CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #43 *ARREST*

[SandyQLS]

And that wasn't even the phone that she had previously. Because the day that she got back, she burned that phone in her front yard if I recall correctly. Is that right?

Perhaps she was concerned that all of her applications and email and Facebook Etc was connected to her old accounts that they could easily get? Perhaps that's why she was hesitant.

Also, her husband gave her email address that he knew of for application signups excetera, but my guess is she had a couple of throw away email accounts also. I hope they have them all with Google.

In another case I followed, they said that when you buy a burner phone, you have to sign up with an email address or a credit card or such so that it can be tracked that way as far as who owns the phone.

does anybody have experience and knowledge in that area? They could have tracked all of her burner phones through such?

E.g. if they had Tower dumps they would not be able to subpoena each and every owner unless they had an owner that they wanted more information on?

ETA typos

You can buy a phone for $29.95 and unlimited calls & texts for about $25, or also with 6GB of data/internet about $35, per month, on cards with a sealed activation code, at any Walmart. You pay cash. You call the 800 number on the card, enter the activation code. No name, no credit/debit card, no bill, no address, no plan. You can choose any area code you want. Buy a new card every month to refill. Totally anonymous except for the towers you hit, the numbers you call and text, the websites or email you choose to access. Everything can be constantly deleted. Texts can be entirely symbolic with meaning only known to the sender and recipient: ⚄ A deniable communication meaning what from a phone with no named owner.

For example, a drug dealer would be buying new phones and cards all the time everywhere he goes. He might let them "cool" for a time period before using them so he's not on surveillance video purchasing them. He would only use a phone briefly then toss it; just a cost of doing business.

Just my opinion

 

[acutename]

The weather was pretty good that Thanksgiving weekend and we've estimated the driving time from Twin Falls, ID to Woodland Park, CO would have been about 8 hours each way.

8 hours EACH WAY

IMO, she is not calling LE during this time because she is too involved in the goings-on (already probably an accomplice) and she is embarrassed and guilty. Of course it just gets worse when she goes to the crime scene, but she is not "rational" throughout this.

 

[lindaromas]

Do you believe the CBI and FBI wouldn't have thought of that?

I'm sure they have.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Good thinking post^. I could see KK keeping the tooth she claims to have thrown away... for a few reasons, none of them palatable.

I am concerned about an RN's access to the bodily fluids of patients. It would not be difficult to acquire, for example, an extra tube of blood. In trying to think like KK and assess her statements that she intentionally left blood for LE to find, I believe she knows she screwed up and missed spots of KB blood. I wonder if what she really did was leave unknown male DNA to find, perhaps from a patient in Twin Falls. Perhaps it's a subconscious slip or tell that KK says she left blood for LE to find and it means she planted blood.

The unknown male DNA by the sink was a large enough sample to have been tested already. And CBI Agent Slater stated that there is still evidence being tested plus the consumptive testing material is up for a motion hearing March 4.

Did anyone read anything anywhere about the type of material that constitutes this unknown male DNA? Blood, semen, urine?

Ref:

Sam Kraemer on Twitter
Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV2m2 minutes ago
Dec. 6 search then processed Kelsey Berreth’s home with more DNA experts. Defense asking specifics about colors in Kelsey’s bathroom. Only blood spot visible to eye was in toilet.

Sam Kraemer on Twitter
Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV3m3 minutes ago
Defense points out the DNA of another male was found in Kelsey’s sink. Tests revealed it wasn’t that of Patrick Frazee.

From:
Deceased/Not Found - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #39 *ARREST*

The sink and male DNA not of PF???? Despite eager cleaning by mistress nurse?

 

[Kapua]

I believe I missed it but how do we know for certain that KK was not in Colorado on November 22? Is this true fact or is this from testimony? Testimony doesn’t prove a thing when it comes from the lying mouth of a psychopath.

She borrowed the car from her friend MG on Nov. 23, so this is corroborated by at least one witness, MG.

 

[InvSmith]

The plots on her life may have started in September, but the anger and hatred towards her started long before. I know she felt it, probably tried with all of her heart to fix the problems. The depression center/retreat was a way for her to regroup and talk through the issues she needed to resolve to move on with her life.

I think, that seeing the center as an inpatient center is misinterpreting it, from the advertisements, it appears to be a retreat with emphasis on depression. I think any of us dealing psychotic murderers, would seek help through our family, church, and friends. We might not be willing to entirely expose our full situation to those closest to us. Since they weren’t married, she may not have felt that a lawyer could help her.

It is interesting to read some of PF's comments on depression. Many people that have not dealt with depression associate it with sadness and suicide ideation. These can be manifestations of depression but in general a person is experiencing lack of concentration, lack of energy, lack of motivation, fatigue, muscle aches, delayed motor skills. There really is a stigma and I am happy to see KB received help. Episodes or a lifetime of depression or anxiety cannot be managed just by willpower. I am so glad she had her faith and family.

 

[tmar]

Looks like SF2 needs to be retrained when it comes to suspicious behavior, or does that apply to everyone else but family?

I can't believe SF2, (a Police Officer) would not find PF's behaviour suspicious, after PF had, in a frenzy, just murdered KB.
Their mother also was present, but she isn't commenting.
This is most strange.
Can someone, act calm after such an event?
Unless, throughout PF's life, his family are aware of ugly incidents in PF's life, where later, he acts calmly.
MOO.

 

[SandyQLS]

Wondering if flights in and out of Idaho/Colorado have been checked, because I have a funny feeling KKL was there on Thanksgiving also.

Edit/add All this talk of driving all the time might be a way to overlook any flights.

ITA. I have wondered if the reason they had her fly to Colorado Springs for the 4.5 hour audio-video interview was so that she would have to pass through the airport TSA full body scan, appear on multiple high security cameras, etc. so that the FBI could compare her images to airport histories. KK has such helpful friends in ID, would one of them allow her to fly on their identification?

Who is TM that resembles KK? I missed that somewhere.

 

[ajaylee]

I can't believe SF2, (a Police Officer) would not find PF's behaviour suspicious, after PF had, in a frenzy, just murdered KB.
Their mother also was present, but she isn't commenting.
This is most strange.
Can someone, act calm after such an event?
Unless, throughout PF's life, his family are aware of ugly incidents in PF's life, where later, he acts calmly.
MOO.

He may just be a moody, temperamental person most of the time (when he's not putting on a show for folks like Mr. Cline). Remember, he's also been described as always mad about something.

 

[Jessthinkin]

I can't believe SF2, (a Police Officer) would not find PF's behaviour suspicious, after PF had, in a frenzy, just murdered KB.
Their mother also was present, but she isn't commenting.
This is most strange.
Can someone, act calm after such an event?
Unless, throughout PF's life, his family are aware of ugly incidents in PF's life, where later, he acts calmly.
MOO.

BBM
Psychopaths can... :/

 

[dixiegirl1035]

• Between 12:54 p.m. - 1:17 p.m. PF was seen on Walmart & Williams Furniture Store surveillance, and on Arlo camera by KB’s neighbor caught KB, baby K and PF at KB’s door at 1:34 p.m.

Thank you for that 1:34 p.m. notation, as I have always had in my notes as 1:24 that he entered her condo.

I did not have a link so I will correct my notes as to 1:34 unless somebody down thread corrects us both?

 

[Herat]

I can't believe SF2, (a Police Officer) would not find PF's behaviour suspicious, after PF had, in a frenzy, just murdered KB.
Their mother also was present, but she isn't commenting.
This is most strange.
Can someone, act calm after such an event?
Unless, throughout PF's life, his family are aware of ugly incidents in PF's life, where later, he acts calmly.
MOO.

The Frazee family dynamic appears to me to be the typical Narcissist parent-child relationship between MomSF and PF. The Narcissistic parent develops the Narcissistic child and they have a special relationship that the other siblings know they are never privy to ("mom always liked you" best to the nth degree). The other kids never get away with the stuff that the Narcissistic child does. The N child never seems to suffer punishment or lack of attention that the other children do. It can easily lead to the other children being very much estranged from the N child.

I think Mom SF and PF are just that Narcissistic pair and he can only live in her arena, as no one else would put up with him. Somehow, he's evolved the sociopathic side, too.

Do we even have any indication that PF has ever lived away from SF independently?

I think in the T-Day scenario, there's very little in PF's behaviour that SF2 would be able to say was unusual, as it's all part of PF's stuff. Calm, angry, agitated, subdued, it's just all how narcissist / sociopath PF is different than the others and that in itself is normal for him.

 

[Seattle1]

And you have just defined a relationship with a Narcissist. The features are striking in their classic behavior. Love bombing, isolation, the degrading, the manipulation.

If you are unfamiliar with how a Narcissist thinks and behaves, this site might have some articles worth reading about. Once you have experienced this, you recognize it Instantly.

Knowing the Narcissist

And if you're familiar with this personality, we know that KK was very useful tool for PF's "triangulation" to try pushing KB over the edge. There's no way that KB didn't know of this interloper -- maybe not her name, but KB knew of her. MOO

 

[Herat]

It is interesting to read some of PF's comments on depression. Many people that have not dealt with depression associate it with sadness and suicide ideation. These can be manifestations of depression but in general a person is experiencing lack of concentration, lack of energy, lack of motivation, fatigue, muscle aches, delayed motor skills. There really is a stigma and I am happy to see KB received help. Episodes or a lifetime of depression or anxiety cannot be managed just by willpower. I am so glad she had her faith and family.

And I just remembered that it's very typical for a Narcissist to portray an ex-partner as crazy, depressed, drug-abusing, alcoholic, nymphomanic, abusive, incompetent, foolish, etc

<modsnipped personal anecdote>

 

[MemPat]

IMO, she is not calling LE during this time because she is too involved in the goings-on (already probably an accomplice) and she is embarrassed and guilty. Of course it just gets worse when she goes to the crime scene, but she is not "rational" throughout this.

I don't buy that KK was irrational at the crime scene.

Our worst imaginations can't picture a crime scene with blood spattered everywhere and smelling awful, yet KK walked in with all her gear, changed into her "hazmat" suit and scrubbed for almost 4 hours.

I'm not mentioning the 800 mile drive, the motel layover for sleep and probably a fast food bonanza before the clean-up and, of course, after.

I'm also not mentioning the machinations to borrow a car, keep her plans from her "sort of ex" husband and helping PF with hiding and burning the "tote". Do you know how a dead body smells by the second day?

KK was rational.

And really, really evil.

 

[acutename]

I have been (thankfully, in the past) and have tried to help, the kind of woman who "passively" accepts.

Even if you have someone close to you who points out the reality of abusive situations, a person often doesn't take heed, or glosses over, or downright ends a relationship with that someone who tries to enlighten them to the truth.

Too often, it's a lesson that has to be learned the hard way. I just pray that more people (women mostly) learn before it's too late for them. :-(

PF might have actually still been promising KB whatever she wanted (marriage, house...) of and on. He was baby sitting and she was helping out with cattle. So he might have just been playing cat and mouse with her until he decided to "disappear her." I think some people who are lonely and needy but who dislike intimacy like to have multiple affairs at once to keep distancing themselves, so maybe PF always needed more than one partner but that makes for a messy life, IMO.

 

[SandyQLS]

Would a burner phone be able to take photos?

I think it's highly likely that KKL took photos of the crime scene and maybe even kept something as a "guarantee" of his silence.

I keep thinking about her commenting about the tooth. She claims she threw it away. But I think during the 4 hours she was scrubbing away blood and tissue, she must have been thinking alot about PF and what he had done. When she saw how much of a mess he had made, how much "emotion" this revealed about him, not just a quick, quiet strangulation, but blood spattered everywhere and all throughout the place.

I keep wondering if she has kept photos and maybe even the famous tooth.

Yes. A burner phone is just like any phone you can buy and has all the same capabilities. It is just a phone that is anonymous.

 

[Herat]

And if you're familiar with this personality, we know that KK was very useful tool for PF's "triangulation" to try pushing KB over the edge. There's no way that KB didn't know of this interloper -- maybe not her name, but KB knew of her. MOO

OMG Yes. This hasn't been emphasized enough. This would be very typical to inflict mental torture on KB by just letting her know that someone else was in the picture.

And it wouldnt be really obvious. It would just stuff like repeating KKL's name a little too often, some mentions of visitors or trips. Stuff hard to be exact about but enough to plant a great seed of worry. And it would all be intentional to inflict pain and concern

 

[Seattle1]

I live by her, there isn't like one community dumpster like at an apartment,
Everyone has their own garbage cans they take out

@mustloveco, the 2/19 hearing has got to take a toll on the local community. Hope you're all doing OK.

 

[MsBetsy]

The sink and male DNA not of PF???? Despite eager cleaning by mistress nurse?

Kelsey's family stayed there after she had cleaned. I'm guessing her dad or brother left behind some DNA.