Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #44

[PommyMommy]

Actually, from what I’ve been told I believe the staircase leads to the loft area (where the phone was found) w/master bedroom to the left and both girls bedrooms to the right.

Someone posted the floorplan, then they flipped it to match the style of house the Watts had. I was left with the idea that the stairway passed right by the girls' room, I'll look it up, you might be right, but I have to go to a funeral shortly and I just don't have the steam to look it up.

Colorado, does this look right to you, then?

Lenox | Quebec Highlands | Thornton, Colorado | D.R. Horton

 

[Colorado303]

Yes it does. But if I’m reading it right this floorplan doesn’t look like you’d have to go past the girl’s rooms to get to the master. At the top of the stairs you’d go straight ahead to get to the master while the girl’s bedrooms would be behind you.

 

[Thepoet]

Master bedroom does have it’s own bath

Thank you. I thought so.

 

[riolove77]

Unless he was downstairs "getting a drink of water" for more than 10 mins, it's not even physically possible that she strangled both girls before he made it back up there. And by his own words, he went down there "for a moment", so it's BS, in my opinion.

 

[Thepoet]

I have a couple of questions, some regarding the timeline and some in general. Thanks.

1. According to SW's conversations in NC (with hair stylist) and with NUA ("I'm going to need you more than ever!) , SW either knew a separation was imminent or she was planning a separation. Why would she go to bed when she got home, instead of dealing with the problem?

2. SW was tired, not feeling well, and had just endured a three hour flight delay, if she went to bed and to sleep when she got home, why wake up for an "emotional conversation" two hours later? That would risk waking the girls, and just before CW had to go to work. If they didn't talk when she arrived home, why at 4;00 A.M.?

3. What happened between the time that SW arrived home from NC and her trip to Arizona that caused her to think she would need NUA more than ever? Did she receive confirmation from someone that CW was unfaithful?

4. If either CW or SW or both went into a rage why is there no evidence of it? Especially, if as CW said, they were both in a rage?

rage
/rāj/
noun
noun: rage; plural noun: rages

1. 1.
   violent, uncontrollable anger.

Was there evidence of rage on SW's body? There appears to be none on CW and there also appears to be no blood loss, no broken things like lamps, etc. in the house.

5. If SW was tired (probably exhausted), not feeling well, disconcerted, and then either awoke or was woken up, from a short period of sleep, for a conversation, would rage against her children be a logical response? Don't women who kill their children to punish their husband wait until the husband isn't home?

6. In regards to SW's phone, why would CW hide it? If CW had it and didn't want SW to use it to call for help, why not put it in his pocket? If he was wearing PJs, why not just put it in a drawer or under his pillow? Why carry it to the sofa and hide it under cushions? If she was awake she might see him and ask what he's doing. If she was asleep why go to that trouble? Isn't the most logical explanation for the phone being in the sofa; that it fell there, unseen, during an attack?

Finally, I wonder if the neighbors outside camera recorded lights going on and off in the Watts house from the time SW arrived home until CW pulled the truck into the garage?

 

[PommyMommy]

I have a couple of questions, some regarding the timeline and some in general. Thanks.

1. According to SW's conversations in NC (with hair stylist) and with NUA ("I'm going to need you more than ever!) , SW either knew a separation was imminent or she was planning a separation. Why would she go to bed when she got home, instead of dealing with the problem?

2. SW was tired, not feeling well, and had just endured a three hour flight delay, if she went to bed and to sleep when she got home, why wake up for an "emotional conversation" two hours later? That would risk waking the girls, and just before CW had to go to work. If they didn't talk when she arrived home, why at 4;00 A.M.?

3. What happened between the time that SW arrived home from NC and her trip to Arizona that caused her to think she would need NUA more than ever? Did she receive confirmation from someone that CW was unfaithful?

4. If either CW or SW or both went into a rage why is there no evidence of it? Especially, if as CW said, they were both in a rage?

rage
/rāj/
noun
noun: rage; plural noun: rages

1. 1.
   violent, uncontrollable anger.

Was there evidence of rage on SW's body? There appears to be none on CW and there also appears to be no blood loss, no broken things like lamps, etc. in the house.

5. If SW was tired (probably exhausted), not feeling well, disconcerted, and then either awoke or was woken up, from a short period of sleep, for a conversation, would rage against her children be a logical response? Don't women who kill their children to punish their husband wait until the husband isn't home?

6. In regards to SW's phone, why would CW hide it? If CW had it and didn't want SW to use it to call for help, why not put it in his pocket? If he was wearing PJs, why not just put it in a drawer or under his pillow? Why carry it to the sofa and hide it under cushions? If she was awake she might see him and ask what he's doing. If she was asleep why go to that trouble? Isn't the most logical explanation for the phone being in the sofa; that it fell there, unseen, during an attack?

Finally, I wonder if the neighbors outside camera recorded lights going on and off in the Watts house from the time SW arrived home until CW pulled the truck into the garage?

All MOO:
1) She went to bed because she was tired, not feeling well, it was 2 am and she had a doctor's appointment that morning. It wasn't necessary (for her) to have a discussion about separation at that time. Or, CW killed her shortly after she arrived home and she never went to bed.

2) It doesn't make sense because he is lying.

3) It is my understanding that the text from NUA to SW was sent from NC, after SW noticed that he wasn't acting his usual self (hugging, kissing, not as attentive to the girls). IMO, she didn't receive any confirmation that CW was having an affair.

4) We don't know if there was a "rage" on anyone's part or if there was some evidence of it that was covered up. If CW killed them all in their beds, he would have easily overpowered all three and there wouldn't be much evidence of rage. If it was an ambush soon after she arrived home, he probably had time to hide any evidence of his rage.

5) Rage against her children isn't a logical response whether SW was tired or not.

6) I don't think the phone could fall between the cushions. I think it was stuffed between the cushions temporarily and would have been dealt with, along with other things, later that day when he returned home from work. His primary objective after the murders was to dispose of the bodies, secure the house, and get to work so as not to cast any suspicion onto himself.

Again, all MOO.

 

[Scrapper18]

Maybe someone already questioned this - I haven’t read every thread. Looking at the floor plan of the house, Bella and CeCe had different bedrooms. If CW account is accurate...

1. How could he see one child “blue” and SW strangling the other? Wouldn’t they be in separate rooms?

2. If they were in the same room, why would SW bring the one to the other’s room?

3. Is there a video monitor that has a split screen to view both rooms? If so, why would you need it for a 4 year old? Especially since the master bedroom wasn’t that far. Honestly, we were done with a monitor when our kids were 3.

 

[Kankan]

Maybe someone already questioned this - I haven’t read every thread. Looking at the floor plan of the house, Bella and CeCe had different bedrooms. If CW account is accurate...

1. How could he see one child “blue” and SW strangling the other? Wouldn’t they be in separate rooms?

2. If they were in the same room, why would SW bring the one to the other’s room?

3. Is there a video monitor that has a split screen to view both rooms? If so, why would you need it for a 4 year old? Especially since the master bedroom wasn’t that far. Honestly, we were done with a monitor when our kids were 3.

There are lots of monitors with split screens and also rotating screens so you can see more than one room at a time. I do not think 4 years old is too old to have a monitor. It’s a nice safe guard to have in place. Especially if they already had the multicamera system, why not use it.

 

[Thepoet]

All MOO:
1) She went to bed because she was tired, not feeling well, it was 2 am and she had a doctor's appointment that morning. It wasn't necessary (for her) to have a discussion about separation at that time. Or, CW killed her shortly after she arrived home and she never went to bed.

2) It doesn't make sense because he is lying.

3) It is my understanding that the text from NUA to SW was sent from NC, after SW noticed that he wasn't acting his usual self (hugging, kissing, not as attentive to the girls). IMO, she didn't receive any confirmation that CW was having an affair.

4) We don't know if there was a "rage" on anyone's part or if there was some evidence of it that was covered up. If CW killed them all in their beds, he would have easily overpowered all three and there wouldn't be much evidence of rage. If it was an ambush soon after she arrived home, he probably had time to hide any evidence of his rage.

5) Rage against her children isn't a logical response whether SW was tired or not.

6) I don't think the phone could fall between the cushions. I think it was stuffed between the cushions temporarily and would have been dealt with, along with other things, later that day when he returned home from work. His primary objective after the murders was to dispose of the bodies, secure the house, and get to work so as not to cast any suspicion onto himself.

Again, all MOO.

Excellent! Kudos and thanks. That is pretty much what I believe, as well. If the phone was stuffed between the cushions, it seems to me that it was more likely SW that did so. Thanks again.

 

[ZsaZsa]

I have a couple of questions, some regarding the timeline and some in general. Thanks.

1. According to SW's conversations in NC (with hair stylist) and with NUA ("I'm going to need you more than ever!) , SW either knew a separation was imminent or she was planning a separation. Why would she go to bed when she got home, instead of dealing with the problem?

2. SW was tired, not feeling well, and had just endured a three hour flight delay, if she went to bed and to sleep when she got home, why wake up for an "emotional conversation" two hours later? That would risk waking the girls, and just before CW had to go to work. If they didn't talk when she arrived home, why at 4;00 A.M.?

3. What happened between the time that SW arrived home from NC and her trip to Arizona that caused her to think she would need NUA more than ever? Did she receive confirmation from someone that CW was unfaithful?

4. If either CW or SW or both went into a rage why is there no evidence of it? Especially, if as CW said, they were both in a rage?

rage
/rāj/
noun
noun: rage; plural noun: rages

1. 1.
   violent, uncontrollable anger.

Was there evidence of rage on SW's body? There appears to be none on CW and there also appears to be no blood loss, no broken things like lamps, etc. in the house.

5. If SW was tired (probably exhausted), not feeling well, disconcerted, and then either awoke or was woken up, from a short period of sleep, for a conversation, would rage against her children be a logical response? Don't women who kill their children to punish their husband wait until the husband isn't home?

6. In regards to SW's phone, why would CW hide it? If CW had it and didn't want SW to use it to call for help, why not put it in his pocket? If he was wearing PJs, why not just put it in a drawer or under his pillow? Why carry it to the sofa and hide it under cushions? If she was awake she might see him and ask what he's doing. If she was asleep why go to that trouble? Isn't the most logical explanation for the phone being in the sofa; that it fell there, unseen, during an attack?

Finally, I wonder if the neighbors outside camera recorded lights going on and off in the Watts house from the time SW arrived home until CW pulled the truck into the garage?

I agree about the phone. IIRC they didn't find it hidden under the sofa cushions, they stated they found it "lodged between" them......which sounds much more like it was thrown there rather than placed there.

 

[PommyMommy]

Maybe someone already questioned this - I haven’t read every thread. Looking at the floor plan of the house, Bella and CeCe had different bedrooms. If CW account is accurate...

1. How could he see one child “blue” and SW strangling the other? Wouldn’t they be in separate rooms?

2. If they were in the same room, why would SW bring the one to the other’s room?

3. Is there a video monitor that has a split screen to view both rooms? If so, why would you need it for a 4 year old? Especially since the master bedroom wasn’t that far. Honestly, we were done with a monitor when our kids were 3.

1. He couldn't and didn't see Bella blue, IMO. They had separate bedrooms, but we don't know for a fact where he murdered them.

2. We don't know if they were in the same room. IMO, they were each in their own beds, in their own rooms.

3. See attached links. Bella and CeCe both had medical issues that would necessitate the use of a monitor. Additionally, it was a large, 2-story house. If SW or CW were downstairs in the kitchen or one of the living room areas, a monitor would be very helpful.

Video from SW's Facebook:
Shanann Watts

Clip from Ashleigh Banfield regarding the baby monitor.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=280073522825085

 

[ZsaZsa]

Maybe someone already questioned this - I haven’t read every thread. Looking at the floor plan of the house, Bella and CeCe had different bedrooms. If CW account is accurate...

1. How could he see one child “blue” and SW strangling the other? Wouldn’t they be in separate rooms?

2. If they were in the same room, why would SW bring the one to the other’s room?

3. Is there a video monitor that has a split screen to view both rooms? If so, why would you need it for a 4 year old? Especially since the master bedroom wasn’t that far. Honestly, we were done with a monitor when our kids were 3.

The monitor they have rotates between rooms apparently.

 

[ZsaZsa]

An interesting definition and example of usage of ' lodged'.
lodge (verb) American English definition and synonyms | Macmillan Dictionary

 

[Tippy Lynn]

In the previous thread, some members alluded to feeling intimidated to put forward their theories as they differed from most peoples opinion. May I, in the interests of a healthy, respectful discussion propose what, I think IMO that hypothetical senario entails:
CW makes the statement, as per affidavit, that he killed SW after she killed B&CCW.
I'm interested in the possible timeline, please highlight where my assumptions are incorrect.

630pm B&CCW put to bed (based on SM)
630-9pm (TBC) CW makes a BBQ on the patio, eats etc (as per witness)
10pm CW relaxing in the house expecting SW to return, makes a tweet at 10pm (see CW Twitter feed)
11pm SW ETA, CW possibly told sometime previous to this that flight was delayed by up to 3 hours (speculation)
11pm-12pm (estimate) CW goes to bed knowing SW will be late (speculation)
148am SW returns home, leaves her shoes, case & purse downstairs and heads upstairs (as per NUA witness report & LE observations)
150am SW joins CW in bed. CW stated in porch interview she "barely got into bed" and made no inference she slept on the loft sofa. (Porch interview)
4am "Emotional conversation" ensues, as per CW affidavit, this was previously declared to be 5am in the porch interviews IIRC
4am-430am (approx) CW informs SW about the affair and his wish to seperate, possibly told her of other extra-marital affairs as well (All speculation)
430am (approx) CW doesn't wish to pursue the discussion, goes downstairs for a drink. (as per affidavit) CW leaves SW angry with rage/on medications/pregnant/emotional etc upstairs alone with the girls. (speculation)
431am (approx) CW has a drink, returned to his bedroom to speak with Shanann again. While in the bedroom, via baby monitor located on Shanann's night stand, he observed Bella 'sprawled' out on her bed and blue and Shanann actively strangling Celeste.
https://mediaassets.thedenverchanne...06.1715148282.1541154469-987309381.1540869920. He waits for a period (I speculate it's a few seconds) for the monitor display to switch to CCWs room and sees SW strangling CCW (Affidavit)
431am (approx) CW rushes to CCW's room, upon seeing SW strangling CCW, proceeds to strangle SW (as per affidavit). This would have certainly happened without much noise (not reported by neighbours) or much of a struggle (not any significant marks on CW on Tuesday, IMO)
440am (approx) CW in shock having killed SW & NLW, tries to recucitate CCW. After unsuccessfully doing so, CW checks on BW, confirms she is deceased. (Speculation)
445am (approx) CW considers calling 911 but thinks if he gets LE involved that he will get blamed for all 3(4) deaths so decides to dispose of the bodies and pretend that SW disappeared with the girls, incase anybody asks where they are. (Speculation)
445-515am CW begins to dispose of evidence, removing bed clothes, carrying/dragging corpses downstairs. Placing bedsheets & pillowcases in kitchen trash, removing main bed sheets etc
515am CW loads bodies in rear of truck and drives to work at 530am to dispose of bodies. (Affidavit and witness statements/CCTV)
Later that morning, CW makes a call to SW to ask how she is etc (Porch interview) without response.

I think we all agree on the rest............. Is that about right?

I'm open to ALL hypothesis/conjectures/opinions until we get further statements/evidence but can assure @TipplyLyn and any others who are apprehensive about defending CWs story that I am only interested in discussing the pros and cons of any hypothesis, but for that we need concrete suggestions. All I have seen so far is speculation about SWs personality based on SM videos. I am interested in exactly HOW members think events unfolded in this scenario so that I can come to MY OWN conclusions about how reasonable and plausible those ideas are. Please feel free to correct my timeline.

ETA: Thank you @PrimeSuspect, edited 431am to be accurate

Here's the deal. I agree with the majority and I think it's highly likely CW is guilty on all charges. However, with what we know so far I think there's reasonable doubt. IMO that's not exactly defending CW or his story.
jmo

 

[Deleted member 182072]

From the previous thread:
@katydid23

You do realize that these videos you saw were ALL made for a specific purpose, right? These videos that you described were all 'work' videos made by SW, in order to ADVERTISE her Thrive lifestyle.

These videos were not 'real life.' You did not get a snippet of their reality. The rest of her day and night did not look exactly like her few minutes of live streaming.

She was DIRECTING those work commercials. When directing a commercial, one orders others around. They set the stage and direct the movements and activities. That's why all you see is her 'directing' everyone.

The rest of the day/night would be her doing the things that you described above----playing with her girls, talking with her husband and fixing their meals, driving them to play dates, etc etc. She didn't film everything, just what she needed for her work content.

This really should go without saying but thanks for saying it anyway to those critiquing them.
Her videos are also meaningless to the case, IMO.

 

[katydid23]

True, and that is probably exactly why he changed the time from 5:00 to 4:00 when he told the officer what time he woke her up to have the emotional conversation, he quickly realized that would not be enough time.

She finally gets to bed ---after a long delayed return flight, after a busy work trip, where she had been feeling ill , being in a high risk pregnancy----and she finally gets into bed at 2 am.

And we are told that 2 hours later, at 4 am, she is awake and engaging in an 'emotional conversation' about her marriage? I find that hard to believe.

 

[Applecross]

She finally gets to bed ---after a long delayed return flight, after a busy work trip, where she had been feeling ill , being in a high risk pregnancy----and she finally gets into bed at 2 am.

And we are told that 2 hours later, at 4 am, she is awake and engaging in an 'emotional conversation' about her marriage? I find that hard to believe.

She might have woken up to go to the bathroom. She might have felt too unwell to sleep. CW might have woken her up. She might have been so upset by news of the AP that she was unable to sleep. Plenty of reasons for her to be awake IMO.

 

[katydid23]

She might have woken up to go to the bathroom. She might have felt too unwell to sleep. CW might have woken her up. She might have been so upset by news of the AP that she was unable to sleep. Plenty of reasons for her to be awake IMO.

Plenty of reasons for her to be awake. But hard to believe she wanted to hash out their marriage issues at 4 am, after she had only 2 hours of sleep. She was sick and pregnant. She was probably exhausted.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Mark, this is awesome! What a great tool. I imagine it accurately captures the timeline for scenarios matching CE’s confession and hope people that want to discuss those scenarios weigh in w/any changes/additions to it as well as their thoughts supporting those scenarios.

For this timeline to be true an awful lot had to happen between 4:00 am and 5:15 am. I imagine would be humanly possible, but IMO highly unlikely. Looking forward to hearing from those that disagree.

Thamks again!

ITA! Awesome post. Should be pinned, IMO.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Plenty of reasons for her to be awake. But hard to believe she wanted to hash out their marriage issues at 4 am, after she had only 2 hours of sleep. She was sick and pregnant. She was probably exhausted.

I don't think it's hard to believe she would be up hashing it out. Ending a marriage is a life changing event. I don't think many people would be able to push it aside and sleep.
jmo