CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #51 *ARREST*

[MassGuy]

Haven't seen DM yet, but the Gazette has an article.

Prosecutors in Kelsey Berreth case want DHS records kept secret
In a March 20 motion made public this week, prosecutor Beth Reed said the District Attorney’s Office obtained the documents as part of its investigation into Patrick Frazee, 32, who is charged with first-degree murder in the disappearance and presumed death of Kelsey Berreth, 29.

They include “extensive interviews documenting statements made by the defendant and witnesses in this case,” Reed said.

[...]

The defense has yet to provide the judge with a response, and it’s unclear when a ruling will be issued. Court records show no evidence that child protective authorities pursued any action against either Frazee or Berreth.

Prosecutors have previously suggested in court that Frazee led a campaign to tar Berreth’s reputation, including claims of child abuse, after she went missing on Nov. 22, Thanksgiving Day.

Frazee had taken steps to seek custody of the girl prior to Berreth’s disappearance, investigators said in court, supplying a possible motive for the crime.

Solid article. I’m glad they included this paragraph:

Court records show no evidence that child protective authorities pursued any action against either Frazee or Berreth.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Wow!

Breaking:

New documents obtained by prosecutors in the Kelsey Berreth murder case could corroborate accusations by her fiancee and his lover that she harmed their young daughter.

It is unknown whether Frazee spoke with social workers about suspected abuse before Berreth disappeared. But the human services reports could support Lee’s statement about the motive – – to kill Berreth to protect their baby.

Kelsey Berreth murder case: Patrick Frazee claims Berreth abused daughter

This article doesn’t tell me much. The reporter seems to write it from the view that it supports child abuse but that may be a view from one of PFs friends. I call BS on this.

Early on, I felt Kelsey may have been under tremendous stress in having a small child. I imagine (don’t know) that pilots are precise and sort of OCD, and yet she had to deal with driving a far distance, motherhood, and being in a bad relationship with a narcissist.

Maybe he called social services to report her, hoping she would give up on him and move away and give him their daughter but she kept hanging in there. And I am sure social services told PF they found nothing amiss.

Just the fact that he planned her MURDER tells me he didn’t love his daughter. He just wanted control without KB around. That’s a strong motive. He could have filed for custody. He likely sought the advice of an attorney who told him he had no chance of custody. He may have even wanted KB to just leave with the baby but Ma Frazee told him he must have that baby!

I suspect the DA requested those records so they could shoot down any theory the defense might present, especially since we know about the hospital incident and how he became enraged there.

There is also the witness whose husband rodeoed with PF and how she saw PF treating KB so badly.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

That, and everything he said would have been documented.

That includes everything that any witnesses said.

They could have countless (provable) lies, all caught on tape.

Boy, he’s really making this easy.

I was rather surprised that they were able to get those documents, as I thought they would not be allowed to be disclosed. So glad they were!

And I loved reading the court document, that the DA said it might be helping the defense or it might be helping the prosecution, but at the same time telegraphing the community and putting the Witnesses on notification that their words, probably under signature, are all on record for everybody to see.

And it will be very interesting to see the Witnesses and their disclosed bias.

I wonder who's on that list of witnesses, it's going to be very interesting, the interviews, I think.

*cough cough*

 

[MassGuy]

This article doesn’t tell me much. The reporter seems to write it from the view that it supports child abuse but that may be a view from one of PFs friends. I call BS on this.

Early on, I felt Kelsey may have been under tremendous stress in having a small child. I imagine (don’t know) that pilots are precise and sort of OCD, and yet she had to deal with driving a far distance, motherhood, and being in a bad relationship with a narcissist.

Maybe he called social services to report her, hoping she would give up on him and move away and give him their daughter but she kept hanging in there. And I am sure social services told PF they found nothing amiss.

Just the fact that he planned her MURDER tells me he didn’t love his daughter. He just wanted control without KB around. That’s a strong motive. He could have filed for custody. He likely sought the advice of an attorney who told him he had no chance of custody. He may have even wanted KB to just leave with the baby but Ma Frazee told him he must have that baby!

I suspect the DA requested those records so they could shoot down any theory the defense might present, especially since we know about the hospital incident and how he became enraged there.

There is also the witness whose husband rodeoed with PF and how she saw PF treating KB so badly.

Yeah, Pommy just posted a much better article, one that provides greater context.

As there was apparently no intervention by DHS after their investigation, it appears that they found no basis for these allegations.

I firmly believe that he first attempted to achieve full custody via child abuse lies, and when that didn’t work, he began plotting Kelsey’s death.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I'm pretty sure the hand burn by curling iron originated with KB telling PF about it. In fact, I'm sure she was sobbing herself when it happened -- just as every new mother with toddler can attest.

PF knows there's no curling iron in his bathroom, and ran with it (also telling KK), like the lowlife he is. MOO

Would it not be interesting if when the results of the interviews are shown, it is stated that Kelsey denied it, and says it perhaps happened when he was with the baby at his farrier job. Do farrier people ever have hot things?

 

[MassGuy]

I was rather surprised that they were able to get those documents, as I thought they would not be allowed to be disclosed. So glad they were!

And I loved reading the court document, that the DA said it might be helping the defense or it might be helping the prosecution, but at the same time telegraphing the community and putting the Witnesses on notification that their words, probably under signature, are all on record for everybody to see.

And it will be very interesting to see the Witnesses and their disclosed bias.

I wonder who's on that list of witnesses, it's going to be very interesting, the interviews, I think.

*cough cough*

Yes, I think this will be very interesting.

The “inculpatory or exculpatory” statement, sounds like standard legal language to me.

I don’t think it’s a reflection of anything in there necessarily being helpful to the defense, just that it meets the legal standard for discovery.

 

[MassGuy]

Would it not be interesting if when the results of the interviews are shown, it is stated that Kelsey denied it, and says it perhaps happened when he was with the baby at his farrier job. Do farrier people ever have hot things?

Well we know that PF likes to play with fire.

So there’s that.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

#killjoy

Patience... patience, it will come out during the trial.

You just have to wait two years.

 

[Ccging]

I’ll bet this coward filed the report anonymously, and lied his *advertiser censored* off during the investigation.

The lack of action on the part of authorities, seems to indicate that this was unfounded.

This failed, and he went with plan B.

Yup!!! I’d almost wonder if it may have been him or Ma F that maybe hurt the baby (possibly by accident), then he got the bright idea to blame it on KB? Maybe KB knew the truth and yet another reason he had to get rid of her??? Interesting.....

 

[PommyMommy]

Yeah, Pommy just posted a much better article, one that provides greater context.

As there was apparently no intervention by DHS after their investigation, it appears that they found no basis for these allegations.

I firmly believe that he first attempted to achieve full custody via child abuse lies, and when that didn’t work, he began plotting Kelsey’s death.

That is exactly what it says to me. MOO

 

[skyedaze]

That is exactly what it says to me. MOO

Yes, same here.
Just chiming in..obviously I have missed some stuff.

 

[MassGuy]

Which brings an interesting point. It is very hard to imagine that anyone in this day and age would not know the workings of technology. Thank you for helping me prove my point. He was not stupid enough to do that. Nobody is. Saying he is stupid and an idiot and reiterating it time and time again does nothing for the case.

I am not a popular poster on this site and I expect the usual hit backs that I typically get. Actually the majority of posters on here disagree with me. However I have a very knowledgeable base in LE and there are some very basic aspects to this case that are refutable.

I only say all this not out of opinion but because I do not have access to all data. But neither do many of the posters saying that they do. This is why I refuse to accept for a fact PF did it. I know they will say it’s irrefutable but is it really when you do not have the evidence? You only have what sw says and I agree it’s a lot but there is still reasonable doubt.

Many of you can easily say case solved but I am still not 100% sold on that and technology is the main reason why. The reason you think 100% it is proven PF is responsible is because of phone pings etc. but we don’t have all of the data. The public has only been given pieces. We have yet to hear where KK was a bullet to recover and still have a body to recover.

When I talk about “his supporters,” I am talking about specific people close to him, not other members here.

If I were the prosecutor, I’d want this case.

With all the evidence here, I can just smell victory.

I’ve followed hundreds of cases over the years, and a few no body ones.

I’m convinced that the evidence is compelling, and that he will be found guilty.

He will be destroyed by his own (proven) lies, and the mountain of evidence he left behind.

KK’s account is supported by evidence, and that helps a great deal.

No body, no problem.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

was it later on the 22d that LE says he took it to Nash?

I also wonder if, at dinner, his family asked where KB was, or did they not even consider her invited to dinner and did not ask about her.

Her mentioning pecans for the sweet potato casserole makes me assume that they were going to take the sweet potato casserole somewhere else. Where did that sweet potato casserole end up! I really want to know the questions and answers that were asked of the immediate family that was there. Her mother and her brother.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

What cannot be stressed enough here is that PF appears to count on the women in his life to take care of him. He hates women, but he's dependent on them.

When he told KK to just ******* talk, this was likely his way of expressing that she was supposed to tell him what to do next.

PF swung the bat. He knew how to do that much.
However, after he got done swinging the bat, he needed KK to tell him what to do, because he didn't have a clue.
He didn't have a clue what to do, because he has no executive functioning skills.

JMO.

I'm trying to remember, when did he say that? I know that when I am really really really upset, I just want somebody else to talk and me to calm down. Without having to talk at all. Was this conversation right after the murder? I can't recall.

 

[Colorado303]

Sure but Milooosh has a point....let's keep it simple....PF has lawyered up so all info coming out is basically what the prosecution wants one to hear. let's think logically she could have set him up...
Think what the defence can say in the absence of a body

If defense is going to try that strategy they better be prepared for jurors to hate PF even more. As horrid as what KK did is, most of us know people (maybe even ourselves) who have done things because of a love interest that they’re ashamed of looking back. Testifying in person she’s likely to come across a bit more human which will make PF’s manipulation seem even more heinous.

 

[JaneEyre]

I disagree.

Child custody is absolutely a strong motive to murder (and false accusations of abuse to obtain custody go hand in hand).

MOO

8 people were murdered in Ohio with child custody as at least part of the motive.

 

[Artis]

Thanks for the link and the short summary, I am not able to open it and read it because I have met my two articles a month limit.

Snip:

New documents obtained by prosecutors in the Kelsey Berreth murder case could corroborate accusations by her fiancee and his lover that she harmed their young daughter.

Deputy Teller County District Attorney Elizabeth Reed obtained records from the county Department of Human Services that include statements murder suspect Patrick Frazee made to child welfare workers, according to recently filed court documents.

It is unknown whether Frazee spoke with social workers about suspected abuse before Berreth disappeared. But the human services reports could support Lee’s statement about the motive – – to kill Berreth to protect their baby.

Kelsey Berreth murder case: Patrick Frazee claims Berreth abused daughter

Edit: The above is all that's noteworthy.

 

[gregjrichards]

Snip:

New documents obtained by prosecutors in the Kelsey Berreth murder case could corroborate accusations by her fiancee and his lover that she harmed their young daughter.

Deputy Teller County District Attorney Elizabeth Reed obtained records from the county Department of Human Services that include statements murder suspect Patrick Frazee made to child welfare workers, according to recently filed court documents.

It is unknown whether Frazee spoke with social workers about suspected abuse before Berreth disappeared. But the human services reports could support Lee’s statement about the motive – – to kill Berreth to protect their baby.

Kelsey Berreth murder case: Patrick Frazee claims Berreth abused daughter

Edit: The above is all that's noteworthy.

This is absolutely disgusting and the lowest of the low.

 

[Colorado303]

read over more Sam Kraemer Twitter from February 19. He says that KK said that PF said "You do not know how hard it was to go to Thanksgiving dinner after killing her." I can never understand PF, so help me: why was it hard for him to go to dinner? Did he want to talk about what he had done? Did he actually feel some remorse or shame? Was he so focused on his next steps that he could not chit chat about the weather or cattle? He willfully did this act, so....

Sam Kraemer on Twitter

I don’t buy it for a minute. I can see him savoring every homemade bite, just like CW slamming down pizza.

 

[MassGuy]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

I have read every word of every document.

I have read every Tweet, and every article written about this case.

Following the evidence is always better than contriving theories that have no basis in evidence or fact.

There is plenty to discuss that doesn’t involve PF’s guilt.

We don’t know many of the specifics, and there are plenty of unanswered questions.

<modsnip: removed reference to removed quote>

There is evidence, we analyze it, and reach a conclusion.

My conclusion is that he did it.

I’m entitled to reach that determination, as anyone else is entitled to reach a different conclusion.