CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #22 *ARREST*

[MassGuy]

I wonder if the nurse confided in her family, and they saw the reward money and turned her in. I’m curious if we will see the award money paid out on this case.

The reward money appears to be contingent on the recovery of Kelsey.

Until that happens, I don’t see anyone being able to collect it.

 

[BRRI]

The ID nurse could have unwittingly carried KB's phone back to ID. PF could have slipped it in her luggage. It's also possible the killer(s) live in ID and the nurse knows them. They could be the ones who took KB's phone to ID.

I can only hope that this is the case. I want to give her the benefit of the doubt so badly. I always try to in these cases. Always try and think of alternate theories. But as this sets in, I’m feeling that she’s involved. And likely was even involved in strategic planning when she was likely disposing of the phone.

 

[KBB87]

That is surprising - we have probate/guardianship judges, family law (DV) and criminal. these are two entirely separate matters IMO

This is what I assumed.

She’s named in this article about custody
Court continues custody of Kaylee Berreth's 1-year-old daughter to Kelsey's parents

And this one about the criminal charges
More charges, 6th Amendment debate: Patrick Frazee's court appearance recap

ETA: The second article actually ends by saying she ruled that Berreth’s parents would take temporary custody (from the previous hearing on 12/27, not the one today) So it appears it is the same judge for both cases.

 

[enelram]

Food for thought....
We don't know how cooperative SF was with LE during initial
investigation. We know her son was not cooperative except
for giving up his phone and DNA.

If SF gave vibes to LE that she was protective of info about PF
and wouldn't assist in the investigation, I would surmise this
uncooperation helped lead to the reason she was handcuffed
when they picked up PF at the ranch for arrest.

Don't you think this information about SF got back to other LE
and the DA and maybe the judge. That mama SF is uncooperative
in a murder investigation of her grandbaby's mother would not
set well with those deciding on custody. It should certainly be
a factor, if true.

 

[Rocky Mountain Mama]

Why are the Bs more entitled to raise K than the Fs? The Fs are just as closely related to the baby. If Kelsey had died in a car accident, would it be okay to pick the B’s to raise K just because of the very non-Legal rationale of “well, they lost their daughter; let’s let them have the grand-daughter.” Like K is some kind of consolation prize.

But she didn't die in a car accident. She apparently died at the hands of the Fs son. And the Bs are more qualified, in my opinion, because they raised a competent daughter to responsible adulthood with a good job and who was a productive member of society, whereas the Fs raised a son to the point where he still lived with mom, was hard on animals for a living, couldn't even get the gall to break up with a woman instead of harming her, and is now behind bars awaiting trial. So...yes, I do think the Bs are more capable. Proof is in the pudding, you know? One raised a responsible adult, the other raised a killer. Not saying it is their fault, but that K is clearly in better hands with the Bs. But that's just my opinion as a mother trying to raise my own kids to competency and responsible adulthood...

 

[Lhughessk]

Exactly my point. Who sealed the arrest warrant in the first place- judge. Who asked for it to remained sealed? DA. Who makes the decision if it remains sealed? Judge You said the judge was not happy with the sealed warrant. I was just reminding that is not the case since the Judge is the one making the decisions and trying to walk the fine legal line between protecting the rights of the defendant and protecting the witnesses involved in the case. So the judge unsealed it to the defense lawyers and decided to take a few more days- tomorrow- to decide on whether to unseal it to PF. If she was really unhappy with it, or concerned it could cause the case serious problems, she would have unsealed it to both at the last court date. She knows the law better than the media and the rest of us. My guess is she will unseal it to PF tomorrow. Prosecution got a few extra days of protection. PF's team of lawyers had a chance to read it and then discuss it with PF tomorrow. JMO

I don’t believe that PF’s attorney has seen the arrest warrant affidavit at all. If the judge orders that it be unsealed to the attorney tomorrow, even if she rejects the DA’s motion that he hide it from his client, that won’t change the fact that the lawyer is now behind the 8-ball and having to play catch-up in this case.

I think she was left with no choice but to delay a decision, what with the DA claiming that people’s lives were at risk. So she was forced to err on the side of caution. The concern is that it won’t be possible to cure the harm already done. Read closely what the legal experts said in the Denver Post article about violation of the 14th amendment and due process. They know more about the law than you or I do, too.

 

[girlhasnoname]

You would, but you'd also be shocked how few rights DV victims still have and how many their perps do. I work the DV field. I was just doing research for work (because some of us are working very hard to change all that) last night and read the following facts in a scholarly article about what happens to women who kill their abusers in self-defense:

“Results showed that domestic violence victims had higher conviction rates and longer sentences than all others charged with homicide, including those with previous violent criminal records.”

“Overall, a white female defendant with no prior convictions or criminal history who was convicted by a jury of killing a white person could expect an average sentence of 10 to 30 years. However, if the woman was a victim of domestic violence, her predicted sentence increased to life.”

“Because the conviction rate was higher for victims of domestic violence, all of whom were women, the average sentences were longer for them than for all others, including batterers and men with criminal histories.”

Citation: Jacobsen, Carol, Mizga, Kammy, & D'Orio, Lynn. (2007). Battered woman, homicide convictions, and sentencing: The case of clemency. Hastings Women's Law Journal, 18(1), 31-65.

In 2017, in one of many such cases, a family court judge in Denver County found in a divorce that the wife was a victim of domestic violence and that he was concerned about the husband's mental state and inability to control his temper, and ordered him to anger management and counseling. However, the judge said, since the violence was only directed at the mother, he gave the father 50% parenting time (physical custody). All true, I was there. And this despite the FACT that in 30-60% of cases where DV is present, the children are also abused. (Domestic Violence and Co-occurrence with Child Abuse) Those are terrifying odds.

All that to say, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if poor Baby K has to visit her murderous bio dad or some such baloney.

@Lore Listener Shockingly sad! I knew it was bad, but I had no idea about actual statistics in sentencing. I can't imagine what you've seen and heard, but I applaud your efforts in making a change. I feel confident that a judge will place primary custody of baby K with the Berreth family...I just have to.

 

[Trudie]

A perfect world for those who choose to be on the side of the Bs over the Ps, based largely on a bias against the family of the accused from what I can tell.

Why are the Bs more entitled to raise K than the Fs? The Fs are just as closely related to the baby. If Kelsey had died in a car accident, would it be okay to pick the B’s to raise K just because of the very non-Legal rationale of “well, they lost their daughter; let’s let them have the grand-daughter.” Like K is some kind of consolation prize.

I’m glad that the judge will have more information on which to base a decision on custody. Important stuff like providing for K financially and emotionally, which we posters have very little insight into.

You’re 100% correct.
By perfect world, thecF family know the Bs have likely lost their only daughter & would prefer to raise her daughter, their grand.
But saying one is better than the other is horse crap. We don’t know.
If K had killed P, our thoughts would be reversed.
Idk what type of info eutherbparty has to “use” against the other. It looks to me that the Fs feel loaded for bear.

Moo

 

[Jupiter05]

I’m going to say something really unpopular with regards to custody of the baby. Provided that KB’s parents are an appropriate home (and all indications appear that they are an excellent home) I believe they should get full custody. However, IF (and only if) the Frazee family members had nothing to do with the crime that ended KB’s life, I do believe that they should have visitation rights with the baby. Obviously the long distance will be an issue, and there’s will always be the pain of the tragedy of the crime, but to deprive a child of an entire group of people who love her, and vice versa is a different kind of crime. I hope time, faith and grace will peace to these heartbroken families.

I think that was beautifully said, @Hopefullyhelpful . And I agree. As long as they show only love and positive statements regarding KB and her family.

 

[MassGuy]

I don’t believe that PF’s attorney has seen the arrest warrant affidavit at all. If the judge orders that it be unsealed to the attorney tomorrow, even if she rejects the DA’s motion that he hide it from his client, that won’t change the fact that the lawyer is now behind the 8-ball and having to play catch-up in this case.

I think she was left with no choice but to delay a decision, what with the DA claiming that people’s lives were at risk. So she was forced to err on the side of caution. The concern is that it won’t be possible to cure the harm already done. Read closely what the legal experts said in the Denver Post article about violation of the 14th amendment and due process. They know more about the law than you or I do, too.

I’m not concerned. The judge knows the law every bit as well as these legal experts do, and she has seen the arrest affidavit.

She knows what is contained in it, and is acutely aware of the stakes involved.

She wouldn’t have made this decision lightly, and I fully expect it to be backed up by a compelling justification.

These people don’t know what she knows.

 

[SaranWrapPetunia]

I agree, the whole withholding of the baby really speaks to me about the kind of people they are IMO. They do not deserve a close relationship with the baby JMO

PF's family probably feared they would not get her back. Without really knowing the family, I can only put myself in PF's mum's shoes, and think how hard this must be for her too. A paternal grandparent can love as much as a maternal one. MOO

 

[Sillybilly]

Tons of posts have been reported this morning and this is not the only thread we have to deal with. As set out in The Rules, WS staff are not required to provide an explanation for removal of posts, so I will be temporarily closing the thread, reviewing the posts from this morning, and editing or removing posts without explanation.

Please do not message asking why your post was either edited or removed.

ALL members are expected to familiarize themselves with TOS and post in accordance with it.

 

[Sillybilly]

Thread is open again. There may still be some clean-up taking place.

Please read The Rules and post accordingly.

 

[MassGuy]

Custody hearing continued until everyone is privy to discovery in the criminal case.

The baby stays with the Berreth family, for the time being.

Legal custody is continued with the Teller County Dept. of Human Services. Again, next hearing set for Feb. 7 at 8:30 a.m. #PatrickFrazee #KelseyBerreth @KOAA

Sam Kraemer on Twitter


“There isn't a lot new here. Frazee's sister (the daughter's aunt) was present with Frazee's mom in court today. They're waiting for discovery in the criminal case before proceeding further with the custody case. Court continues temp. physical custody w/ Berreth's mom.”

 

[bellesnwhistles]

A perfect world for those who choose to be on the side of the Bs over the Ps, based largely on a bias against the family of the accused from what I can tell.

Why are the Bs more entitled to raise K than the Fs? The Fs are just as closely related to the baby. If Kelsey had died in a car accident, would it be okay to pick the B’s to raise K just because of the very non-Legal rationale of “well, they lost their daughter; let’s let them have the grand-daughter.” Like K is some kind of consolation prize.

I’m glad that the judge will have more information on which to base a decision on custody. Important stuff like providing for K financially and emotionally, which we posters have very little insight into.

But she didn't die in a car crash... their son, whom they raised, is accused of murdering her and withheld the baby from her family when they did have her. Not saying that they are to blame for their sons decisions but IMO there is a lot that needs to be determined before ruling that they are fit to raise another child

 

[Trudie]

Custody hearing continued until everyone is privy to discovery in criminal case.

The baby stays with the Berreth family, for the time being.

Sam Kraemer on Twitter


“There isn't a lot new here. Frazee's sister (the daughter's aunt) was present with Frazee's mom in court today. They're waiting for discovery in the criminal case before proceeding further with the custody case. Court continues temp. physical custody w/ Berreth's mom.”

“Legal custody is continued with the Teller County Dept. of Human Services. Again, next hearing set for Feb. 7 at 8:30 a.m. #PatrickFrazee #KelseyBerreth @KOAA”

It might be months before custody is fully resolved then.

https://www.dhs.state.or.us/caf/safety_model/procedure_manual/appendices/ch4-app/4-16.pdf

I found this during our break. ^^ regarding incarceration/children

 

[Emi]

Sam Kraemer on Twitter
Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV 2h2 hours ago
I just got off the phone with a @CoCourts spokesman. Right now, it's unclear if an update on the Frazee custody hearing will be released. If it is, that information should come out later this afternoon. We'll keep you posted. #PatrickFrazee #KelseyBerreth @KOAA

Sam Kraemer on Twitter
Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV 54m54 minutes ago
I checked the court docket. We still don't know the outcome of today's custody hearing. We *do* know another pre-trial conference hearing for the custody case is scheduled for Feb. 7 at 8:30 a.m. #PatrickFrazee #KelseyBerreth @KOAA


Sam Kraemer on Twitter
Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV 26m26 minutes ago
There isn't a lot new here. Frazee's sister (the daughter's aunt) was present with Frazee's mom in court today. They're waiting for discovery in the criminal case before proceeding further with the custody case. Court continues temp. physical custody w/ Berreth's mom.

 

[The Saint]

@PommyMommy I just assumed that KB worked at the coffee shop when she first moved to Woodland Park. I don't know the timeline. I see
I got screwed w/ not realizing that Joss Aviation is in Pueblo.

KB working in a coffee shop tells me that she was doing whatever it took to start her new life in CO. It also tells me that either PF couldn't, wouldn't or she didn't ask him to support her until she found the aviation job(s). I presume that she didn't ask her parents because I believe they would have helped her.

Do we know that it was Judge Billings-Vela who sealed the arrest warrant? Is there another judge who might have been on duty when LE asked for it to be sealed?
IMO

 

[BingoBongo]

The reward money appears to be contingent on the recovery of Kelsey.

Until that happens, I don’t see anyone being able to collect it.

Am assuming that first in line, is first paid? Sorry, not meaning to make light of this! So, whomever provides a valid lead as to her whereabouts, and is first in doing that, gets the reward?

How sad this all is. :-( I hope whomever provides info., is doing it for the right reasons.

 

[BingoBongo]

As with most narcissists, they begin their relationships with an intense “love bombing” phase. In the beginning, PF would be whatever he thought KB desired in a man. It’s much easier to deceive someone from a distance. This is probably why KB acted so quickly by moving to CO, because she felt she had finally found “the one.”

Snipped.

Your synopsis is exactly what I think transpired.