CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #10

[UnicornDragon]

We have a lot of those around here where I live. A local man disappeared many years ago and rumors have circulated over the years that a "friend" of his killed him over drugs, money, or both and disposed of him in an abandoned mine shaft. They never have been able to locate him or his remains.

There's always reports of bodies in them. Homicide or suicide or accidental.

Susan Powell is a recent one and so far, no body has been recovered.

 

[esayer]

The question is whether the phone ping in Goodling was a "rustled" ping or a "stray" ping. Given the direction, location, and distance it seems likely that the "ping" was "rustled" from KB's "rustled" phone.

At this point I just want Peter Thomas to explain everything to me on Forensic Files. Right now.

 

[MsBetsy]

I agree that it is based on something found elsewhere, possibly in relation to that trash dump.

I’ve seen CSI teams return to the scene of a murder, on multiple occasions.

Doing it now, doesn’t mean it wasn’t done before.

They did it atleast twice in the Jayme Closs case, for instance.

Yes, I remember the sheriff saying it was common procedure to have another team of investigators come in with "a new set of eyes."

 

[Charlot123]

First and foremost, I want to make sure that everyone understands that I have taken a totally neutral position with this case. I have accepted the fact that I know close to nothing about anything that would allow me to get on one side of this fence or another. I spend my time trying to come up with as many possible scenarios that could've played out based on the info I feel to be provable fact, using my thoughts, beliefs and knowledge of basic human behavior. The desired end result, for me is not to determine if someone committed a crime and who that person right now. If I put any focus into trying to figure those things out, my thought process is altered dramatically. Basically, I just can't come up with as many and neutral scenarios.

Again, this is not what I believe took place. This is simply an idea that came to me after looking through information, that is all. What if PF did end up back at KBs home, probably to pick up the child. I am going to assume that he is able enter the home freely, with his own key or with one that is kept in a hiding place. He enters the home and finds KB unresponsive. There are a couple of possibilities that lead to him finding her in this state. A) Someone else had been there before he arrived and committed a crime against KB(I am trying really hard to avoid certain terms here. I apologize if it reads weird because of that.) It could've been someone she knew, a friend, someone who was more than a friend or maybe a complete stranger. At some point KB and this person got into an argument, fight, whatever and something was done to put her in the state that PF found her in. If I am going with a complete stranger that did this, it was a home invasion or something of that nature gone wrong. Or, B) she experienced some sort of reaction to medication, she drank too much and tripped down the stairs, she could have overdosed on something. There is always a chance that she really did have issues with substance abuse, she was having a difficult time with something and she went too far with whatever she was using that day. She passed out, stopped breathing and that was that. I am not sure which one I would lean more towards at this point. It doesn't really matter, one or the other was the cause of how PF found her when he walked into the home. Due to such recent cases like CW and the many, many others that seem to be taking place all over right now, PF goes into a complete panic for a number of reasons. He just found the woman he loves in an unresponsive state. He likely would've experienced intense fear when he realized he was going to be the primary suspect. He then realized his child would not have both parents if he was blamed for this happening. The baby would've been somewhere in the home, probably crying unless she was napping. That would add to the panic. Trying to figure out how to handle the situation, the pain that one would feel when realizing something awful just happened to the woman you love, the fear of being blamed for it, a crying baby somewhere, the extreme emotions in a moment like this would make it very hard for some people to think logically. If it was the overdose or substance related he might've given thought to making sure nobody found out how this happened. Maybe he did not want that to be last thing anyone thought about her. All of those emotions and that thinking could cause some people to be extremely irrational and impulsive. These two things, in an such a traumatic situation, could lead to someone taking steps to cover it up, to make it seem as though the other person just disappeared. Once it was all said and done this person realized what he had just done but, there was no way to go back on it. If he was to come clean about covering up the crime he walked into, nobody would believe a word of it. His situation would end up being worse than it would've been if he had told the truth from the beginning. So, it was too late for that. The following days consisted of the various things we know about through the press releases. He would've obtained the attorney, possibly being honest with that person, which led to him being told not to talk to any media or LE. It is possible they have been trying to come with a plan that would allow him to the tell the truth and also show he did nothing wrong. I could go on and on about how something like this would explain this, that and the other thing but, I hope everyone gets the ideas here.

When I give it even more thought, I believe something like this is very possible. I have read about people reacting in very irrational ways when overcome with intense fear and other emotions. I am interested in reading what you all think about this. Just me thinking out loud, that's all. I have no idea what happened in this case. It is baffling to me.

It is possible to OD on drugs, drink too much or have a withdrawal seizure and die. It is difficult (but possible) to imagine that PF didn't know a thing about these issues.

What does any normal person do? Call 911. And then he is totally exonerated.

The only reason to destroy the body is if he were the supplier of the drug.

 

[PommyMommy]

Sam Kraemer on Twitter
Investigators returned to Kelsey Berreth’s home this evening for more “routine follow up work”. We just arrived as they were leaving. Took this photo of her door, which was taped with 12/15/18 written on it. @KOAA #KelseyBerreth #FindKelseyBerreth

 

[Gardener1850]

This.

Plus, if PF killed her then we're talking Domestic Violence. And who knows what might 'trigger' a perpetrator of domestic violence. Could be she put the wrong brand of coffee in the cart. Maybe he believed she was flirting with a man she didn't even look at. Maybe he thought her hair was a mess. Any old thing can 'trigger' a controlling sociopath.

I find this line of 'debate' troubling and problematic.

Thank you I agree. I'm not meaning to be rude at all. But I am very sensitive to non-victim friendly questioning. Insisting on the possibility that KB bought something that could have "triggered" PF is the same thing in my mind as asking "What could she have done to make him harm her?" As you said Cardgame, in cases of domestic violence it matters little what the victim does. I agree. An abuser could be "triggered" by any little thing. Maybe she went to the store at the last minute and didn't leave Safeway until 12:27 to make her 5 minute car drive home. Maybe PF arrived at 12:30 and was angry she wasn't home yet? Maybe he was "triggered" by her being 3 minutes late and not ready for their date yet? Her mom was concerned about her hair not being done--maybe she knows something about the time PF was supposed to pick KB up for dinner. Does that explanation make any more sense? Does it satisfy our need to explain the possibility of a man harming the mother of his child? No. It doesn't. Because we can't climb into the mind of an abusive person or a murderer.
MOO.

I'll take my own time out now. Thanks.

 

[Wsimm]

This article includes an expert’s opinion as to what can be learned from that ping.

Cell phone data is key to cracking Berreth case, expert says

Thank you! Very interesting!

 

[MassGuy]

BMM. But it depends on how often his phone is used. 90% of my calls go to VM. I do use texts, but he is a farmer who spends a lot of time outdoors, so, maybe less active social life altogether?

Yeah. Any deviation from the norm would be quite telling.

 

[MassGuy]

At this point I just want Peter Thomas to explain everything to me on Forensic Files. Right now.

Haaa! I’m not volunteering to dig him up.

 

[MsBetsy]

<mod fix broken quote>


I'm still neutral here but the reason is NOTHING is making a whit of sense to me! If PF is under the LE microscope, then why are they also saying the baby isn't considered in any danger? They just don't leave a baby with a parent who is under a microscope!
We have very little new info except the trip to WM and returns to the ranch and KB's home suggesting LE is either trying to connect the 2 places or clear them. PF has a criminal lawyer but I'm going to say that's because of the search warrant. Other than that, nothingness.
I still say LE is handling this thing with kid gloves. Something is going on with this case that is delicate which tells me to continue to sit in Switzerland and wait until they are ready to give whatever it is, up.

<mod fix broken quote>
They cannot remove a child from a parent unless they have reason to believe that child is in danger. They have no proof that he has ever harmed the child or even that he has committed a crime. They can't remove a child based on speculation. Imo

 

[?mysterian?]

Thank you I agree. I'm not meaning to be rude at all. But I am very sensitive to non-victim friendly questioning. Insisting on the possibility that KB bought something that could have "triggered" PF is the same thing in my mind as asking "What could she have done to make him harm her?" As you said Cardgame, in cases of domestic violence it matter little what the victim does. An abuser could be "triggered" by any little thing. Maybe she went to the store at the last minute and didn't leave Safeway until 12:27 to make her 5 minute car drive home. Maybe PF arrived at 12:30 and was angry she wasn't home yet? Maybe he was "triggered" by her being 3 minutes late and not ready for their date yet? Her mom was concerned about her hair not being done--maybe she knows something about the time PF was supposed to pick KB up for dinner. Does that explanation make any more sense? Does it satisfy our need to explain the possibility of a man harming the mother of his child? No. It doesn't. Because we can't climb into the mind of an abusive person or a murderer. MOO.

I'll take my own time out now. Thanks.

Aw, just come sit beside me in the corner. I'm having flashbacks from previous threads also and trying (unsuccessfully) to sit on my hands .

I think it's great that it seems like progress is being made, even if we aren't privy to the details yet.

 

[gngr~snap]

Investigators search Kelsey Berreth's townhome in Woodland Park

WOODLAND PARK, Colo. - UPDATE: Investigators have confirmed they were searching the townhome of missing Woodland Park mother, Kelsey Berreth Wednesday afternoon.


eh....i hope they searched before this.

*i wonder if something in the trash brought them back to KBs house

Finally! This is where I believe that some answers may be found or more questions may arise.

I want to know and I have possibly missed it, how much time KB was taking off for Thanksgiving.
Due to people traveling to see family or having family come into town, would it typically be Thanksgiving, Friday, Saturday and Sunday? To return to work Monday or would it possibly have been a Wednesday before Thanksgiving to return the Wednesday after Thanksgiving?

I need to look at a calendar for specific dates!
Moo

 

[MsBetsy]

I haven’t had the time to go back through all of the KB threads in here, but did anyone post the video of PF talking about his working dogs for sale? Four of them were tethered and one was obeying his commands with cattle I think it was. I couldn’t watch the whole thing, it was chilling to me to listen to him talk about the 4 dogs tied up.

I asked about that as well, but I can't find it. Why was it chilling? Was he angry? Mistreating them? I saw some posts about it long ago but never got a chance to go back and look again.

 

[BuySellTrade]

At this point I just want Peter Thomas to explain everything to me on Forensic Files. Right now.

Hope you are not in for a long wait but I worry that the investigation may end up stalled. Then again we can be sure that LE knows far more today than posters at WS. Unfortunately part of the allure of WS is watching for real time breaks in various cases, breaks that may or may not happen and often turn out to be the unexpected or surreal. I'd love to see KB turn up alive and OK, even if the disappearance was of her own imperfections and doing Alas this seems unlikely.

 

[Moonracer]

Jmo psychic “predictions”..not allowed on WS

h

Back in the dawn of WS, there was a whole psychic section/ astrology section. I miss it!

 

[Snow Flower]

I was so glad that LE went back to KBs TH. I didn’t think they were there long enough the first time and if I am not mistaken, in the meantime, her mom and brother was in there. I was watching a dateline episode a few weeks ago where LE let the parents in the home where their daughter was found dead. The parents were now upset about it, even though they willingly went in. They felt the crime scene was contaminated. They did have a point. I wonder, if at first LE though KB had run off?

 

[Kapua]

What is the absolutely fastest, simplest, , with lowest chance of detection, for PF to dispose of a body?

What has been suggested?

Assume, for scope, he needed to do it in less than 2 hours.

Just so we use the same info, let's say their homes are 20 minutes apart.

It depends on the terrain in the area.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

Hope you are not in for a long wait but I worry that the investigation may end up stalled. Then again we can be sure that LE knows far more today than posters at WS. Unfortunately part of the allure of WS is watching for real time breaks in various cases, breaks that may or may not happen and often turn out to be the unexpected or surreal. I'd love to see KB turn up alive and OK, even if the disappearance was of her own imperfections and doing Alas this seems unlikely.

Oh, I think it's heating up, not cooling down.

Anyone else want to weigh in?

 

[MassGuy]

I was so glad that LE went back to KBs TH. I didn’t think they were there long enough the first time and if I am not mistaken, in the meantime, her mom and brother was in there. I was watching a dateline episode a few weeks ago where LE let the parents in the home where their daughter was found dead. The parents were now upset about it, even though they willingly went in. They felt the crime scene was contaminated. They did have a point. I wonder, if at first LE though KB had run off?

I do think that their first theory was that she left on her own.

Something changed that fairly quickly though.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

Are there any photos of the stuff that LE was carrying into Kelsey's apartment today?