CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #11

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There could also be bedding we haven't heard about yet: left in the grave or in the tank(s).

I’m assuming since the girls’ baby blankets they slept with are missing, that they were with the girls.

I think the master bed’s sheets were the ones referred to in the affidavit. The fitted sheet was at SW’s burial site, the top sheet & pillow cases were in the kitchen trash (I agree the bedding on the floor could’ve been a comforter, blanket, mattress pad, etc).

It says the master bed was stripped & the girls’ beds were unmade.
 
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I can’t imagine what days are like for Shanann, Bella & Celeste.... oh wait, they were not afforded the luxury of more days.

My heart hurts for SW’s parents and brother
It's so awful. I think one of the reasons they bought such a big house was because of how close she was to her family. <modsnip> if you look at her Facebook her dad was frequently there even looks like he had an extended stay as well. They were obviously very close and loved her and the girls very much. People were questioning the need for the house and sometimes it's really just a s simple as having enough space for visitors.
 
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IMO, once the jury hears where the children were found -- on the property of his employer, and that they were thrown into the oil/gas tanks, and her body found close by, I just can't see a doubt as to who put them there. Further, I don't think the jury will hear of Shanann being short-tempered or mean or vindictive enuff to kill her children after hearing that he wanted to separate. She was excited about her job, and she was excited about the new baby. And I don't see her being that upset about a separation. I just don't think it will sell.
I agree. It appears that Shanann was in a good place. She had a career that offered financial stability, supportive friends, her confidence was growing and she had a new baby on the way.
Shanann would have done fine without him.
 
Yes. And we actually have a ton of evidence (or at least knowledge of it). Here is the evidence we know of:

1. Dad claims he saw a blue child on a black and white monitor.

2. The coincidence of two people, unrelated by blood, both reacting to something bad, in a short span of time by losing their minds and committing homicide, defies reason.

3. The coincidence of those same people both committing homicide in the exact same manner -strangulation- is unlikely.

4. A father passionate enough with love for his children, to kill at the sight of them being harmed, would be desperate beyond reason to save them. But:
a. Dad failed to call 911 to try to save his children. Even if he thought they were beyond help, a parent's love is so intense they will desperately and irrationally try for help that will never come.
b. There is no account of him throwing off the mother and working desperately to revive them or resuscitate them. Hell, total strangers have performed CPR on a child's corpse in rigor. (Cooper Harris case). But a passionately loving dad didn't even try in this case?

5. The dad failed to call 911 after killing his wife in a supposed fury of emotion.

6. Dad also failed to run screaming onto the lawn for help or in anguish.
In cases of such Greek tragedy magnitude either 5 or 6 usually comes into play.

7. This entire scene - the "emotional argument", the vicious strangulation of two children, the father witnessing the incomprehensible and reacting with murderous fury and anguish - all of it was totally silent. Except for the poor dog howling that night. How do we know? Because the houses are in close proximity and neighbors mentioned hearing nothing but the dog the next day, IIRC.

8. CW did not scream or wail in anguish so great that it caused him to murder his wife. Not one report of such sounds.

9. CW supposedly lost his mind in grief and anguish. However he regained it in moments in a manner that does not comport with a true mental break. In cases we have seen where people lose it and commit murder, they are typically either wailing on the lawn and to 911 operators or they are in an apparent psychotic state- not lying about what happened, not covering it up, not able to function normally at all. See thumbnail of Julie Schenecker as an example of what this looks like. Police interview Julie Schenecker after kids found dead

10. CW, after such an insanely, horrific Greek tragedy of a scene, calmly loaded up the bodies of his wife and children in order to conceal their deaths and dispose of them. We know this because a neighbor stated she witnessed him leaving. (No reports of wailing and she said, IIRC, the truck drove normally. So no veering, spinning of tires or other signs of lack of composure). And it's apparently on video.

11. CW, a man passionately in love enough with his kids to erupt in murderous rage when they're harmed, did not attempt to give them a burial that comports psychologically with the love and bond parents have with their kids. Death Rituals Reported by White, Black, and Hispanic Parents Following the ICU Death of an Infant or Child
A Global History of Child Death

12. Instead he dumps them in two separate vats of oil. Not together. No way to commemorate their lives. Concealed. Discarded. In a manner that veers from any known traditional burial rite of any kind.

13. CW went to work and monitored the ring video of his house. After the horrific Greek tragedy he just endured. He went to work. And monitored the video of his front door.

14. CW left a few voice messages and sent some texts to the wife he knew was dead, thus calmly concealing what happened.

15. CW calmly called SW's friend after she came to the door and he saw her on the ring video. He asked what was going on. We know this because he stated as much and this is corroborated by the friend.

16. CW rushed home - blowing stop signs and with beating heart, according to him- when CW came to the house and expressed alarm. The first time we have heard of a hint of emotion on his part since the horrific murders of his kids supposedly by his wife and his heat of passion killing of her, occurs when he knew the authorities are about to get involved.

17. CW cooly lied to the friend about where SW was supposed to be that day and why she wasn't at home. After he lost his mind the night before. He is calm and able to work to conceal those events.

18. There is not one hint of brief reactive psychosis or drug induced psychosis in CW's demeanor and behavior since 5:15 am the morning of the deaths, nor the next day as he gives calm and detailed interviews to the media. His pupils are normal. He is not slurring speech. He does not have a vacant stare. He exhibits no delusions or paranoia. He is not showing emotional lability. (I'm no expert in psychology but have seen a few psychotic people due to psychotic breaks or drugs. You don't snap out of that fast. It's easy to research).

19. CW shows no anguish, depression, grief, concern, sadness or despair during his stoic media interviews, despite having supposedly been so deranged by his passionate love for his kids that he killed their attacker. His eyes are dry. Not red. No signs of puffiness from weeping. His face is smooth and calm. He looks well rested. No bags under his eyes. He smiles. He grins. He smirks. All with the knowledge that his insane wife savagely murdered his precious babies causing him to lose his mind with anguish. And with the knowledge that the people he loved so fiercely it caused him to kill, are at that moment rotting in separate vats of oil.

20. CW calmly and continuously lies to the media about the whereabouts of his dead wife and dead children.

21. CW systematically works with LE to track down his wife and kids. Brainstorming. Supplying numbers and addresses. Calling people. All the while knowing they are dead and decomposing.

22. CW is questioned and lies about having an affair. A motive in many murders of wives.

23. SW was pregnant. (A circumstance present in vast numbers of murders of spouses or parents by men).

24. Some people and report that CW seemed distant with his wife and kids in the weeks leading up to this monstrous event.

25. CW was not hospitalized for any reason after this tragedy.

From the CO model jury instructions:

D:01 DIRECT AND CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE—NO DISTINCTION

A fact may be proven by either direct or circumstantial evidence. Under the law, both are acceptable ways to prove something. Neither is necessarily more reliable than the other.


E:03 PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE, BURDEN OF PROOF, AND REASONABLE DOUBT

Reasonable doubt means a doubt based upon reason and common sense which arises from a fair and rational consideration of all of the evidence, or the lack of evidence, in the case. It is a doubt which is not a vague, speculative or imaginary doubt, but such a doubt as would cause reasonable people to hesitate to act in matters of importance to themselves.

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/Supreme_Court/Committees/Criminal_Jury_Instructions/2017/COLJI-Crim 2017 - Final.pdf
i wish the admin would make this a sticky
 
BBM. Do people on remand go into the prison population?

I mean that in common parlance we don't apply strict meanings to prisons & jails ( or gaols) so we'll usually add Person X is on remand if before the hearing.

So for instance, the case that you and I looked at last - Michael Stirling & Sam Eastwood - couple of weeks ago?
Stirling is now on in custody at HMPrison Dovegate until his hearing.

This is because all the places like Dovegate , category B Prison , are for a mix of inmates,( as most HMP are)
HMP Dovegate = including trial, remand, awaiting sentence and convicted men serving over four years to life.

Edit - we're both from the UK and this post is about the UK
 
I don't think it shows he hated them. Just that he doesn't have normal human emotion associated with them because his disposal is in no way associated with any burial rites or the psychological need of a parent to commemorate their children or lay them to rest with respect and love.

You pose an intriguing possibility but I'm not really feeling it. Even though that was his job. I mean what if his job was sewer maintenance or garbage man. Or waste treatment. If he worked one of those jobs and disposed of his precious children's bodies in a dump or sewer or sewage waste containment pond or whatever, would it be less psychologically abhorrent because he worked there? IMO, not really.

Rites and attitudes surrounding the death of children are very psychological and meaningful.

I think he simply did what he felt was expedient and could help him hide what he did. He didn't care about them so he didn't have any nostalgia surrounding their disposal.

Are there any examples that we know of when somebody was threatening the life of his children, or their children were in a dangerous situation and he stood up for the children against that threat?

Or is there any example that we know of when somebody was threatening the life of his children, or his children were in a dangerous situation and he did not stand up for the children against that threat and only his wife did?
 
I mean that in common parlance we don't apply strict meanings to prisons & jails ( or gaols) so we'll usually add Person X is on remand if before the hearing.

So for instance, the case that you and I looked at last - Michael Stirling & Sam Eastwood - couple of weeks ago?
Stirling is now on in custody at HMPrison Dovegate until his hearing.

This is because all the places like Dovegate , category B Prison , are for a mix of inmates,( as most HMP are)
Dovegate = including trial, remand, awaiting sentence and convicted men serving over four years to life.
I am Australian our prisons are the same as yours.
 
I don't, jail is way worse than prison. In prison you might get a tv go to the yard workout play games enroll in classes have a job. Jail is usually locked in a cell you get out at specific times to group watch a tv if they have a tv, socialize, eat etc. you get commissary in both but prison has a much wider selection. He will be held in jail until trial and sentencing also the longer he has to sit and think maybe it will make him plead guilty I highly doubt it but ask any criminal they would rather do their time in prison than sit in wait in jail.

Youd be surprised at what they get/get away with in jail. My husband is a deputy and depending on crime or what housing unit youre in these criminals get their own ipads. Completely ridiculous. If youre a non violent offender you can get "jobs" in the jail, can actually be out of your cell for long periods of time. Most actually prefer to stay in county jail and not be transferred to a state prison.
 
This is why I know he is guilty.

To those that think C.W. is telling truth about SW and strangling the kids, I’m curious what you think his rationale is for dumping his children’s bodies like this?
I don’t buy the whole “he wanted to spare her family pain” BS. Nobody would be so “altruistic” that to spare their in laws pain they would be willing to go so far as to dump their children’s bodies in oil tank. So what was the logic?
There isn’t any. Just cruelty.
 
When I was in high school, I wanted to live in Montana and have a horse ranch. I had never been to Montana and didn't know how horse ranches make any income, but that was my dream. It didn't happen and I didn't kill my family over it.

Then there was the aspiration to be a stewardess for Delta. I had never been on an airplane, I just liked the uniforms. That didn't happen either. Family still here.

He wanted to work on NASCAR cars. So does every engine technician out there. There are what 200-300 of those jobs? It wasn't likely to happen. But, he had a great job, working for a great company and making a very nice salary for a young 30 something.

Two salaries like that and a family of 5 can live very well.

That's interesting . I didn't know that about CW. Do you know where it's from?
 
I’m assuming since the girls’ baby blankets they slept with are missing, that they were with the girls.

I think the master bed’s sheets were the ones referred to in the affidavit. The fitted sheet was at SW’s burial site, the top sheet & pillow cases were in the kitchen trash (I agree the bedding on the floor could’ve been a comforter, blanket, mattress pad, etc).

It says the master bed was stripped & the girls’ beds were unmade.
This is just an assumption but the sheet was likely used to drag the SW's body from the house to the truck. His claim that SW strangled the children is laughably absurd as is his claim she got home at 2 AM but was still up at 4 AM when they had their "emotional" conversation. No jury will have any difficulty convicting this guy. JMO
 
In one of the court appearances, maybe the first one, the judge said that CW couldn't have visitors other than his lawyer? A similar restriction to that, anyway. Though I'm not sure how long that restriction was supposed to be in place.

But CW was free from the Monday to the Thursday? Would he have contacted his mistress in those four days? I would be interested to know what, if anything, he said to her in that time.

IMO, yes..through the media because he knew he could not call.

Lupus bracelet off, ring off, we were separating, I was home alone first night with all lights on, I want froends aroud tomorrow, I am going to sell the house, etc. Etc.

I agree with many others that she has gotten a lawyer and is going though a lawyer to completely and fully cooperate and attempting this way to hinder her name in media.
 
Has anyone found any reason to believe CW was using any kind of steroid?

There have been several murders of spouses/loved ones, in part, due to steroid use; i.e. Roid Rage. Wondering if that may be part of the issue here.
I have wondered about that, too. Just a thought. It's possible. The standard blood tox tests do not test for steroids.
 
And if it's the response of an insane person then the signs of the insanity are apparent and do not include calmly lying and concealing what happened.

Yeah there have been people who become psychotic and kill. None of them look and act like CE did after the crime.

Exactly. An insane person would not cover him/her crime because they would not realize it was wrong
 
I’m assuming since the girls’ baby blankets they slept with are missing, that they were with the girls.

I think the master bed’s sheets were the ones referred to in the affidavit. The fitted sheet was at SW’s burial site, the top sheet & pillow cases were in the kitchen trash (I agree the bedding on the floor could’ve been a comforter, blanket, mattress pad, etc).

It says the master bed was stripped & the girls’ beds were unmade.
whuuuuuutttt? I missed that part...the top sheet and pillow cases were in the trash????
 
I am Australian our prisons are the same as yours.

Oh. When you replied to me previously you said wtte: "I'm not from the US and the equivalent tabloid you're looking for is The Daily Mail"
So I just guessed you were uk

Anyway, we have pple like CW go to prisons before hearings. They don't go to jails but UK pple use the words interchangeably as the inmates are often mixed in together.

Anyway it's good to know some more detail about the US from the OP - ie. jails can be worse according to the OP
 
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