Deceased/Not Found CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #34 *ARREST*

Discussion in 'Missing Persons Discussion' started by GuyfromCanada, Dec 3, 2018.

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  1. Seattle1

    Seattle1 #LiveLikeLizzy

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    Bumping this post from earlier thread.

    Expert: No-body murder cases can be tried successfully

    “The interesting thing about no-body cases is, yes, they are very difficult to prosecute. But when they do go to trial, the conviction rate is actually quite high. Right now, it’s running at about 88 percent,” said Tad DiBiase, who successfully prosecuted a no-body murder case tried in Washington, D.C., in January 2006 when he worked as an Assistant U.S. Attorney. “So that seems very counter-intuitive because they’re really difficult to do.”
    [...]
    “There are two reasons why the conviction rate is still pretty high in these cases. No. 1, prosecutors are only going to take the tough cases to trial; they’re not going to take a shaky missing persons case to trial,” DiBiase said. “And the second thing is, about 50-51 percent of no-body cases are actually domestic cases.

    “So, typically, husband kills wife, boyfriend kills girlfriend, parent kills child; there’s usually a pre-existing relationship between the two people. The suspect becomes very obvious in those cases, though it doesn’t always mean it’s that person.”
    [...]
    DiBiase said a body is the most critical piece of evidence in a murder case, but prosecutors can present other evidence to get a conviction.

    “The body gives you how the murder happened -- Was it a poisoning? Was it a shooting? Was it a strangling? It typically gives you when it happened and it also can tell you where the murder happened,” DiBiase said.

    The main way in which no-body cases are made are through what DiBiase calls the three legs of a stool.

    The first leg, he said, is some type of forensic evidence such as DNA or blood.

    “It can also be trace evidence. It can be hair or fiber, maybe fingerprints. Some type of scientific evidence is leg No. 1,” DiBiase said.

    Leg No. 2 is a confession to friends or family. And leg No. 3 is a confession to police.

    “Most no-body cases are made with that kind of evidence,” DiBiase said. “Some only have one leg. The case I tried had all three. And some have none of them and those are the toughest cases. You generally don’t have eyewitnesses. They’re not filmed or anything or that type of stuff. You generally have one of those types of things.”
     


  2. The Saint

    The Saint Well-Known Member

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    deleted by me.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
  3. The Saint

    The Saint Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
  4. enelram

    enelram Well-Known Member

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    Could be true or not. There are photos online on a cattle dog site
    where the pic is captioned "Patrick Frazie puppies" w/ pic of
    8-10 BC puppies. No person in photo. Seems, at one time, he
    did sell puppies. IMO.
     
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  5. FromGermany

    FromGermany Well-Known Member

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    I searched for some information (AKC), but I'm not sure, if I understand it well. The owner of the stud dog has to register his dog (in our case "Willie"), the owner of the dam has to register his dog (X), the dam meets the stud dog ("Willie") 1-2 times for the procedure (at the stud owner PF), the litter (one of them "Sport") belongs to the owner of the dam, which has to register them. The owner of "Sport" wants to sell and lacks the papers. - So, I would guess, the missing registration has something to do with PF.
    If I'm wrong, then seemingly I'm too stupid to understand. ;)
     
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  6. enelram

    enelram Well-Known Member

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    I think you're right. Maybe the sire was never registered. Some
    cow dogs are mixed breeds and those wouldn't be registered
    w/ AKC.
     
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  7. WildWest

    WildWest Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for pointing that out for me.
     
  8. justaparent

    justaparent Well-Known Member

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    We have Brussels Griffons now and have had other breeds in the past. It isn’t unusual for a breeder to sell the puppies at two different prices. A lower price if you are buying as a pet, which we do, but a higher price if you intend to breed.

    The agreement is usually to provide papers to pet owners after giving them X amount of time to spay or neuter. Owners who will breed would get the papers early.

    Good breeders are pretty picky about which of their “offspring” are used to (officially) breed. I’m sure some people buy pets and then use them to breed but they often won’t have papers.

    So it’s hard to say which category the person who posted falls in, and whether or not the papers were due them.
     
  9. allboys

    allboys Well-Known Member

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    Yep. Brad Cooper searched google maps for the ultimate dump site of his wife, Nancy Cooper’s, body. But he’s also getting out of prison soon because of that evidence. (Time stamps on the computer appeared altered according to some experts his attorney’s hired during his trial).

    So, I hope the computer forensic teams are being ultra careful with all of the digital evidence (and ALL evidence) in this case. I DO NOT want to read about PF getting out of prison some day. MOO
     
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  10. Chocoholic

    Chocoholic Well-Known Member

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    I ❤️ you @PommyMommy and your at the ready links!
     
  11. GordianKnot

    GordianKnot Well-Known Member

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    Question: If KK/KL or whatever our resident <modsnipped> is calling herself these days ends up being arrested (fingers crossed!), will the warrant and arrest/booking come out of Twin Falls, ID, or from Teller County, CO? Just trying to figure out which sites need to be monitored for (fingers crossed!) new arrests.

    Anyone know? @Mercedes,@riolove77, do either of you know whether ID or CO would be the state that would pick up (extra manpower required!) KK/KL and toss (again, extra manpower required!) her in the hoosegow if charges end up being filed against her?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 4, 2019
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  12. GordianKnot

    GordianKnot Well-Known Member

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    Choc, @PommyMommy is the best!
    She always seems to have the info needed right there at her fingertips, and both her links and her insights are always right on point.

    Thanks for all you do, Pom-Mom!
     
  13. Dave F.

    Dave F. Has left the building.

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    I doubt if they are looking for for murder weapon. What's their description of it? Looking for the purse.....yes. I believe every one they find will get special attention. As I've posted before, when it's actually in trial, prosecution has to establish that LE exhausted the reasonable search possibilities. <modsnip - discussing other forums> They opted instead to search a property 15 miles away with backhoes and cadaver dogs, then go back and have the nation's best CSI search KB's 1040 sq ft condo for a crime scene that had not yet been discovered. There are huge gaps in investigative logic, and the regional dump is an excellent place to start filling in the gaps. Iif the search yeilds nothing at all, it will tie the expansive and exhaustive PF property search for yield. I think the jury will consider that they at least made the effort to find her. IMO
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 31, 2019
  14. GordianKnot

    GordianKnot Well-Known Member

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    Despite the fact that we've been cautioned not to get overly invested in the Feb. 19 prob. cause hearing date,
    I do just want to point out the fact that barring any last-minute changes, we now only have 19 more days until the scheduled hearing.

    Tick-tock, PF!

    Tick. Tock.
     
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  15. Noharg

    Noharg Well-Known Member

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    What is your opinion on what info will be revealed Feb 19th? MOO is we will then know the 5 W’s and How.
     
  16. Irmese

    Irmese Well-Known Member

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  17. riolove77

    riolove77 Verified Attorney

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    If she’s in Idaho, they’d pick her up and then she would be extradited to Colorado.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 4, 2019
  18. Chocoholic

    Chocoholic Well-Known Member

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    I think we’ve all heard the saying, “if he cheats on her with you he’ll cheat on you too”. So if he solicits you for her murder...... what in the world could this woman have been thinking??!!

    I know many of you have said it, but this could have so easily been prevented! It just kills me to think of how her family must feel knowing that.

    MOO
     
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  19. Dave F.

    Dave F. Has left the building.

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    I don't think anything at all will be revealed to the public. There's a gag order in place, and no motion to remove it has been filed. IMO
     
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  20. kay74

    kay74 Well-Known Member

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    He's getting out already!
     
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