CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #51 *ARREST*

[MemPat]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

... people who commit first degree murder have already messed up royally so exhibit some dysfunctional thought process - unless they're a professional who would be expected to cover their bases. It's easy for us to say that such and such was a stupid move that screwed up a hypothetical "perfect murder" because we aren't murderers, are (hopefully) a lot more clear headed and rational and we have the benefit of Monday morning quarterbacking the crime. For lack of a more accurate phrase, I'd say it's fair to say anyone who committed a crime like this "wasn't in their right mind" and further screw ups, beyond the actual murder, don't seem all that far out to me. We're talking about deranged minds, here, under a lot of stress.

It's always fun to see a detective's facial expression when he/she is interviewed about criminals who think they're smarter than all of LE.

Criminals may get Detail #1, #2 and maybe #3 exactly right but somewhere in the mix, their heightened stress and often downright stupidity get in the way of committing the perfect crime.

The ones who get away with it are usually people who chose victims with whom they have no connection.

PF should have chosen more wisely.

 

[Artis]

Or somebody he hired.

I'd be open to that, too, but he's the one on the neighbor's security cam and her phone followed with him when he left.

The guy is an animal abuser. Lowest life form along with child abusers.

 

[Trocroc9]

Okay then someone he hired. So you DO believe PF is guilty? Because if he hired someone to kill her, he is GUILTY of first degree murder himself.

So now we are getting somewhere. I actually thought of that at first. I was pretty sure it was a hit and he couldn’t speak up for fear the person would go after him. But that doesn’t explain the phone evidence. Another thing, why would KK testify against PF IF he hired someone? I mean your theory of a love triangle ends there. Why would he need to hide anymore?

I truly believe LE has more evidence than we know of and it points right at him.

I never ever once said PF was not guilty in any of my responses. I always said there is more and I always just wanted to look into more of the evidence and situation. <modsnip: off topic>

 

[MsBetsy]

I'm not so sure about that. Her text about the pecans was at 12:41 and he was seen on video at the bank at 12:44. I think she sent it after he picked up the baby. I definitely agree that KB sent the text, though. MOO

Thanks. I could not remember the time, only that is was 12 something.
So unless he managed to take her phone, I think she sent it.

 

[MemPat]

Kelsey was out helping PF with his animals and with his stomach issues, until the early hours of Thanksgiving morning.

I think it’s apparent that she cared for him, and trusted him.

That’s the only way the blindfold candle story could make any sense. It does with

Respectfully, ain't nobody here in danger of being named prom queen, so there's absolutely no reason to be concerned about where anyone falls on the popularity scale.

I'm genuinely baffled by the preoccupation with popularity that's been expressed in a couple of posts.
It's not a popularity contest.
This isn't about currying favor with other posters.
It's not about you.
It's not about me.
In point of fact, it's not about any other person reading this thread.

This forum is about justice for KB.

Period.

JMO.

Besides, we're all invisible out here on the Interwebs.

Justice for KB and her family!

 

[PommyMommy]

@MemPat, I don't remember if it was in one of the search warrants or the affidavit and I don't have time to look, but here are a couple of articles that mention KB's floor being torn up.

Courtroom updates: Preliminary hearing for Patrick Frazee, who is accused of killing Kelsey Berreth
The hardwood floor of Berreth’s home had been torn up in the interim, Slater said.

Patrick Frazee tied sweater around Kelsey Berreth's face, beat her to death with bat, Idaho nurse told police
When they learned that the main attack had happened in the living room, investigators tore up the wood floor and found traces of what they believe to be Berreth’s blood all over the room, Slater said.

 

[MassGuy]

I never ever once said PF was not guilty in any of my responses. I always said there is more and I always just wanted to look into more of the evidence and situation. I was continuously shut down. That’s what bothers me the assurance of others that he did it. I have made it clear as day I just want to rule out every other avenue and I’ve been rudely responded to over many weeks on this thread. Many can attest to this .

Specific evidence makes me believe he did it, from the initial lie he told about when he last saw Kelsey, to him leaving with Kelsey’s phone, and doing all sorts of unbelievable things (fake texts, calls, and Kelsey’s phone being right next to his).

What specific evidence lends credence to an alternate theory? And what is this theory?

 

[Uninformant]

Thanks. I could not remember the time, only that is was 12 something.
So unless he managed to take her phone, I think she sent it.

Or the person who killed her sent it and that’s why PF wanted to check the bank footage to confirm evidence of his alibi.

 

[MemPat]

I agree.

I think this woman is vile, like her counterpart.

I think she is capable of murder, like her counterpart.

But I’m just following the evidence, and it tells me that she wasn’t there, and PF was the one who was.

I want her to pay the full price, but if the evidence ain’t there, it ain’t there.

Show me the evidence, and I’ll believe otherwise.

And we've said it here over and over - LE is forced to make deals with vile people everyday.

Many here don't believe KK spiked the coffee she delivered but I do. (The aunt can confirm that she did, indeed deliver coffee.) I just think KB was too savvy to drink it.

KK is no innocent Rodeo Queen but the evidence, added to the details she filled in points to PF as the murderer.

As has often been said by MG and GK here, "he swung the bat" and we know that because he was there and she was not.

It seems so simple.

 

[Uninformant]

Does anyone remember early in this case there was a bunch of police activity in WP. Reporters swooped in hoping it was a break in the case. WP ended up posting it was an unrelated suicide. Did anyone here sleuth that to confirm it was unrelated?

 

[MemPat]

Okay then someone he hired. So you DO believe PF is guilty? Because if he hired someone to kill her, he is GUILTY of first degree murder himself.

So now we are getting somewhere. I actually thought of that at first. I was pretty sure it was a hit and he couldn’t speak up for fear the person would go after him. But that doesn’t explain the phone evidence. Another thing, why would KK testify against PF IF he hired someone? I mean your theory of a love triangle ends there. Why would he need to hide anymore?

I truly believe LE has more evidence than we know of and it points right at him.

One also does not expect to have to pick up the body and remove it after a hitman finishes his work.

Kinda' defeats the purpose.

 

[MassGuy]

One also does not expect to have to pick up the body and remove it after a hitman finishes his work.

Kinda' defeats the purpose.

Yeah. A hitman serves two key purposes:

Does something that the solicitor is unwilling to do.

Provides the solicitor with an alibi.

As a hitman is typically removed from the victim, it is rare that they dispose of a body.

Their anonymity makes the body irrelevant.

I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a case where a hitman does the killing, and the solicitor does the cleanup.

That’s kind of beside the point though, as PF was the one at the house, and the person who left with Kelsey’s phone.

And (almost certainly) her body.

 

[Uninformant]

One also does not expect to have to pick up the body and remove it after a hitman finishes his work.

Kinda' defeats the purpose.

Indeed. PF’s actions align with unexpected discovery of an unfinished hit job, more than with the detailed strategy of an idiot.

 

[MemPat]

LE didn't pry up floor boards

Did you know you can arrange a private conversation among like-minded sleuthers?

A hitman broke into this and left an unfinished message. There is no evidence that it was me!
That comment about LE prying up floor boards should have said they didn't do that unless they knew something was under them!

 

[MemPat]

@MemPat, I don't remember if it was in one of the search warrants or the affidavit and I don't have time to look, but here are a couple of articles that mention KB's floor being torn up.

Courtroom updates: Preliminary hearing for Patrick Frazee, who is accused of killing Kelsey Berreth
The hardwood floor of Berreth’s home had been torn up in the interim, Slater said.

Patrick Frazee tied sweater around Kelsey Berreth's face, beat her to death with bat, Idaho nurse told police
When they learned that the main attack had happened in the living room, investigators tore up the wood floor and found traces of what they believe to be Berreth’s blood all over the room, Slater said.

Thanks, PommyMommy, I had just left a sentence unfinished. I believe the great amount of blood under those floorboards helped make the case for murder.

 

[GordianKnot]

It’s a cult of 5

I don't understand...can you please put more words to this?

 

[travelbug]

Or the person who killed her sent it and that’s why PF wanted to check the bank footage to confirm evidence of his alibi.

I hear you on this point, I have believed that PF was too much of a coward to finish the job. I think he depended on the women in his life to pick up the slack (or bat). TOS prevents me from elaborating.

 

[PommyMommy]

Does anyone remember early in this case there was a bunch of police activity in WP. Reporters swooped in hoping it was a break in the case. WP ended up posting it was an unrelated suicide. Did anyone here sleuth that to confirm it was unrelated?

It was discussed in thread 19.
Deceased/Not Found - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #19 *ARREST*

 

[Uninformant]

Does anyone remember early in this case there was a bunch of police activity in WP. Reporters swooped in hoping it was a break in the case. WP ended up posting it was an unrelated suicide. Did anyone here sleuth that to confirm it was unrelated?

Found the tweet. Twitter

 

[k-mac]

And we've said it here over and over - LE is forced to make deals with vile people everyday.

Many here don't believe KK spiked the coffee she delivered but I do. (The aunt can confirm that she did, indeed deliver coffee.) I just think KB was too savvy to drink it.

KK is no innocent Rodeo Queen but the evidence, added to the details she filled in points to PF as the murderer.

As has often been said by MG and GK here, "he swung the bat" and we know that because he was there and she was not.

It seems so simple.

I agree she poisoned the coffee imo
who in their right mind would tell LE you did such a thing . suddenly attempted murder charges are coming your way on a side note......