete, do they turn the crime scene back to the owner.

JB et al seem to think they were somehow denied a right. No such right exists!

What I see happening is the defense is floundering. They have nothing. They can't come up with a reasonable defense for their client. They can't go with "somebody else did it" for a number of reasons. So they attack the investigation.

The defense would like the public to somehow believe that LE are the bad guys, out to frame their client. This is beyond ridiculous!

 

[Balthazar]

Improvise- Theorize

I'm thinking the defense chose the word they did for just this reason- they knew some people would fall for their ever present mis-use of words.

Improvise means:

1 : to compose, recite, play, or sing extemporaneously
2 : to make, invent, or arrange offhand
3 : to make or fabricate out of what is conveniently on hand

A scientific theory is an accurate, predictive description. What many laymen don't understand is that a scientific theory is proveable fact, not an educated guess as to what might be true.

In science, the word theoretical refers to an idea that has not been proven to be a theory. LKB could have used theoretical to describe the same thing, but it wouldn't matter. Rearranging items in a crimescene investigation is not adhering to scientific method. It is completely unacceptable to ANY scientist. And it should be unacceptable to the general public as well because it is a very serious breach of ethics.

If the defense can prove this actually happened - there will be serious consequences.

 

[nyvictoria]

And that's just it. This is standard operating procedure for ALL law enforcement. They seal off the scene of the crime and proceed with the forensic investigation. Only after their investigation is complete, do they turn the crime scene back to the owner.

JB et al seem to think they were somehow denied a right. No such right exists!

What I see happening is the defense is floundering. They have nothing. They can't come up with a reasonable defense for their client. They can't go with "somebody else did it" for a number of reasons. So they attack the investigation.

The defense would like the public to somehow believe that LE are the bad guys, out to frame their client. This is beyond ridiculous!

my bold

And, it won't work. The public will never buy into LE being the bad guys!

 

[whiteangora]

And that's just it. This is standard operating procedure for ALL law enforcement. They seal off the scene of the crime and proceed with the forensic investigation. Only after their investigation is complete, do they turn the crime scene back to the owner.

JB et al seem to think they were somehow denied a right. No such right exists!

What I see happening is the defense is floundering. They have nothing. They can't come up with a reasonable defense for their client. They can't go with "somebody else did it" for a number of reasons. So they attack the investigation.

The defense would like the public to somehow believe that LE are the bad guys, out to frame their client. This is beyond ridiculous!

bbm
Absolutely! You just hit the nail on the head. The defense, and the Anthony family has claimed this since day one (31). Poor, poor Casey, the Orlando Police and the FBI have made it their life long mission to frame her.:crazy:

 

[LC446]

Law enforcement does not allow ANYONE except investigators, medical personnel, DA, in other words, public servants, into a crime scene during processing. Someone is assigned to keep a log of each person's information that enters the crime scene.

Not once have I ever seen a defense attorney present. This is a unique situation in that Caylee was found after her mother was charged with her murder. However, even in those cases, there was not a member of the defense present. The way these situations usually work is that everything is photographed or videotaped exactly as it is found and these photos and video are turned over to the defense for examination. How many times have you heard a defense expert on a witness stand saying they examined something first hand? It is most always after the fact, from photos or video. They look at this evidence and then draw their own conclusions. Any physical evidence collected is always available to the defense to examine, just like it will be in this case.

Someone mentioned earlier that the defense is stating that the prosecution "improvised" with the evidence. Well, we have not seen these pictures and I bet we won't. They are photos of the remains. The defense is banking on that in my opinion, so they can feed us misinformation and someone will believe it. The jury will see the pictures and they will know that there was no "improvisation."

I don't think we have anything to worry about with these motions. But somebody has to earn all the secret money that is being funneled their way so I'm sure these won't be the last.

 

[whiteangora]

my bold

And, it won't work. The public will never buy into LE being the bad guys!

All of these motions filed by the defense do not bother me at all.
They can say the judge has 3 heads, but just saying it doesn't make it true.

 

[spiderlady]

This may have already been asked but is this the "Big News" that T Padilla hinted at earlier?

Everythime I think this case can shock me no further I lose more hair. I am going to have two hairs on my head by the time this circus rolls it's tent up.

There needs to be a team of men with little white jackets sent in to STOP THE INSANITY!!!

 

[lin]

All of these motions filed by the defense do not bother me at all.
They can say the judge has 3 heads, but just saying it doesn't make it true.

And they'd probably attach several pictures of the judge to "show" he has three, when in reality, the pics will show only one.

 

[Muzikman]

Improvise means:

1 : to compose, recite, play, or sing extemporaneously
2 : to make, invent, or arrange offhand
3 : to make or fabricate out of what is conveniently on hand

A scientific theory is an accurate, predictive description. What many laymen don't understand is that a scientific theory is proveable fact, not an educated guess as to what might be true.

In science, the word theoretical refers to an idea that has not been proven to be a theory. LKB could have used theoretical to describe the same thing, but it wouldn't matter. Rearranging items in a crimescene investigation is not adhering to scientific method. It is completely unacceptable to ANY scientist. And it should be unacceptable to the general public as well because it is a very serious breach of ethics.

If the defense can prove this actually happened - there will be serious consequences.

The defense will not be able to prove it - because it didn't happen. This will probably turn out to be one of THE most well-documented crime scenes in history.

The defense are, again, grasping at straws.

 

[Balthazar]

I still don't see that as "tampering" with the evidence as alleged in your post. The only "tampering" alleged by the defense that I saw was the actual processing of the crime scene, as I responded to that post.

To give the passage you quoted some context:

"The only evidence to suggest a homicide is the placement of the duct tape
discovered with the remains. Police investigators photographed the duct tape and the remains before dismantling them. However, these photographs show various views of, and possibly various interpretations of the actual placement of the duct tape. The State seeks the death penalty. And yet they destroyed the defense's ability to examine the arrangement of the duct tape, the remains. and the only evidence that might remotely suggest a homicide. All that remains are photographs in which investigators improvise a variety of hypothetical arrangements for the duct tape and the remains of Caylee
Anthony."

(emphasis added)

1. That the defense alleges it doesn't make it so. To my reading, they have repeatedly made allegations they claimed to support but not only failed to show but actually contradicted their allegations with their "proof" of same.

2. Even the defense states the thorough photographing of the remains "possibly" show "various interpretations." They don't specify which "investigators" are 'improvising' or how any 'improvisation' is occurring other than the preceding statement complaining of 'various views' and possible various interpretations. There is nothing here to show that any specific tampering was alleged in photographing the duct taped remains from various angles to give a full account for the record.

I still am not seeing the allegation that the state deliberately tampered with anything other than processing the crime scene. I stand by my previous response that other than processing the scene I don't think any nefarious tampering with evidence can be gleaned from the defense's allegations in this motion.

Lin,
All we can do is wait and see if the defense produces these photos. You might want to check out a video of the hearing yesterday and hear again what LKB had to say about the photos. If what she says is accurate, there is indeed a big problem.

 

[whiteangora]

Lin,
All we can do is wait and see if the defense produces these photos. You might want to check out a video of the hearing yesterday and hear again what LKB had to say about the photos. If what she says is accurate, there is indeed a big problem.

bbm
I wasn't around yesterday, where can I see/hear this? tia

 

[ziggy]

That was one of my thoughts too. KC should be afraid, be very afraid of walking out of jail into freedom. She is soo hated. Some nut would think it their duty to take justice into their own hands. JMHO

I don't think so. That's what everyone said about OJ and he managed to play a lot of golf through the years and enjoy his freedom.

We always think that's going to happen, but it rarely does.

 

[The World According]

If no one requests the tapes, such as the state for evidentiary value or the media under the Sunshine laws, yes, they are routinely taped over. That does not apply in this case. To not allow the state or the media access to those tapes under the existing laws, regulations, protocols, would be special treatment, plain and simple. Otherwise, there'd be a totally different motion pending.

Precisely. The state is not leaking anything, they are required by law to release them once they are requested, and indeed they have been and will continue to be. Baez is asking the judge to ignore the Florida laws and make special allowances for his client, he cannot and will not, Baez knows this, it is all designed to garner sympathy with potential jurors, and he should be ashamed of himself for making a mockery of they system. Amazing. The Anthony's starting up their media blitz again this fall is not going to bode well for the change of venue requests. I predict that the judge may bring in jurors from another area and sequester them there for the trial rather than move all the prosecutors, witnesses, etc to another venue. This way the effect that Baez is arguing for will be satisfied but it will cost the good taxpayers less. Dear God, can you imagine how many kids could have had college educations in that state with the millions this case has and will expend with appeals, etc? If I were a taxpayer there, I would be outraged that Baez wont even plea out the check fraud case and he is dragging that out!

 

[MADJGNLAW]

Casey’s Lawyers Want Jail To Stop Recording Visits , Orange County Jail added they have no intention of offering special treatment to Casey Anthony
Snip" Friday, September 18, 2009

Video Motion To Dismiss Case at article Link. http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2...t_jail_to_stop


Brad Conway, the attorney for George and Cindy Anthony, told News 13 Friday that his clients have no problem with their visits with Casey being recorded, but unless it has some value as evidence, they do not want it released to the public.

Jose Baez, requested that the Anthony's not go to the Orange County Jail, since their conversations would be recorded and released.


Orange County Jail representative told News 13 visits are always monitored for the client’s safety. The representative added they have no intention of offering special treatment to Casey Anthony, and she would be treated like every other inmate. :woohoo:

 

[lin]

Lin,
All we can do is wait and see if the defense produces these photos. You might want to check out a video of the hearing yesterday and hear again what LKB had to say about the photos. If what she says is accurate, there is indeed a big problem.

Will you please direct me to "a video of the hearing yesterday" to help me understand how you came away with such a different interpretation of the defense motion? Photos of the duct taped remains of Caylee may not be disseminated per court order so there's no use waiting for those.

On another note, in another motion the defense alleged the state attempted to manipulate KC into having a private meeting with her father and attached a portion of a transcript involving GA. Do you agree with their assessment and do you believe that transcript supports their allegation? TIA

See page 7 of the pdf; the first paragraph that begins on that page and the transcript excerpt which begins on page 36 of the Motion for Protective Order here.

 

[lin]

bbm
I wasn't around yesterday, where can I see/hear this? tia

Don't feel badly; I'm so far out of the loop --- I didn't even know a hearing was scheduled!

 

[lawlady84]

No problem:

"...All that remains are photographs in which investigators improvise a variety of hypothetical arrangements for the duct tape and the remains of Caylee Anthony."

Why would forensic investigators be doing any improvisation at all? The goal of a forensic investigation should be to simply record everything exactly as it was found and later theorize what may have happened based on observable, quantifiable and measurable evidence and norms taking into account the known facts regarding an event. Any improvisation whatsoever immediately creates serious questions of evidence tampering. It creates questions of how things were originally. How can it now be proven that nothing else was moved or staged? This throws the entire investigation of the body site into question. It's a very serious allegation and if proven, there is a big problem with this case.

I'd bet my life every single thing found was photographed immediately and exactly as found.

I also bet the "improvisation" done was investigators determining whether the duct tape could have been placed any other way in order to achieve the result that was found. They'd of course document any models to say "out of these 36 possibilities, the only way the mandible would still be attached to the skull would be if x y z"

 

[Muzikman]

Don't feel badly; I'm so far out of the loop --- I didn't even know a hearing was scheduled!

There was no hearing yesterday. I think what Princess is referring to is the video put together by Nifter Media about how the defense intends to defend against the forensics. It is all footage from some time ago.