Court: Teaching Credential Required To Home School

[Karole28]

That's awesome - what grade is she in and is she in public school? I also learned a lot about Religions and religion in school, but I went to a private, church-affiliated school. It seems to me that public schools shy away from the subject, but maybe I am wrong.

Hey SCM - she's in 7th, and like I said upthread, she's in an exceptionally good public school. If this school weren't an option, she be homeschooled, however I had to swing it.

Trust me, most public schools in our area(s) are beyond bad.

 

[Karole28]

As far as religion, I shove nothing down anyone's throat. I just find it amusing how some call it that when the mere mention of something scriptural is announced in the public arena.

Yeah, I don't want to get us off topic, but Christians get a bad rap with this. It's ok to pray to anyone (or anything) in public, but bring out a King James and people start protesting.

Just wanted to give you a virtual pat. :blowkiss:

 

[Truly]

I agree, it is wonderful to give children an overview of all the world's religions. The schools also allow children to privately adhere to their own various religious beliefs. Public schools must draw the line when it comes to endorsing one faith over another. That is a simple and fair way to respect the diverse beliefs of all.

 

[angelmom]

If I read one more story of a child that was victimized by their parent(s) and no one knew about it because the child was home schooled and kept away from prying eyes that would ask questions about abuse or neglect, as would be required in the school system with the Police and CPS involved

I would literally if in power ensure that all kids who are home schooled and checked on a regular basis not only for abuse, but for the parents teaching the child according to acceptable standards.

That does not mean putting PBS on in the am, so Mommy can talk on the phone to her friends and calling that education. Or mommy can take a nap or mommy going shopping or to the pool. Some parents home school because they feel it is the best choice for their child, others home school to cover up abuse, neglect, or other reasons.

If you do any job, you should have a back ground to qualify to do that job. Or education to do that job. A parent who graduated, or not, from high school 10-20 years ago has no idea that grade 7-8 math involves polyhedrons.

If you have to look up what polyhedrons are, then you might question the teaching credentials of the the teacher who is a parent.

The following is a sample from a grade 7-8 math test. See if you understand the question and can teach it and provide the correct answer and why. You will be teaching your child this math.

BACHET 17th Century France

​

What is the least number of weights that can be used on a scale
pan to weight against any integral number of pounds from 1 to 40
inclusive, if the weights can be placed in either of the scale pans?

What about history and science............

Parents may think they are qualified, but in essence they are not. Unless of course they graduated University with a degree and have their teaching credentials. You can teach a young child to read, but try grade 12 math or science. That would be the math and science of 2008, not when the parent graduated high school 10-20 years ago.

Children have to compete in a knowledge based global environment against other children who have had a formal education and can compete and excel. Depending on the parent, that may occur or not.

You just made the opposing argument for them. I do have a teaching degree and your post makes my head hurt.

I would have to review the information to even understand all of the questions.

Of course, on certain subject matter that I am familiar with and love, I might be able to stump you as well. Or maybe not. Maybe you are just a lot smarter than me.

 

[KOOL LOOK]

Yeah, I don't want to get us off topic, but Christians get a bad rap with this. It's ok to pray to anyone (or anything) in public, but bring out a King James and people start protesting.

Just wanted to give you a virtual pat. :blowkiss:

Thank you beautiful, for you are. Not because you agree with me, but because of the kindness in the gesture towards me that makes you beautiful. So are the others too, even the opposing ones.

A great example, again right here in our forum, the thread titled, school vice president boy gets suspended, denied an honors dinner and stripped of his title as "Class Vice President" for buying a bag of skittles. Give me a break. There is no balance and correct measures in the schools.

As that is what the Lord told me about three years ago concerning the school system. we need both female and males, evenly balanced to have a better school system in teaching our kids. It's too one sided in the sexes and thus why we are having more trouble than normal with out of control sex scandals in the schools, un-balanced disciplinary actions etc.

The Lord told me it's because the inner workings of the schools themselves are off balance and you can't make something balanced that the foundations are off kilter. Sort of like our Earth, how it's balanced in mid air rotating with nothing adhering and holding it into place in the Universe but the Word of God. There's got to be a balance, just weight in everything, including the leadership and authority in the school systems. A good balance and mixture of male, female old and young in authority and that's not happening any longer as it did of old. So the Lord showed me a fundamental im-balance. For if you'll pay attention and look, most all of our schools now adays are comprised of very young, single in the dating scene females with no one to be as their role model holding them into account.

Got to have a human balance to the element of society, or it's off kilter.

Lub ya Karole, keep up the good job with your children, cases likes yours is what keeps me happy and full of promise and hope, as the other mothers here strive for that balance of good moral values and academics.

How does this post sound as far as intellect? I believe wholly the Lord annoints, ordains those parents who choose to parent and teach their children, which no force, book, teaching credentials can quicken like he can. A homeschooling parents is authorized, sanctified annointed in that position thus giving them all the credentials necessary, for their teaching the souls of God's elect.

How about that for religion? Hmmmmmmmm that's how my beliefs play into my thinking, ain't no certified book educated individual got more drippings of annointing than the parents of a child, that comes from the very foundations of creation and thus this ruling will be overturnd and dis-obeyed. You can't change what God has ordained to be in this world, but oh many many try which is the root evil of those trying to change it, it's not really credentials, it's the underlying dark sided root of the axis of evil trying to hinder the teachings of goodness.

 

[golfmom]

How is it right that you don't have to be a licensed teacher to teach a CLASSROOM of children in a private school in California, but you can't teach a child one-on-one in your home?

Makes no sense . . . .

 

[southcitymom]

How is it right that you don't have to be a licensed teacher to teach a CLASSROOM of children in a private school in California, but you can't teach a child one-on-one in your home?

Makes no sense . . . .

Amen, sister!

Licensing and credentialing of homeschool parents won't solve any problems and doesn't make any sense. In my own life, there are just too many examples of "non-educated" people creating productive, successful lives (my Mom's Dad took his 6th grade education and built an extremeley successful business with it) and highly educated people creating absolutely nothing of value (my older cousin uses his Masters in chemical engineering and his Juris Doctorate to remain jobless and sponge off his mother).

I'd rather my grandfather than my cousin teach my kids any day of the week.

 

[southcitymom]

Hey SCM - she's in 7th, and like I said upthread, she's in an exceptionally good public school. If this school weren't an option, she be homeschooled, however I had to swing it.

Trust me, most public schools in our area(s) are beyond bad.

That's great to know - that she's learning about Religion.

I came from a private school background, so all this public school stuff is very new to me. We draw to a terrific middle and high school, but a bad elementary. Luckily, I have been able to get my son into a public charter school near us. If I couldn't have done that, he would still be in private school - but not everyone has that as an option.

 

[Karole28]

That's great to know - that she's learning about Religion.

I came from a private school background, so all this public school stuff is very new to me. We draw to a terrific middle and high school, but a bad elementary. Luckily, I have been able to get my son into a public charter school near us. If I couldn't have done that, he would still be in private school - but not everyone has that as an option.

It really is great, she's been enjoying it, and I'm enjoying it as well, as I have learned a few things along the way

 

[CyberLaw]

Angelmom, I really do not under stand your logic or lack thereof that I made an opposing position for the opposite side. If and when you try to explain, I will attempt to follow your logic and respond.

No one to date as yet to win the one Million dollars on the show, Are you smarter then a fifth grader. The fifth graders who I assume are taught in public schools are MUCH smarter then every adult on the show.

So much for the adults(non teachers) teaching children.

Parents can teach their kids what ever they think. Lets just say for example they do not agree that the earth is round, but flat. That defies reality and logic. But it is the parents belief and they teach their child according to what they believe. So they teach that the earth is flat, and this child is only taught what Mom and or Dad thinks, not reality.

Why do you think that lawyers spend 3 years in school after a post secondary education. Because education teaches a person to think, reason and use logic and reasoning. That would be higher education, not high school.

I propose a standard test of parents in the current subjects and grades they want to teach their child. Each year. This will be called the Home School Parent Proficiency Test. Proficiency is the key word.

The parents cannot teach what they do not know and a test each year will determine if a parent is intelligent enough and capable to actually teach a child. I for one feel that I can teach a child, but again, unless I take a test to know for sure, I am just guessing, as I am sure a lot of home school parents may think that they can teach, but this is what they think and may have no basis in reality.

I mean the home schooled parents graduated school how many years ago. Times have changed but the parents intelligence level has not.

Come on people, most Americans cannot even find Iraq on a map. They think that Canada is inhabited by Eskimos. They cannot even find different countries on a map. Why teach any History other then American history and why should any one know where different countries are if you are never going there. Teachers are required to teach according to state standards, home schooled parents are not.

I would like to look at transcripts of what grades the parents received in school. Failed Algebra. Now you think you can teach it. Trig, you never got the concept and failed math, but low and behold you now know enough to teach a subject that you do not under stand and failed twenty years ago. Reading at a level with low comprehension, now you choose to teach the child according to your limitations because you think you can do better.

Well I am sure you will go with your comfort level and skip Algebra and Trig.

I have met many people who can function in the job that they were trained in, but again in any type of occupation, you need to be competent in knowing your job and receiving an education and or training to do that job.

Heck, parenting is a job, that has no training and how many people fail to do that adequately, let alone teach a child.

Even with my high level of FORMAL education, it never occurred to me to teach the kids at home as I have no teaching certificate, have not passed tests to receive teaching credentials, and have never attended teachers college.

I leave the teaching to the teachers, as this is what they are trained to do, are educated, are proficient, have passed standard test and have their teaching credentials. They have prepared to do their job.

I just do not find parents capable enough to qualify to actually teach according to state standards and expectations.

Heck, a lot of parents cannot even understand the basics of computers and now they are expected to teach software to their kids. Please.......

You cannot teach what you do not know.........

 

[southcitymom]

Angelmom, I really do not under stand your logic or lack thereof that I made an opposing position for the opposite side. If and when you try to explain, I will attempt to follow your logic and respond.

.......

What I heard angelmom saying was that she has a teaching degree and would be "qualified" under your logic to teach, but she still didn't understand the question in your post. Hence - a teaching degree doesn't necessarily mean you're more qualified to teach your own kids than someone who doen't have such a degree.

Likewise, the only poster who actually answered your question was a Homeschooler who may or may not be "credentialed."

 

[Mygirlsadie]

I just saw a mom and a grandma who homeschool their daughter/grandaughter who is 13 years old. It was awesome to see the family so involved in her schooling and her life like that. She is already 2 grade levels ahead of her peers. I think this law should be done on a case by case basis.

 

[angelmom]

What I heard angelmom saying was that she has a teaching degree and would be "qualified" under your logic to teach, but she still didn't understand the question in your post. Hence - a teaching degree doesn't necessarily mean you're more qualified to teach your own kids than someone who doen't have such a degree.

Likewise, the only poster who actually answered your question was a Homeschooler who may or may not be "credentialed."

That is exactly what I was saying.

Also, your point that parents graduated a long time ago may be true. However, even with my teaching certificate, I graduated no more recently. In fact, my husband graduated much more recently than me (with a degree in English), and I can assure you that no one wants him teaching young children, especially him! :bang:

You might argue that I am required to continue my education to keep my certificate current. That is true. Would it surprise you that the requirements are the grand total of 40 hours (sometime in the last 15 years) or 2 college credits in the subject of my choice? Yes, I could go take 2 college level classes in golf, home decor, cooking, or underwater basket weaving for that matter, and they would count toward the continuing education credits needed to keep my certificate up to date.

Frightening, isn't it?

So while I do agree with you that there needs to be some sort of checks and balances system in the homeschooling community, I would most strenuously disagree that a teaching degree or certificate somehow makes a person more suitable to shape a child's mind than a highly motivated parent with good resources. Again, if you doubt me, click on the "Crimes in the News" page and scroll through until you vomit.

 

[Hiker]

Is the court saying that parents must be able to pass a test showing they have enough knowledge to be a teacher -or- is the court saying that a parent must have met all requirements for teacher licensure in that state? If they are simply saying parents must pass a basic knowledge test to be allowed to home school, I personally agree with the ruling.

I'm a retired child protective service worker and have seen many people home-schooling who were totally unfit for the task - people who could not do simple math, spell, or read themselves. I had to wonder how they got a high school diploma - the only requirement in this state to home school. The children of such parents often could not pass the mandatory standardized testing done every two years and they would attempt to refuse to put their children in school - usually on religious grounds. This would lead to them being reported by the Department of Education for educational neglect of children.

 

[Kim Ii]

We have non-credentialed teachers teaching core subjects here in our school district. It took several of us parents to notify our County Superintendent's office AND the California Department of Ed, before anyone would do anything about this. We also have a school district which claims to have higher than average test scores, but if truth be told, this scoring is based on stats as compared to other UNIFIED school districts. When you compare our test scores with those of the rest of the Country's, or with other high schools in like areas, our scores are somewhere in the middle of the norm, or even lower.

Some of our Resource students (Special Ed) do not have textbooks. Some of these students are using 12 year old history books! When we notified our County Superintendent's office of this fact, I was told by the Superintendent's Assistant that there was really nothing they could do about this, because our schools were not under-performing schools!

We have run the gamut from public education with our son, to private to homeschool. I do have to say that when we homeschooled, it was the best time for us! Our son was not reading by the time he should have entered the second grade, so by the end of his first grade year, I pulled him. I have never regretted doing this! I purchased the Hooked on Phonics program and every day, four plus hours daily, we read...and he loved it. He was reading in no time at all and was so pleased with himself! I knew in my heart that if our son did not start reading soon, which is so fundamental to learning, trying to teach him the other subjects, would be a moot issue.

We joined a homeschool group in our area (Tri-Valley Explorers), who were instrumental in educating me on the various ways to homeschool. I have to say that the homeschool moms I met were awesome. There was a huge group of families who met at the minimum, once a week, for socializing. They'd meet in the park here in town. There was something to do in this group every day of the week, if you chose to do that.

The children in these homeschooled families far excelled their peers in all given subject areas.

I would definitely not knock homeschooling unless you knew more about it. I see so much wasted time with our children in our public school system and if truth be told, we have run up against quite a few teachers who, for whatever reason, don't really have the passion for their work.

Also, anyone who really feels public education is the route to go, check into researching John Taylor Gatto and/or Charlotte Iserbyt! Charlotte Iserbyt revealed what she found out about our public school system when she served as the Director of Education in President Reagan's Administration. What she found and went public with, will make your hair stand on end.

I say Bravo! to all you homeschoolers on this Board! You sound absolutely awesome! Homeschooling is really hard work and I commend you for your strength and perserverance as you educate your children! :clap:

 

[Truly]

The Lord told me it's because the inner workings of the schools themselves are off balance and you can't make something balanced that the foundations are off kilter. Sort of like our Earth, how it's balanced in mid air rotating with nothing adhering and holding it into place in the Universe but the Word of God.

KoolLook, I find many of your posts quite difficult to decipher, but they are also always amusing. Here, I envision the lessons in astronomy and physics thrown in the wastebasket... the models of the solar system abandoned... the trips to the planetarium cancelled...

In place of that facinating field of study, I can imagine the class being shown a picture of a Harlem Globetrotter spinning a single basketball on the tip of his finger!

It's better than teaching that the earth is flat, I suppose! (Good post, CyberLaw.)

 

[JBean]

Angelmom, I really do not under stand your logic or lack thereof that I made an opposing position for the opposite side. If and when you try to explain, I will attempt to follow your logic and respond.

No one to date as yet to win the one Million dollars on the show, Are you smarter then a fifth grader. The fifth graders who I assume are taught in public schools are MUCH smarter then every adult on the show.

So much for the adults(non teachers) teaching children.

Parents can teach their kids what ever they think. Lets just say for example they do not agree that the earth is round, but flat. That defies reality and logic. But it is the parents belief and they teach their child according to what they believe. So they teach that the earth is flat, and this child is only taught what Mom and or Dad thinks, not reality.

Why do you think that lawyers spend 3 years in school after a post secondary education. Because education teaches a person to think, reason and use logic and reasoning. That would be higher education, not high school.

I propose a standard test of parents in the current subjects and grades they want to teach their child. Each year. This will be called the Home School Parent Proficiency Test. Proficiency is the key word.

The parents cannot teach what they do not know and a test each year will determine if a parent is intelligent enough and capable to actually teach a child. I for one feel that I can teach a child, but again, unless I take a test to know for sure, I am just guessing, as I am sure a lot of home school parents may think that they can teach, but this is what they think and may have no basis in reality.

I mean the home schooled parents graduated school how many years ago. Times have changed but the parents intelligence level has not.

Come on people, most Americans cannot even find Iraq on a map. They think that Canada is inhabited by Eskimos. They cannot even find different countries on a map. Why teach any History other then American history and why should any one know where different countries are if you are never going there. Teachers are required to teach according to state standards, home schooled parents are not.

I would like to look at transcripts of what grades the parents received in school. Failed Algebra. Now you think you can teach it. Trig, you never got the concept and failed math, but low and behold you now know enough to teach a subject that you do not under stand and failed twenty years ago. Reading at a level with low comprehension, now you choose to teach the child according to your limitations because you think you can do better.

Well I am sure you will go with your comfort level and skip Algebra and Trig.

I have met many people who can function in the job that they were trained in, but again in any type of occupation, you need to be competent in knowing your job and receiving an education and or training to do that job.

Heck, parenting is a job, that has no training and how many people fail to do that adequately, let alone teach a child.

Even with my high level of FORMAL education, it never occurred to me to teach the kids at home as I have no teaching certificate, have not passed tests to receive teaching credentials, and have never attended teachers college.

I leave the teaching to the teachers, as this is what they are trained to do, are educated, are proficient, have passed standard test and have their teaching credentials. They have prepared to do their job.

I just do not find parents capable enough to qualify to actually teach according to state standards and expectations.

Heck, a lot of parents cannot even understand the basics of computers and now they are expected to teach software to their kids. Please.......

You cannot teach what you do not know.........

It's just different for each parent. I never took algebra ll -trig in high school or college, yet I have tutored all my kids through it. I just read it ahead of them and figured it out as we went along. While I did not home school, I spent a lot of time with my kids at their books. I worked on the subjects I did not know and then taught them what I had learned.
I don't know what the difference is, but the parents around here that have home schooled are beyond capable, some with degrees some without. They are so impressive.
I have been more disappointed with the teachers in our district and local privates than with the parents. I am amazed that some of them went on to teach. Knowing your subject is one thing, but being able to pass it on to others in a way they can grasp it is a whole new ball game.
I got my kids out of classes with bad teachers so fast it would make your head spin. the first year one of my boys was in high school I thought they needed to deal with whomever they got for a class. I got over that crazy notion fast. It makes the differnce between opening a door or closing one in a certain subject if they have a lousy teacher and there are plenty of them.
I spent so much time teaching one of my boys one on one that I finally pulled him out of the school! I thought here I am paying tution and doing 95% of the teaching myself. What is wrong in this picture?

Just being called a teacher doesn't make them qualified to teach IMO, just as being a parent doesn't make them qualified either. but I don't think there is a standarized test to determine who can and who can't teach. just got to use your best sense and figure out what is best for your own child.

 

[MCDRAW]

Angelmom, I really do not under stand your logic or lack thereof that I made an opposing position for the opposite side. If and when you try to explain, I will attempt to follow your logic and respond.

No one to date as yet to win the one Million dollars on the show, Are you smarter then a fifth grader. The fifth graders who I assume are taught in public schools are MUCH smarter then every adult on the show.

So much for the adults(non teachers) teaching children.

Parents can teach their kids what ever they think. Lets just say for example they do not agree that the earth is round, but flat. That defies reality and logic. But it is the parents belief and they teach their child according to what they believe. So they teach that the earth is flat, and this child is only taught what Mom and or Dad thinks, not reality.

Why do you think that lawyers spend 3 years in school after a post secondary education. Because education teaches a person to think, reason and use logic and reasoning. That would be higher education, not high school.

I propose a standard test of parents in the current subjects and grades they want to teach their child. Each year. This will be called the Home School Parent Proficiency Test. Proficiency is the key word.

The parents cannot teach what they do not know and a test each year will determine if a parent is intelligent enough and capable to actually teach a child. I for one feel that I can teach a child, but again, unless I take a test to know for sure, I am just guessing, as I am sure a lot of home school parents may think that they can teach, but this is what they think and may have no basis in reality.

I mean the home schooled parents graduated school how many years ago. Times have changed but the parents intelligence level has not.

Come on people, most Americans cannot even find Iraq on a map. They think that Canada is inhabited by Eskimos. They cannot even find different countries on a map. Why teach any History other then American history and why should any one know where different countries are if you are never going there. Teachers are required to teach according to state standards, home schooled parents are not.

I would like to look at transcripts of what grades the parents received in school. Failed Algebra. Now you think you can teach it. Trig, you never got the concept and failed math, but low and behold you now know enough to teach a subject that you do not under stand and failed twenty years ago. Reading at a level with low comprehension, now you choose to teach the child according to your limitations because you think you can do better.

Well I am sure you will go with your comfort level and skip Algebra and Trig.

I have met many people who can function in the job that they were trained in, but again in any type of occupation, you need to be competent in knowing your job and receiving an education and or training to do that job.

Heck, parenting is a job, that has no training and how many people fail to do that adequately, let alone teach a child.

Even with my high level of FORMAL education, it never occurred to me to teach the kids at home as I have no teaching certificate, have not passed tests to receive teaching credentials, and have never attended teachers college.

I leave the teaching to the teachers, as this is what they are trained to do, are educated, are proficient, have passed standard test and have their teaching credentials. They have prepared to do their job.

I just do not find parents capable enough to qualify to actually teach according to state standards and expectations.

Heck, a lot of parents cannot even understand the basics of computers and now they are expected to teach software to their kids. Please.......

You cannot teach what you do not know.........

"Are you smarter than a fifth grader" is a television show. I highly suspect that they give those kids the questions and answers that they are going to be asked. I have a friend that teaches 5th grade in the public school system and she tells me most of those questions are not in her curriculum. Surely, you know that you can't believe everything you see on television.

 

[Glow]

Has anyone noticed that we here at WS have a thread on the "Legality of home schooling" per California law

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61485&page=1

as well as a comment by Cypros on the Fcat thread showing that the Colleges are now having to dummy down just to get the public schooled high school graduates enrolled and they are having to play catch up where the public school system has failed

see post # 16 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61838


and last of all, the thread where everyone apparently hates people who are not open minded

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61708

 

[sherri79]

That is exactly what I was saying.

Also, your point that parents graduated a long time ago may be true. However, even with my teaching certificate, I graduated no more recently. In fact, my husband graduated much more recently than me (with a degree in English), and I can assure you that no one wants him teaching young children, especially him! :bang:

You might argue that I am required to continue my education to keep my certificate current. That is true. Would it surprise you that the requirements are the grand total of 40 hours (sometime in the last 15 years) or 2 college credits in the subject of my choice? Yes, I could go take 2 college level classes in golf, home decor, cooking, or underwater basket weaving for that matter, and they would count toward the continuing education credits needed to keep my certificate up to date.

Frightening, isn't it?

So while I do agree with you that there needs to be some sort of checks and balances system in the homeschooling community, I would most strenuously disagree that a teaching degree or certificate somehow makes a person more suitable to shape a child's mind than a highly motivated parent with good resources. Again, if you doubt me, click on the "Crimes in the News" page and scroll through until you vomit.

i live in duval county Florida. i can only speak on what i have seen locally. a child that is home schooled must be tested at the end of each school year by a teacher approved of by the school board. parents must keep a portfolio of their child's work and have it checked by the teacher at this time.

i agree that some over sight is good but a teaching certificate is way over the line.